PS:T Mod for BGII

[BR³]

Hi all. First post on here, so go easy on the beginner

 

I've been a PS:T fan for a long time, but have extensive playing time with all of the Infinity engine games (more PST and BG series than IWD, as i didnt like the lack of NPC party members who actually had stories and personalities).

 

Anyway, to cut a long story short, i've recently been looking into the modding scene, and am planning on creating, if not a port of PS:T to the BG2 engine, then at least a 'tribute' to the game.

 

As i am completely a beginner at this, this will be a learning experience for me, so i'll be starting small and working my way up.

 

Following below is the order of things i plan to do, in the order i think i'll be capable (with assistance) of doing them. Any suggestions more than welcome I have already extracted the sounds and portraits for the characters, and created custom soundsets and portraits as appropriate.

 

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1) Create a 'snapshot savegame' at the beginning of BG2 with a party composed of 'as accurate as possible' PS:T NPC's

 

• Have done rudimentary testing using a 'Small Fire Elemental' avatar for Ignus, and a 'Demilich' avatar for Morte. Both seem to work well both in combat and spellcasting situations without glitches, and have no issues with spells that change avatar graphics (such as Stoneskin, Protection from Evil, et al) being cast on them. Only issue noted so far is that when the avatar is set as a Small Fire Elemental, the movement rate is lower than usual. This isnt hardcoded, as hasting increases the speed as appropriate given the base movement rate.

 

• Looking for ideas on how to implement an avatar of a Modron Cube, and the avatar of a Succubus (Fall from Grace) that has wings but can also be shown to carry weaponry.

 

• Looking for info on how to change the graphic that shows up for the character in the inventory. For example, the avatar 'Demilich' has no inventory graphic associated with it, so looking for ways to add these

 

• Looking for information on creating kits that allow me to control the weapon etc choices of the characters, to CUSTOM weapons. For instance, i want to allow Morte to use a 'teeth' weapon that can be upgraded with other 'teeth' as time goes on, but no other weaponry whatsoever usable.

 

• Looking for information on how to make non-removable weapons and armor, even via Remove Curse (such as Dak'kon's karach and Zerth armour, et al)

 

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2) Using the information learned above, create NPC's that can join, depart, and have meaningful dialogue.

 

• Looking for info on creating interactions between NPC's (both PS:T and BG2), and voicing reactions to reputation change and so forth.

 

• Information on using WeiDU to create NPC's that can be added to existing installations without major modification.

 

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3) Using everything learnt so far, create a quest involving PS:T that can be launched in a BG2 game

 

• Info on how to use an item to create a portal to another area (ala the gem from the Planar Prison quest).

 

• Info on using, populating, and adding meaningful quests to map files extracted from Planescape Torment, to create an entire new quest (aiming for 5-10 hours of gameplay.

 

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My end goal of all of this, is to have a quest where you can journey through some select areas from PS:T, doing entirely new quests designed from the ground up, and be able to add any of the PS:T NPC's in a 'BG2-ized' version to your party for travel throughout the game.

 

I know this is incredibly ambitious for a beginner, but i like a challenge, and would be very happy to accept any advice you experienced modders have to offer

 

Cheers,

 

Daniel.

[BigRob]

Well, looks like you got yourself one big project there.

 

PS:T / BG2 crossovers may get viewed with suspicion as some people like the story of PS:T to stay apart form BG2's, so fair warning that not everyone will be enamoured of the idea, good as PS:T was.

 

I think your biggest hurdle is going to be the avatars for Nordom and Fall-from-Grace, lots of attempts have been made to replicate them to no avail. You may need to do a lot of work even to convert existing BG2 avatars.

 

As for the rest of the information, there are loads of tutorials available both here and at other sites that cover most of the aspects you wish to know about. The best way to get help will be to read those tutorials and then, is you have specific questions, to ask for help with those. Even if you're having trouble with very basic things, most modders will be glad to help, but as you can appreciate, the scale of your current questions are kind of large.

[BR³]

PS:T / BG2 crossovers may get viewed with suspicion as some people like the story of PS:T to stay apart form BG2's, so fair warning that not everyone will be enamoured of the idea, good as PS:T was.

Hmmm, never run across that one yet... Seems somewhat strange given that there are numerous references to PS:T in BG2 as it is, but in the end i guess its all personal preference I was actually thinking of making the quests take place after the death/rapture/whatever of the Nameless One, and provide some 'closure' to what happened to the surviving party members after that point... i.e 'What happened to Dak'kon, FFG, etc, after TNO finally died?'... so it wouldnt be a case of bastardizing BG2 with PS:T content, more a case of providing an optional, all new, and hopefully fullfilling sidequest that provides some new material for fans

 

As a side question : is there a reason that there isnt a program like BG1TUTU, but for PS:T? Are the games too radically different? Just wondering after seeing the Dustman area in Riatavin in TDD, so obviously the graphics are able to be imported easily enough

[jcompton]

As a side question : is there a reason that there isnt a program like BG1TUTU, but for PS:T? Are the games too radically different?

 

Although each of the five Infinity games uses a somewhat-different variant of the engine than every other, PST's is "most different." It has scripting calls not found in any other engine, it "encourages" PC death rather than punishing it with a Game Over the way BG1/2 do, it has interactive stat boosts... very, very Different.

 

And as BigRob mentioned, your hardcore long-term PST fan is someone who believes that the game is a Glorious Whole Which Must Not Be Touched By Human Hands.

[BR³]

Glorious Whole Which Must Not Be Touched By Human Hands

™ ?

 

I'm a 'hardcore long-term PST fan' (i bought it the day it arrived at the local store), but i'm just ITCHING to get in there and do some work... the ending was the one bit of the game that left me feeling unfulfilled.

 

Still, in the end i want to do this as a fun project for my own enjoyment : if a segment of the community also get some enjoyment out of the end result, thats a happy bonus, but my end goal isnt to please every PS:T fan in existance or anything

[notasophist]

I'm a 'hardcore long-term PST fan' (i bought it the day it arrived at the local store), but i'm just ITCHING to get in there and do some work... the ending was the one bit of the game that left me feeling unfulfilled.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That statement just proved that you did not *get* the whole point of Planescape Torment.

[Grunker]

That's a big project Daniel, but you seem more determined than many I've seen who ended up finishing their project. Good luck,

 

Grunker

[jcompton]

That statement just proved that you did not *get* the whole point of Planescape Torment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

...and aside from the technical headaches, this is another big reason you don't see people undertake PST modding projects. It's the only game I can think of offhand where the core audience actively discourages enhancement*.

 

* "Because it's not enhancing, you feeb! The game is a Glorious Whole Which Must Not Be Touched By Human Hands!" - PST Fanboys

[Andyr]

Hi all. First post on here, so go easy on the beginner

 

Welcome to G3.

 

What's your username stand for, by the way?

 

First off, as has been mentioned you'll probably have a tough time convincing most Ps:T fans that the characters belong in BG2 in any form, but if you really want to it's your game...

 

1) Create a 'snapshot savegame' at the beginning of BG2 with a party composed of 'as accurate as possible' PS:T NPC's

 

The reason Ignus is slow as an elemental is base speed is tied to animation slot. There's ways to import Ps:T avatars to BG2 although IIRC there are issues with resizing and missing frames; you might want to ask Avenger, Seifer or Galactygon about it. Ditto for inventory graphics--I got some new ones to work once, but other times it seemed not to. About kits, there's a tutorial by Cam posted in the Tutorials forum here, look in the sticky index thread on that board. And non-removeable items are easy; there's an "undroppable" item flag you can use for it.

 

2) Using the information learned above, create NPC's that can join, depart, and have meaningful dialogue.

 

This bit's fairly simple--there's tutorials around here and PPG which are useful for learning how to code dialogues. I'd recommend pulling apart code from existing mods too, such as Mur'Neth here or Ghareth at PPG. Feel free to ask questions...

 

3) Using everything learnt so far, create a quest involving PS:T that can be launched in a BG2 game

 

Again, a good way to learn is to look at existing code. Unfinished Business and Sim's Quest Pack, both at PPG, contain examples of common code you might need for quests. My upcoming Eranon NPC mod, hosted here, contains code where you use an item to 'jump' between scenes in a manner similar to your description so that might be of use to you when it is released.

 

I know this is incredibly ambitious for a beginner, but i like a challenge, and would be very happy to accept any advice you experienced modders have to offer

 

I'd suggest it might be better to make a quest in the Planescape setting accessible from BG2, and then if you really wanted have an NPC from Ps:T available there to join (Ignus or Morte might be simplest from a graphical point of view). But yeah, as has been said you'll have to make it a convincing explanation of why they're there or a lot of players won't want to play it. Sticking them arbitrarily in Irenicus' dungeon doesn't make much sense.

 

Good luck...

[notasophist]

"Because it's not enhancing, you feeb! The game is a Glorious Whole Which Must Not Be Touched By Human Hands!" - PST Fanboys

 

I'd like to imagine that i'm not a fanboy. PST has its flaws, but the ending is something that definitely needs no improvement.

 

Then again, we all know JC's stance on PST...

[BR³]

What's your username stand for, by the way?

Long story.

 

My internet handle was 'Haplo' (from the Death Gate Cycle books) for years, until the first time i played BGII and came across the Blackrazor sword, which along with the Karach blade, is still my favourite RPG weapon of all time... So in most internet activity i have used 'Blackrazor' as my internet handle for the last 5 or 6 years.

 

As for BR³, the forum i am most active in is the local car audio forums here in New Zealand, and for some reason when i hit 10,000 posts there, i decided to change my handle from 'Blacrazor' to 'BR²' (because everyone just calls me 'BR' in posts, and i was wanting something that gave the impression of the next increment, if that makes any sense at all). 14,000 posts later on that same forum and it follows that my current handle is BR³

 

I hope that doesnt sound as nonsensical or silly as it seems when i type it out

 

BTW, thanks everyone for the advice. I appreciate that many PS:T fans wont understand my reasons for wanting to do this project, but i wish to try anyway.

 

For the record, i do understand the story of PS:T, but perhaps i view the game differently to most fans. The story of TNO's redemption etc, the main theme of the game, was never the facet that interested me most. I was much more interested in the NPC's and their stories, hence why i want to do this mod. I dont want to progress the story of TNO any more than it is : what i want to do, is provide some extended story, and perhaps some closure, for the NPC's, which as stated i found much more interesting.

 

Themes like :

• With the death of TNO, Dak'kons vows and bonds are broken... so what does he do with this newfound strength? Does he try and find normality? Does he use his newfound power to try and redeem himself for the loss of Shrakt'lor? etc?

• What the heck DID happen to Morte's body?

• Things like that

[BR³]

On a related, but different, issue : I'm trying to work out a story for Grace. Now, as i understand the Planescape setting, creatures like a Succubus, Solar, Astral Deva, etc, are creatures formed of pure beleif in a given ethos. For example, Succubi such as Grace are formed quite literally from the chaotic evil beleifs and tendancies of Primes.

 

Given that, would a creature created from beleif who then acts in a manner not consistant WITH that beleif, such as Grace or Trias, not undergo a change? Either to a state of simple non-existance, or to a relevant form that echoes their actions?

 

I simply got to thinking about this after playing The Darkest Day - one of the creatures you fight is Tartarus, a 'demon' who is actually a fallen Solar... so because of its change of beleif, it actually changed into a different creature altogether...

 

Any clarification or opinions welcome

[Andyr]

FFG wouldn't necessarily lose her Tanar'ri abilities--in sourcebooks and novels there are several examples of exemplars which stray from their alignments, and they do not necessarily become something else. It would. however, stop her from ascending to being a higher formof tanar'ri (since she'd need to become more Chaotic and Evil to become one). I suppose it is possible that some of her powers would fade with time, or lack of use.

 

It is possible her form would change to something else (for example Baalzebul, one of the Lords of the Nine, is a fallen Celestial) but not necessary.

[BR³]

OK, thanks for the info

 

Does anyone have any idea what sort of limits BG2 has on maximum number of creatures present in an area at one time? And also, maximum number of spell effects? Why i ask is, for one of the story sections i'm planning, i plan to create a battle from the Blood War using the Avernus location in Baator from PS:T, but i need to know what limit on numbers of Baatezu and Tanar'ri i have to deal with

[AnnabelleRose]

Got to say I have seen many "newbie" modders appear on the scene, state they want to make some HUGE MOD THAT WILL RULE ALL, then disappear when no one will do it for them.

 

This project gives me hope. Not just because I would enjoy it, but your base seems solid. I also like how others have added input and you... wait for it... actually listen. Seems harsh, but many new people who have modding dreams such as yours get offended, and hostile when suggestions are made.

 

Andyr and JCompton are two of the best coders around. Keep listening to them. Not only is there knowledge of the Infinity Engine great, but they know the game inside and out.

 

I look forward to seeing what becomes of this huge project. Just remember to stick with it, and pace yourself. This will take alot of work, but if it is finished, it will be wonderful.

 

Doubt I will be able to be of muc help to you, but feel free to ask and good luck!