BG1: Alternate PC backgrounds

[WizWom]

Let's face it, the Baldur's Gate series has so many holes in it, even a fantasy setting can't patch them. But it's fun to play, so I don't bother looking too carefully.

 

For purposes of the Baldur's Gate series, think of the demi-human races as Humans with Features, that is, they don't differ from humans in almost all ways. Elves and Dwarves don't live longer, No races have any mental differences.

 

One could build a CRPG which DID have tose features; Baldur's Gate isn't it. Talk to the people doing DLTCP, Classic Adventures or World Transition Project if you wnt to implement an idea like this. Trying to shoehorn AD&D sense into BG is like getting a catholic preist to make sense.

[Lemernis]

Trying to shoehorn AD&D sense into BG

 

But that's also kind of a fun challenge for those of us who both love the game and the Forgotten Realms.

[Lemernis]

I got the impression that the Temple Gorion rescued charname from was destroyed by the Harpers after they discovered the Temple was trying to bring back Bhaal by gathering his offspring for a sacrifice.

 

I would assume the attack by the Harpers was pretty much like any battle with people getting killed left and right and in the debacle charname was rescued by Gorion...not because he was someone special but because he was the only one he could rescue. It was also how Aliane got killed, not on purpose but just because it was a battle.

 

Sarevok was rescued in a similar fashion but just by the other side.

 

This sounds like how I remember the recounting of events in ToB, but without the text in front of me I can't say for sure. It'd be nice to see the text for both the letter left at Candlekep and the conversation with Gorion's apparition in the pocket plane.

[SixOfSpades]

Cooler heads seem to be prevailing here, but let me add a summation.

 

Sarevok:

Precious little information, even in UB material, is given about Sarevok's mother. Rieltar Anchev did indeed strangle his wife with a garotte, and Sarevok does remember her with something akin to fondness, but whether she was Sarevok's real mother or his adoptive mother is completely unspecified. Both scenarios can be justified.

She's his real mother: She married Rieltar, then was raped by Bhaal (perhaps damaging her permanently, as Sarevok never mentions any maternal siblings--a trait I believe is common to all Bhaalspawn). She gives birth to Sarevok, who is then stolen away (in early childhood) by agents of Bhaal. The mother is able to track the agents, however, and uses some of Rieltar's wealth to help finance the Harper's raid in the hope of rescuing her only child. The attack is successful, and mother & son are reunited.

She's his adoptive mother: Bhaal had sex with some other Human, and the child was taken, willingly or otherwise, to the Temple. Harpers attack, chaos reigns, one of the lesser Bhaalists snatches Sarevok away, escapes in the bedlam, and helps to graft him into the household of a wealthy man who is known to be Evil. (This 'lesser Bhaalist' did not marry Rieltar and bring young Sarevok along for the ride, as we know that Sarevok was concieved in adultery.)

 

Imoen:

Absolutely nothing is known about Imoen's mother. Given that Imoen is only 20 or so, her mother might very well still be alive, and an encounter with her (or her spirit) would give ToB some much-needed subplot. I for one would like it if "Gorion" in the Forest of Mir was actually telling the truth 50% of the time.

 

CHARNAME:

The prospect of Gorion and Alianna falling in love because one organization was trying to infiltrate the other makes sense, though it's more likely that Gorion was the secret agent, rather than the other way around: If she's preggers with the Dread Lord's kid, it's best to keep her home and send someone else. It's also a possibility that Gorion wasn't even a Harper at all at that point: He could have been some True-Neutral aligned Joe Schmoe, who fell in love with a Priestess of Bhaal. He really digs her, but she just keeps him hanging around because he's a bit of fun every now & then. She does the nasty with the Bhaalster, Gorion finds out, and the resulting feelings of revulsion and jealousy start turning Gorion towards Good, purely out of rebellion against the Evil being done. He begins to see the fetus as a symbol of possible innocence--he might also be clinging to the possibility that it's even his kid, not Bhaal's--and feels compelled to save it from the fate Alianna has planned. Using his inside knowledge of Alianna and her Temple, he helps the Harpers stage their assault, and, whether through planning or happenstance, manages to rescue the infant CHARNAME. At this point, Gorion could have been a Harper for years, or he might have just joined. When CHARNAME is about 4 years old, Ulraunt (perhaps influenced by a somewhat pressuring letter from Elminster) grudgingly allows Gorion and CHARNAME (but not Imoen, she must have arrive separately) to stay in Candlekeep.

 

 

As for Bhaal sowing his seeds prior to the Time of Troubles: The ToT is listed in the Roll of Years as DR 1358. Baldur's Gate 1 takes place in the summer of 1368--ten years later. Not even close to enough time for a Human to grow to early adulthood, let alone an Elf, let alone a Draconic grandchild. Bhaal must have been preparing for this millennia in advance . . . either that, or he was just a randy bugger. Probably from reading too much Greek mythology.

[NiGHTMARE]

Ed Greenwood, creator of the Forgotten Realms, has stated that the gods exist somewhat outside of the mortal timestream, so their actions don't really have to be chronological.

[WizWom]

Heh, I have no doubt that Bhaal spent years sowing his wild oats. Let's face it, being the God of Murder, even in a place where unjustified killing is as common as it seems to be in Faerun, has got to be pretty boring. Hang about your soul-throne, play skull-quette with a Baaztor occasionally, maybe hang with a Merilith for a few hours - generally, debauchery with demons and such gets old after a decade or two. So, what better way to liven up the idle centuries than to go and spawn a god-child somewhere. It was good enough for Zeus :-)

 

So, once he got the skinny on the Cyric/Mask cabal (and hey, maybe he was listening to Aulaundo's chanters, too) he was all set to really set his godly gonads in motion. I wonder what his pickup line would be... "Hey, baby, is this guy boring you? I'm the God of Murder." It worked for Zaphod Beeblebrox...

[Evilyn]

Ed Greenwood ... has stated that the gods exist somewhat outside of the mortal timestream, so their actions don't really have to be chronological.

But the "real world" is chronological, so unless CHARNAME and the other assorted Bhaalspawn spent their first "years" in some divine realm, the quote still doesn't account for the problem of their various ages in the "mortal realm." If the Time of Troubles was 10 years before BG1, the Bhaalspawn cannot be older than 10 if they were born in Faerun (as opposed to born in some divine realm).

[NiGHTMARE]

I don't think you quite understand what I mean: just before the Time of Troubles, Bhaal could have "gone back in time" (not really how it would work for a god, but not being gods I doubt we could adequately explain it ) to various points in history and done his thing.

 

BTW here are some of the relevant quotes:

 

BG1:

 

Alaundo's Letter:

 

In the crisis known as the Time of Troubles, when the Gods walked Faerun, Bhaal was also forced into a mortal shell. He was somehow forewarned of the death that awaited him during this time. For reasons unknown to me, he sought out women of every race and forced himself upon them.

 

Sarevok's diary:

 

He foresaw his coming death, and seeded his essence across the land.

 

 

SoA:

 

Conversation with Yoshimo:

 

My father is the dead god, Bhaal. He had premonitions of death before the Time of Troubles and arranged to have children.

 

Conversation with Cernd:

 

Bhaal walked the realm before the Time of Troubles, and made preparations for his coming demise.

 

Bhaal... 'seeded' the Realms with his children, born of every race and creed, that they might carry his legacy within them. I... am one such child.

 

One of the darkest was Bhaal, Lord of Murder. He knew what would happen, and the sly old bastard laid the groundwork for his future.

 

Know you the blitherings of Alaundo? Of the Time of Troubles, when gods walked alongside we pitiful mortals? A few gods knew of prophecies too, and took... certain steps.

 

Biography:

 

You are a product of the Time of Troubles, a cataclysmic period when the gods were made flesh and forced to walk the earth among their followers. One such deity foresaw both the event and his inevitable death because of it, and so took steps to effect his resurrection. This god strode the land before he was made to, and in his wake left a score of mortal progeny driven to conquer and rule.

 

 

ToB

 

Aliana:

 

I am your mother. I am Alianna, a disciple of the great Lord of Murder, a priestess of Bhaal. In the Time of Troubles did Bhaal, himself, come and whisper in mine ear.

 

I was to give birth to one of the Children. To you. I rose my arms up and hailed my Lord of Murder with great joy at my fate.

[Evilyn]

Well, of course he could go back 200 years and impregnate whoever he wanted. Except the result would have been born some months later and thus be in the region of 200 years old "today." And that doesn't mesh well with being born as a result of events 10 years ago.

 

As for the quotes, they seem to show that Bioware didn't really have their story fully thought out. Compare the ID 1+2 manuals dating "Drizzt's appearance" to different years all equidistant from the starting point of each game.

 

Anyway, I (or you) could explain it anyway I (we) wanted in my (our) PnP campaign(s), but it becomes harder with a series of CRPGs that doesn't make full sense between them.

[WizWom]

None of those quotes neccesarily are accurate...

 

Those are, mainly, just the understanding of the character, right?

 

Except, perhaps, the prophecy of Alaundo. And the spirit of the Preistess could probably be taken as accurate, as your Solar is unlikely to summon up the wrong mother, or let her lie.

[NiGHTMARE]

Well, of course he could go back 200 years and impregnate whoever he wanted. Except the result would have been born some months later and thus be in the region of 200 years old "today." And that doesn't mesh well with being born as a result of events 10 years ago.

You're thinking too much in terms of linear time. This is fantasy, and these are GODS we're talking about - they are omnipresent, are so intelligent we can't even begin to comprehend their level of understanding, they don't operate on a linear time frame like us mere mortals, etc. A mortal born over a thousand years before the event, i.e. Alaundo, knew it would happen, so it's hardly a stretch to think that a god might, too.

 

Think of it like this: if someone born 20 years ago invented a time machine, used it to go back to 1935, and killed Hitler, then Hitler would have died as a result of an event (i.e. the invention of a time machine) that wouldn't occur until 70 years later. If that future event had never occured, Hitler would still be alive.

 

As for the quotes, they seem to show that Bioware didn't really have their story fully thought out. Compare the ID 1+2 manuals dating "Drizzt's appearance" to different years all equidistant from the starting point of each game.

Actually, it shows that the series only once states the Bhaalspawn were conceived during the Time of Troubles. And of course, this single quote is from ToB.

 

All the other quotes either specifically state the Bhaalspawn were conceived before the ToT, or can be interpreted either way.

 

None of those quotes neccesarily are accurate...None of those quotes neccesarily are accurate...

The fact that Bhaal was somehow forewarned of his fate prior to the Time of Troubles seems pretty clear, though obviously none of the quotes mention precisely how many hours/days/weeks/months/years/decades/centuries it was. Personally, I suspect the Lord of Murder would possibly have payed attention to a prophecy that begins with "the Lord of Murder will perish"...

 

BTW it should be noted that, as the game mentions, Bhaal wasn't the only god to know about his fate before hand - Bane and Mystra also knew they would be killed prior to the ToT, and took the appropriate steps to continue their legacies (Iyachtu Xvim and Midnight respectively). There are rumours on various pnp FR boards that Leira knew she would be killed, too, and is due for a come back.

[Lemernis]

If I understand the BG series plot correctly, Bhaal's scheme is to unleash a massive war throughout Faerun, and in some way make use of all the metaphysical energy from it to resurrect himself. Apparently he envisions any one of a large number of his progeny initiating the war, and one of whom rises to ultimate power in that war, and for that powerful servant to raise him. To increase the odds of success he has many children. For this plan to work, and to coincide with the Baldur's Gate series timeline, he would have to seed as many children as he could during the Time of Troubles, or shortly before. They all have to be alive at the time that the big war happens, no?

[NiGHTMARE]

But the BG trilogy only occurs 10-12 years after the ToT, so if the conceptions did indeed occur during that time, all the Bhaalspawn would be at most just over 11 years old.

 

I'm really not sure why so many people prefer to trust a single quote from ToB over two lines from SoA that specifically state otherwise:

 

Bhaal walked the realm before the Time of Troubles, and made preparations for his coming demise.

 

This god strode the land before he was made to, and in his wake left a score of mortal progeny driven to conquer and rule.

[berelinde]

Given how many Bhaalspawn there actually are, Bhaal must have been one busy dude for them all to have been conceived during the Time of Troubles itself. NiGHTMARE, if you're wondering, I'm agreeing with you.

 

Besides, isn't the assumption made that the pc is about 20?

[NiGHTMARE]

Not to mention that the Avatar trilogy of novels already go into detail on what Bhaal was up to during the ToT, and it involved living up to his title, i.e. the Lord of Murder .