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Commentary on alignment changes: LN


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Here's the changes to Lawful Neutral, with a little more description and a little less jargon tomfoolery so that people not myself will have an easier time reading :)

 

I'm not trying to dissuade further discussion of the Lawful Good changes; please split if this is distracting :)

 

And when I second guess Kish for the reasoning behind some of these changes (sorry Kish :D ) please don't assume that I'm contending that Noblemen mustn't be Neutral Evil Innocents, I'm just noticing that Bioware copied a single creature file many, many times without bothing to update every field - thus, no thought at all went into some of their "choices".

  • acolyte3.cre = Watchknight Aabir - Neutral
    found in AR0900.are, the Temple of Helm in Athkatla Temple District
     
    bamng01.cre = Amnish Guard - Lawful Good
    found in AR0513.are (downstairs Delosar's Inn). Dialogue includes "I'm not responsible for whatever the Council does, can't you people get that through your head?"
     
    bamng02.cre = Amnish Guard - Lawful Good
    found in AR0513.are (downstairs Delosar's Inn). Dialogue includes telling Jaheira: "You! <hic> You're comin' wish me...to me room...or you're under arresht... <hic>" A clear case of Lawful Inebriated alignment
     
    bdact05.cre = Zaren - Neutral Evil
    found in AR0523.bcs (Bard stronghold version of Five Flagons Inn). An actor with class "Innocent" and "Nobleman" avatar.
     
    bdact07.cre = Balmitance - Neutral Evil
    unused, with class "Innocent" and "Nobleman" avatar.
     
    bdhigg01.cre = Higgold - Neutral Evil
    found in AR0522.bcs, AR0523.bcs, CUT31A.bcs (Bard stronghold version of Five Flagons Inn). Director of the play, with class "Innocent" and "Nobleman" avatar.
     
    bdprst01.cre = Shvanana - Lawful Evil
    found in CUT31A.bcs (unused?).
     
    bhelm.cre = Guardian Vottnar - Neutral Good
    found in AR0512.are (Temple in Bridge District with really goofy area script). Helmites shouldn't be Neutral Good.
     
    c6kngt2.cre = Shield Knight - Neutral
    unused
     
    crolus.cre = Crolus - Lawful Good
    found in AR1100.bcs (Umar Hills). Part of Ranger Cabin stronghold plot, Paladin with "Shapeshift: Black Bear" innate, dialogue includes "The Baron expects you. Turn your ears away from the jabbering of the squatters and seek his audience with all haste." This guy has issues.
     
    cutamgrd.cre = Monk - Neutral
    found in CUT241A.bcs (unused?). Monks must be lawful.
     
    fulord.cre = Lord Milsire Donderbeg - Neutral Evil
    found in AR0800.bcs (Graveyard District). Another Nobleman copy. Shows up for Lord De'Arnise's funeral, dialogue includes "My pleasure, my dear, though the honor to say such is mine. I hope I can aspire to gauge my integrity by comparison to your father's"
     
    gftown01.cre = Commoner - Chaotic Good
    found in AR1000.are (Manor District). Dialogue includes "Who's that you got there? Some old rustic from the rural areas? You aren't here begging for coin, are you? It's not allowed in this District."
     
    gmtown02.cre = Commoner - Neutral Good
    found in AR0020.are, AR0709.are, AR1000.are (Manor District). Dialogue includes "You, there! You look like the knightly sort! Are you in the army? Can I join through you?"
     
    helmbyr.cre = Acolyte Byron - Neutral
    found in AR0901.bcs, BHOISIG.dlg, CLCOTI01.dlg (Temple of Helm, Temple District). Assists <CHARNAME> in administering stronghold duties, loves to talk about duty and peorate chaos.
     
    helmkni1.cre = Shield Knight - Neutral
    found in AR0900.bcs, AR0901.bcs (Temple of Helm and Temple District). Dialogue includes "Remain ever vigilant, friend. The Law must prevail!"
     
    helmpr.cre = Sir Donalus - Neutral
    found in AR0900.are (Temple of Helm). Offers Temple services on behalf of Helmites.
     
    jugjer01.cre = Jermien - Neutral Good
    found in AR1103.are (House in the Umar Hills). Regional Cowled Wizard, won't lift a finger to assist investigating local murders but likes to order his daughter around.
     
    killmonk.cre = Monk - Neutral
    found in AMMGRD.bcs, AR5500.bcs (Amkethran Monastery area). Monks must be lawful.
     
    kpdomo01.cre = Major Domo - Neutral Evil
    found in AR1306.are (De'Arnise Keep stronghold plot). Yet another innocent nobleman copy. Dialogue indicates a lack of appreciation for draconian overtaxation.
     
    oisig.cre = High Watcher Oisig - Lawful Good
    unused, BHOISIG is the one used in the game.
     
    pirsal01.cre = Sailor - NONE
    found in AR1600.are (Brynnlaw). Another example of flawed logic making all pirates evil...hey wait a goshdarn minute!
     
    pirsal02.cre = Sailor - NONE
    found in AR1600.are (Brynnlaw). There is very little information to draw on for some of these creatures.
     
    plmetg01.cre = Metrich Footman - Lawful Good
    found in AR1105.bcs (Umar Hills Ranger Cabin stronghold plot).
     
    plmetg02.cre = Metrich Yeoman - Lawful Good
    found in AR1105.bcs (Umar Hills Ranger Cabin stronghold plot). Dialogue includes "You talk to Baron Metrich, and you be polite." Tough call here.
     
    prophelm.cre = Shield Knight - Neutral
    found in PROPHET.bcs (culmination of Unseeing Eye plot in Temple District).
     
    sctelwyn.cre = Guardian Telwyn - Neutral
    found in AR901.bcs (Temple of Helm in Temple District). Initiates the great Sir Sarles illithium caper for Neutral <CHARNAME>.
     
    taxcoll.cre = Tax Collector - Neutral Evil
    unused? Another innocent nobleman copy, though tax collectors are little loved :D .
     
    uddear03.cre = Finderlig - NONE
    found in AR2100.bcs, DWTALK1.bcs (the Underdark). Seems a decent fellow despite being Duergar.

Cam edit: Also check the alignment overview thread.

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Guest Guest_Felinoid_*

FYI, the guest above was me. I just forgot to put in my name. *headdesk* And yes, I have attempted to register, but I'm still waiting on the confirmation e-mail. In the meantime...

 

acolyte3 - Only a step away from his deity? Not a problem.

 

bdact05, bdact07, & bdhigg01 - Haven't played the bard stronghold yet either, so I don't know their personalities, but as described it sounds like you're basing the Neutrality on "Innocent" and the Lawful on "Nobleman". Which would be dubious at best and idiotic at worst. So what else is there to say that they're not evil?

 

bdprst01 - Unused and also no info on what kind of person? What's the point of even bothering? :)

 

crolus - Whoa. Issues or not, this guy is a paladin, possibly on a bad day.

 

fulord - He can't be lying? I'd put him at LE with a high CHA myself.

 

gftown01 - Someone can't be chaotic because they know the law? Chaotic doesn't mean you turn stupid around the authorities.

 

gmtown02 - Someone wants to join the army and suddenly they're the epitome of law? I don't think so.

 

helmpr - Again, not all Helmites have to be strictly LN.

 

plmetg01 & 02 - What makes you think they're not good? Just leave them be.

 

taxcoll - Changed solely to break the stereotype? Not buying it. Leave him be.

 

uddear03 - Seems decent =/= is decent. Evil can be very good-mannered. Not to mention that salesmen work hard on that. :) Without much proof of personality I'd put him at LE (standard for duergar).

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bdact05, bdact07, & bdhigg01 - Haven't played the bard stronghold yet either, so I don't know their personalities, but as described it sounds like you're basing the Neutrality on "Innocent" and the Lawful on "Nobleman". Which would be dubious at best and idiotic at worst. So what else is there to say that they're not evil?

What is there to say that they are?

 

It appears, from your post, that you believe a great deal of evidence is necessary to change an alignment coding from the original--even though Nythrun points out that some alignments in the original were not chosen at all. I'll expand that: Many, many alignments are completely random, and often insane, in the original. My favorite example (just because it's so very egregious) is that all the bandits who hold Jaheira hostage at part of the Jaheira romance are Lawful Good, but this kind of illogic is the rule, not the exception.

crolus - Whoa. Issues or not, this guy is a paladin,

Why do you believe that? Just because he's coded as one? There are hostile-on-sight hobgoblins (or is it kobolds?) who are coded as paladins. He is manifestly behaving in a fashion that would lead the PC to fail a paladin stronghold quest if the PC behaved similarly. He (at least one of) doesn't have Detect Evil, hasn't used it, or is simply more interested in promoting the nobleman's interests than in those of the Order. But you consider the fact that he's coded as a paladin enough to overwhelm all that? Clearly we're not on the same page.

fulord - He can't be lying?

He could be. Where's your evidence that he is, though? That the game says he's evil? I'd suggest you try plowing through all the alignment/class codings yourself, and see if, after hours of hobgoblin paladins and Lawful Good bandits, you're still inclined to give so much weight to Bioware's original alignment coding.

I'd put him at LE with a high CHA myself.

There's no evidence that he's evil.

Just leave them be.

This phrase--"Just leave them be"--is the core of our disagreement, I think. I'm posting here to clarify my viewpoint. Some alignments (such as Irenicus) have overwhelming evidence in one direction. Some other alignments have some evidence, but, you and some others believe, insufficient evidence to justify changing them.

 

For that matter, there are other extremely subjective issues involved here. How much weight the actual word of a developer has (I know SimDing0 would say little or none, and you appear unimpressed by David Gaider saying Balthazar is Lawful Good, but it's pretty compelling to me). How much weight AD&D racial alignment has. (From your words about Madulf, I'm guessing you'd say "a lot," while, considering the entire premise of the game is that a Child of Bhaal can be any alignment, I'd say "little, entirely secondary to actions in-game.") I'm willing to leave the decision of what gets changed in the fixpack up to CamDawg, though--just in case I didn't make it clear enough already--I think granting Bioware's random codings the kind of weight you are is a serious mistake. I don't envy him the job of arbitrating the Fixpack, especially considering what he's already said about being uncomfortable with his role.

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A couple of points:

  • Disagreements are fine; as Ding0 has said before 'conflict helps refine the solution.' However, make your points in a respectful manner.
  • Kish is absolutely correct in that the original alignment assignments are, at best, spotty. In some cases you can even track Bioware's copy-and-pasting (CG Irenicus is from a copy of Elminster, for example). While they serve as a good starting point for discussion I trust most of them as far as I can throw them.
  • Make alignment arguments based on how a creature behaves in game. This is the standard that Bio used for BG and it should be kept for BG2. The Keep majordomo may be running a demonic cult in his spare time, justifying his LE alignment, but he could also be running an adoption agency for orphaned, fluffy kittens. Limit the arguments to what occurs and is known within the game.
  • Should there be enough demand, it's conceivable that some of the alignment fixes may be farmed out to a new OBC component.
  • Absence of clarity for a new alignment assignment does not equal no change. If an original alignment selection is wrong, it should be changed even if we're bitterly divided between over which alignment it should be.

I'm willing to leave the decision of what gets changed in the fixpack up to CamDawg, though

Gah.

 

THEN I WILL TAKE OVER. EXCLAMATION MARK.

Double gah.

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What is there to say that they are?

 

It appears, from your post, that you believe a great deal of evidence is necessary to change an alignment coding from the original--even though Nythrun points out that some alignments in the original were not chosen at all. I'll expand that: Many, many alignments are completely random, and often insane, in the original. My favorite example (just because it's so very egregious) is that all the bandits who hold Jaheira hostage at part of the Jaheira romance are Lawful Good, but this kind of illogic is the rule, not the exception.

You're correct that I do believe that evidence is required to change an alignment. At the very least you need evidence to change it and still call it a fix rather than a tweak. Some may be random, but that doesn't mean they all are. On the whole, I'm against changing each and every little creature because one person or even a dozen people think it should be slightly different. The big stuff is good, the things that are clearly mistakes are good, but when you get into gray territory you've got to step back for a moment and think, "Could they be the alignment they're given?" If the answer is yes, I would say it's the opposite of a fix to change it from what the devs might very well have meant them to be.

 

 

Why do you believe that? Just because he's coded as one? There are hostile-on-sight hobgoblins (or is it kobolds?) who are coded as paladins. He is manifestly behaving in a fashion that would lead the PC to fail a paladin stronghold quest if the PC behaved similarly. He (at least one of) doesn't have Detect Evil, hasn't used it, or is simply more interested in promoting the nobleman's interests than in those of the Order. But you consider the fact that he's coded as a paladin enough to overwhelm all that? Clearly we're not on the same page.

I think that his LG alignment combined with being a paladin and not doing anything that would jeopardize either is enough to leave him as is. His remarks about the jabbering riffraff may be well-founded in his mind if he has not seen any evidence of corruption by the Baron. Would a paladin ask you to listen to what they believe are lies?

 

He could be. Where's your evidence that he is, though? That the game says he's evil? I'd suggest you try plowing through all the alignment/class codings yourself, and see if, after hours of hobgoblin paladins and Lawful Good bandits, you're still inclined to give so much weight to Bioware's original alignment coding.

Evidence is not required. All that is required is doubt. If there is doubt, on what is such a small creature in the grand scheme of the game, one cannot in good conscience call this necessary.

 

There's no evidence that he's evil.

There's no evidence that he's neutral either. In the absence of evidence, the best course is to leave it lie.

 

This phrase--"Just leave them be"--is the core of our disagreement, I think. I'm posting here to clarify my viewpoint. Some alignments (such as Irenicus) have overwhelming evidence in one direction. Some other alignments have some evidence, but, you and some others believe, insufficient evidence to justify changing them.

Insufficient is only part of it. Insufficient evidence with an important part can be fudged on the principle of getting it "most right". But when you have insufficient evidence AND it's not going to matter one whit, the risk of going against developer intent is too high IMO.

 

For that matter, there are other extremely subjective issues involved here. How much weight the actual word of a developer has (I know SimDing0 would say little or none, and you appear unimpressed by David Gaider saying Balthazar is Lawful Good, but it's pretty compelling to me).

Actually, I hadn't heard about that. My objection on that matter will be summarily withdrawn when I get to the appropriate thread.

 

How much weight AD&D racial alignment has. (From your words about Madulf, I'm guessing you'd say "a lot," while, considering the entire premise of the game is that a Child of Bhaal can be any alignment, I'd say "little, entirely secondary to actions in-game.")

It does matter a lot, though it can be changed. Again, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, I think it's best to go with default, whether it's Bioware default (intentional or not) or racial default.

 

I'm willing to leave the decision of what gets changed in the fixpack up to CamDawg, though--just in case I didn't make it clear enough already--I think granting Bioware's random codings the kind of weight you are is a serious mistake. I don't envy him the job of arbitrating the Fixpack, especially considering what he's already said about being uncomfortable with his role.

Actually, I don't grant it much weight at all. But I grant what seem like arbitrary decisions on the point of individuals even less. Changing an alignment because there is actual evidence that they couldn't be the alignment they're coded as is a great idea. I just don't want it muddied by changes that are based only on feel.

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The skinny for v2:

 

c6kngt2.cre = Shield Knight - Neutral

unused

oisig.cre = High Watcher Oisig - Lawful Good

unused, BHOISIG is the one used in the game.

taxcoll.cre = Tax Collector - Neutral Evil

unused? Another innocent nobleman copy, though tax collectors are little loved :)

crolus.cre = Crolus - Lawful Good

found in AR1100.bcs (Umar Hills). Part of Ranger Cabin stronghold plot, Paladin with "Shapeshift: Black Bear" innate, dialogue includes "The Baron expects you. Turn your ears away from the jabbering of the squatters and seek his audience with all haste." This guy has issues.

These are dropped. The first batch is unused and Crolus is... an odd case. It's conceivable he's being duped by the Baron (keep in mind that one of the advisers inside with the Baron did not know the full extent of what he was doing, nor did the NORH) and he's not among those that come to the Baron's defense and attack the party if/when the Baron is exposed. Contrast this with the Metrich footman and yeoman who are present when the Baron is exposed and attack you anyway.

 

acolyte3.cre = Watchknight Aabir - Neutral

found in AR0900.are, the Temple of Helm in Athkatla Temple District

helmbyr.cre = Acolyte Byron - Neutral

found in AR0901.bcs, BHOISIG.dlg, CLCOTI01.dlg (Temple of Helm, Temple District). Assists in administering stronghold duties, loves to talk about duty and peorate chaos.

helmkni1.cre = Shield Knight - Neutral

found in AR0900.bcs, AR0901.bcs (Temple of Helm and Temple District). Dialogue includes "Remain ever vigilant, friend. The Law must prevail!"

helmpr.cre = Sir Donalus - Neutral

found in AR0900.are (Temple of Helm). Offers Temple services on behalf of Helmites.

prophelm.cre = Shield Knight - Neutral

found in PROPHET.bcs (culmination of Unseeing Eye plot in Temple District).

sctelwyn.cre = Guardian Telwyn - Neutral

found in AR901.bcs (Temple of Helm in Temple District). Initiates the great Sir Sarles illithium caper for Neutral .

gftown01.cre = Commoner - Chaotic Good

found in AR1000.are (Manor District). Dialogue includes "Who's that you got there? Some old rustic from the rural areas? You aren't here begging for coin, are you? It's not allowed in this District."

gmtown02.cre = Commoner - Neutral Good

found in AR0020.are, AR0709.are, AR1000.are (Manor District). Dialogue includes "You, there! You look like the knightly sort! Are you in the army? Can I join through you?"

These are being changed to LN, but in the optional alignment component instead of in the core. For the first group LN is a better fit, but TN works for Helm just dandy in BG2 (hence the move). For the second batch, there's nothing particularly good about these commoners.

 

bamng01.cre = Amnish Guard - Lawful Good

found in AR0513.are (downstairs Delosar's Inn). Dialogue includes "I'm not responsible for whatever the Council does, can't you people get that through your head?"

bamng02.cre = Amnish Guard - Lawful Good

found in AR0513.are (downstairs Delosar's Inn). Dialogue includes telling Jaheira: "You! You're comin' wish me...to me room...or you're under arresht... " A clear case of Lawful Inebriated alignment

bdact05.cre = Zaren - Neutral Evil

found in AR0523.bcs (Bard stronghold version of Five Flagons Inn). An actor with class "Innocent" and "Nobleman" avatar.

bdact07.cre = Balmitance - Neutral Evil

unused, with class "Innocent" and "Nobleman" avatar.

bdhigg01.cre = Higgold - Neutral Evil

found in AR0522.bcs, AR0523.bcs, CUT31A.bcs (Bard stronghold version of Five Flagons Inn). Director of the play, with class "Innocent" and "Nobleman" avatar.

bdprst01.cre = Shvanana - Lawful Evil

found in CUT31A.bcs (unused?).

bhelm.cre = Guardian Vottnar - Neutral Good

found in AR0512.are (Temple in Bridge District with really goofy area script). Helmites shouldn't be Neutral Good.

cutamgrd.cre = Monk - Neutral

found in CUT241A.bcs (unused?). Monks must be lawful.

fulord.cre = Lord Milsire Donderbeg - Neutral Evil

found in AR0800.bcs (Graveyard District). Another Nobleman copy. Shows up for Lord De'Arnise's funeral, dialogue includes "My pleasure, my dear, though the honor to say such is mine. I hope I can aspire to gauge my integrity by comparison to your father's"

jugjer01.cre = Jermien - Neutral Good

found in AR1103.are (House in the Umar Hills). Regional Cowled Wizard, won't lift a finger to assist investigating local murders but likes to order his daughter around.

killmonk.cre = Monk - Neutral

found in AMMGRD.bcs, AR5500.bcs (Amkethran Monastery area). Monks must be lawful.

kpdomo01.cre = Major Domo - Neutral Evil

found in AR1306.are (De'Arnise Keep stronghold plot). Yet another innocent nobleman copy. Dialogue indicates a lack of appreciation for draconian overtaxation.

pirsal01.cre = Sailor - NONE

found in AR1600.are (Brynnlaw). Another example of flawed logic making all pirates evil...hey wait a goshdarn minute!

pirsal02.cre = Sailor - NONE

found in AR1600.are (Brynnlaw). There is very little information to draw on for some of these creatures.

plmetg01.cre = Metrich Footman - Lawful Good

found in AR1105.bcs (Umar Hills Ranger Cabin stronghold plot).

plmetg02.cre = Metrich Yeoman - Lawful Good

found in AR1105.bcs (Umar Hills Ranger Cabin stronghold plot). Dialogue includes "You talk to Baron Metrich, and you be polite." Tough call here.

uddear03.cre = Finderlig - NONE

found in AR2100.bcs, DWTALK1.bcs (the Underdark). Seems a decent fellow despite being Duergar.

As noted several times before, alignments should be based upon a creature's actions in the game and nothing else. In the absence of evil actions from the various noblemen, actors, and townsfolk listed here, LN is a good default alignment.

 

Specifically:

  • The actors above and Higgold are the only members of the FF troupe that are not already LN.
  • bdprst01 is used. It's Shavanna, the Turmish priestess to whom you can pay 1k gold for her to banish the effects of the curse while putting on the (bard stronghold) play. No more detail is given about her, but she does not behave in an evil fashion.
  • The two Baron Metrich flunkies, as noted above, still attack you when the Baron's full actions are exposed.
  • Finderlig is one of the three Duergars in the caravan in the Underdark. Of his two companions, Uder Morlin is also not assigned an alignment but Carlig (the actual merchant) is coded as TN. There's nothing here to suggest being evil.

I'm in the process of reviewing all of the alignments for v2, so you may see some further edits as things get poked and jiggered. Like anything in the Fixpack, feedback is appreciated, so don't think this is in any way final.

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Cam:

There were a lot of Cowled Wizards with no alignments or good alignments, which were generally changed wholesale to LE. Same with the pirates at Bynnlaw and the smugglers hiding at The Thumb's. Good, bad, or indifferent?

David Gaider:

The Cowled Wizard should be mostly Lawful... But LE? I don't like that idea. I have no idea who did that.

Cam:

Yeah, the majority of generic CWs had no alignment set at all--many of these were cutscene-only creatures, but not all of them. The rest of the generics are all LE. Of the non-generics, Perth the Adept (lone CW in Spellhold) is LE, Wanev (crazy, displaced Spellhold director) is TN, Tolgerias (gives Planar Sphere quest) is CG, Teos (gives mage stronghold quests) is TN, and the two 'highest members of the order' that appear to enforce the no-spellcasting rules (Khollynnus Paac and Zallanora) are both LE. Fixpack is more or less assigning all of these folks as LE; should we make changes to LN instead?

DG:

All the LE ones you can make LN, sure.

 

Tolgerias can stay CG, I think... I wrote him, but at the moment I really can't remember if he was Good or not.

 

Wanev is fine as TN.

 

I've got a follow-up in on Tolgerias atm.

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OK, so let's tack on these per Gaider's feedback:

 

cowenf02.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE
cowenf1.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally Lawful Evil
cowenf2.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE
cowenf3.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally Lawful Evil
cowenf4.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally Lawful Evil
cowld.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally NONE
cowled.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally Lawful Evil
cowled01.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally NONE
cscowl1.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally NONE
cscowl2.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally NONE
cscowl3.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally NONE
cscowl4.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally NONE
cscowl5.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally NONE
cscowl6.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally NONE
cscowl7.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally NONE
cscowl8.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally NONE
cscowl9.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally NONE
cucow1.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE
cucow2.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE
cucow3.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE
cuwiz1.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE
cuwiz2.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE
cuwiz3.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE
cuwiz4.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE
cuwiz5.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE
cuwiz6.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE
cuwizc.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE
cuwizsu.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE
mage16c.cre - Khollynnus Paac - originally Lawful Evil
mage18a.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally Lawful Evil
mage18z.cre - Zallanora - originally Lawful Evil
mgteos01.cre - Teos - originally True Neutral

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Oh damn. No holy smite for Zallanora, then?

 

Tolgerias can stay CG, I think... I wrote him, but at the moment I really can't remember if he was Good or not.

 

Yeah... the guy who hunts a man whose only fault was he was born in the wrong family, then withholds the contents of the mission before receiving a given word from a player character and finally gives an evil-overlord-like gloating speech in the Planar Sphere doesn't sound like Chaotic Good to me.

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