CamDawg Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 antenos.cre - Antenos - originally True Neutral aran.cre - Aran Linvail - originally True Neutral aran02.cre - Aran Linvail - originally True Neutral arntra02.cre - Trainee - originally NONE arntra06.cre - Shadow Thief - originally NONE beast.cre - Beastmaster - originally True Neutral bmugg1.cre - Mugger - originally True Neutral chtaz02.cre - Tamoko - originally Lawful Neutral copcust3.cre - Nobleman - originally NONE csiren.cre - Mage - originally Neutral Evil csjon.cre - Mage - originally Neutral Evil cujon.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Good cujon2.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Good cujon3.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Evil cujon4.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Evil dpjon01.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Good dpjon02.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Good dream2.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Neutral Good driren.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Good drjon.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Good elemep01.cre - Ooze Mephit - originally True Neutral elemep02.cre - Steam Mephit - originally True Neutral elemep03.cre - Salt Mephit - originally True Neutral elemep04.cre - Fire Mephit - originally True Neutral elemep05.cre - Magma Mephit - originally True Neutral elemep06.cre - Earth Mephit - originally True Neutral elemep07.cre - Mineral Mephit - originally True Neutral elemep08.cre - Dust Mephit - originally True Neutral ELEMHYDR.cre - Olhydra - originally True Neutral firamb02.cre - Gerg - originally NONE firban04.cre - Orc - originally Chaotic Neutral firban05.cre - Orc - originally Chaotic Neutral firorc02.cre - Derg the Orc - originally Chaotic Neutral fulady.cre - Lady Tandolan of Um - originally Lawful Neutral gorch.cre - Gorch - originally NONE gpfam1.cre - Pitch - originally True Neutral hellho01.cre - Hell Hound - originally True Neutral hellil01.cre - Hell Hound - originally True Neutral helljon.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Neutral Evil helljon2.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Neutral Evil hellslay.cre - Slayer - originally NONE hlmage.cre - Mage - originally True Neutral jadermin.cre - Dermin Courtierdale - originally Chaotic Neutral jaga3.cre - Nadinal - originally True Neutral jamage1.cre - Gracien - originally Chaotic Neutral jamage2.cre - Malacazar - originally Chaotic Neutral jarlaxle.cre - Jarlaxle - originally Lawful Evil jon1.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Good korcrazy.cre - Cleric - originally NONE kproen01.cre - Lord Roenall - originally Lawful Neutral legdor.cre - Legdoril - originally Chaotic Good lin.cre - Lin - originally NONE magetest.cre - Mage - originally True Neutral mgteos01.cre - Teos - originally True Neutral obsfir02.cre - Fire Mephit - originally True Neutral obsfir03.cre - Magma Mephit - originally True Neutral obsfir04.cre - Smoke Mephit - originally True Neutral obsfir05.cre - Hell Hound - originally True Neutral obsice02.cre - Ice Mephit - originally True Neutral pardru.cre - Sorsha - originally Lawful Evil pbhunt04.cre - Bounty Hunter - originally True Neutral pcapt02.cre - Prison Captain - originally True Neutral pcapt03.cre - Prison Captain - originally Lawful Neutral pcapt04.cre - Prison Captain - originally True Neutral pcapt05.cre - Prison Captain - originally True Neutral pcapt06.cre - Prison Captain - originally True Neutral pirmur01.cre - Galvena - originally Lawful Neutral pirmur02.cre - Assassin - originally Chaotic Neutral plysala.cre - Fire Salamander - originally True Neutral ppguard.cre - Pirate - originally Lawful Neutral ppireni1.cre - Coordinator - originally Chaotic Good ppireni2.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Good quint.cre - Quint Roenal - originally NONE reband04.cre - Bandit - originally True Neutral reband05.cre - Bandit - originally NONE recler02.cre - Cleric - originally True Neutral redilav.cre - Dilav - originally Lawful Neutral reeldar.cre - Eldarin - originally True Neutral remage02.cre - Slaver Wizard - originally True Neutral rengaa.cre - Rengaard - originally True Neutral sargrd07.cre - Fighter - originally Lawful Neutral sargrd08.cre - Fighter - originally Lawful Neutral sargrd10.cre - Fighter - originally Lawful Evil sargrd11.cre - Fighter - originally Lawful Evil sethle.cre - Sethle - originally Lawful Neutral sewdue01.cre - Duergar Sapper - originally Lawful Neutral sewdue02.cre - Duergar Sapper - originally Lawful Neutral seworo01.cre - Elite Orog - originally Lawful Neutral sewyag01.cre - Duergar Sapper - originally Lawful Neutral sewyag03.cre - Elite Orog - originally Lawful Neutral shadel.cre - Shade Lord - originally Neutral Good shadeld.cre - Shade Lord - originally Neutral Good shagbag.cre - Shagbag - originally Lawful Neutral sujon.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Good sujon2.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Good teltief1.cre - Tiefling - originally True Neutral terrece.cre - Terrece - originally Chaotic Good tobban01.cre - Sharik Nefal - originally True Neutral tobban02.cre - Orc Archer - originally Lawful Neutral tobban03.cre - Orc - originally Lawful Neutral tobban04.cre - Orog - originally Lawful Neutral tolger.cre - Tolgerias - originally Chaotic Good tolger2.cre - Tolgerias - originally Chaotic Good trcut05.cre - Lady Lilith Lurraxol - originally Lawful Evil trcut06.cre - Lord Skarmaen Alibakkar - originally True Neutral trfued01.cre - Lady Lilith Lurraxol - originally Lawful Evil trfued05.cre - Lord Skarmaen Alibakkar - originally True Neutral trskin03.cre - Rejiek Hidesman - originally Neutral Good trskin06.cre - Darsidian Moor - originally Lawful Neutral trskin3b.cre - Rejiek Hidesman - originally Neutral Good trskin6b.cre - Darsidian Moor - originally Lawful Neutral trskind2.cre - Darsidian Moor - originally Lawful Neutral yaga03.cre - Lieutenant Fighter - originally Lawful Evil Edit: Also check the alignment overview thread. 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Gorilym Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 I'll toss in a few cents here since nobody else has done so thus far. I think the case could be made for cres like Rejiek Hidesman and the Shade Lord being CE rather than NE. Rumar and Priss are supposedly CE but these two are not? Okaaay... "Skin dancing", whether literal in Rejiek's case or however the Shade Lord does it, (work with me here, it's sort of similar ) strikes me a rather more clear example of chaotic evil behaviour than infidelity. But maybe I have a weird moral compass or something. Also, Lord Roenall could well be LE rather than NE. Link to comment
CamDawg Posted November 15, 2006 Author Share Posted November 15, 2006 I'll toss in a few cents here since nobody else has done so thus far. Yes, please. We need to get the alignment discussions rolling again. Link to comment
BigRob Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I would certainly agree that Lord Roenall should be Lawful, rather than Neutral Evil, since he's sticking to the law pretty much all the way through his business with Nalia. Even in attacking the keep he's enforcing his rights as the technically legal owner of the estate. It's a fairly fine line between Neutral and Chaotic Evil sometimes, but from what I remember about the Shade Lord, he's into posession as a means to further his own ends and not purely for the love of taking people over (which Rijek seems to be in it for), so I'd lean towards making him NE myself, and making the Hidesman and the skin dancer CE. Link to comment
Nythrun Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Even in attacking the keep he's enforcing his rights as the technically legal owner of the estate. Other than the marriage between Isaea Roenal[l]? and Nalia, which doesn't happen, what claim does he have? Link to comment
CamDawg Posted November 16, 2006 Author Share Posted November 16, 2006 Well, Farthy thinks it's his rightful, lawful claim to the Keep. Link to comment
Salk Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 And I guess that believing one's actions comply to the law makes it enough for such person to be lawful... Link to comment
Gorilym Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Whether or not Roenall's claim to the keep is rightful or bogus is pretty much irrelevant here as I see it, and in truth it's probably neither of the two (Charname's "claim" is arguably every bit as dubious, if not more so) - there is no heir apparent and no real applicable precedent. The way he manipulates "tradition" to fit his own agenda to me definitely indicates a lawful evil character. (Actually, I think even the Bioware LN is a better fit than NE, if only barely) If the perceived crumminess of Roenall's claim warrants an NE alignment, I suggest that Charname should also have an NE alignment change if he / she claims the keep. It's a fairly fine line between Neutral and Chaotic Evil sometimes, but from what I remember about the Shade Lord, he's into posession as a means to further his own ends and not purely for the love of taking people over (which Rijek seems to be in it for), so I'd lean towards making him NE myself, and making the Hidesman and the skin dancer CE. Yes, but IIRC the Shade Lord's end goal is spreading chaos and mayhem for the sake of spreading chaos and mayhem? Eh, probably a matter of interpretation. Link to comment
CamDawg Posted November 16, 2006 Author Share Posted November 16, 2006 I should clarify what I meant--I believe Farthington Roenall behaves as he does because he believes his actions will have few to no legal repurcussions. If that were not the case, I do not think he would behave as he does. I don't think that's indicative of lawful behavior per se but I do think it's relevant. Link to comment
BigRob Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 This is where it gets tricky, what with personal interpretations and all. I think if he were NE, Lord Roenall would be trying all the options open to him, including, say, having Nalia assassinated by the Shadow Thieves, especially after it's obvious that CHARNAME is holding onto that keep. With Nalia not there to back CHARNAME's claim, the keep would default to him. Since the Shadow Thieves operate more or less with impunity in Amn, he'd have very little risk operating that way too. Just my interpretation, but he seems to be a traditionalist, selfish to be sure, but a blue-blooded member of the establishment, very concerned about honour and the "right" way of doing things (like Aunty Delcia). Other than the marriage between Isaea Roenal[l]? and Nalia, which doesn't happen, what claim does he have? Other than that? None at all, which is why he takes so poorly to the idea of CHARNAME having an equally tenuous claim on the keep. Of course, Nalia was betrothed to Isaea, which likely involves a formal contract between the de'Arnise and Roenall houses, but with Nalia now head of the family and not married the claim which should have been absolute is all muddied up. Yes, but IIRC the Shade Lord's end goal is spreading chaos and mayhem for the sake of spreading chaos and mayhem? Eh, probably a matter of interpretation. Was that the case? I don't remmeber that bit. Wanting to kill everyone for kicks is probably drifting into CE town. That's the problem with the alignment system, it's both very rigid and open to interpretation. Link to comment
Roana Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 This is where it gets tricky, what with personal interpretations and all. I think if he were NE, Lord Roenall would be trying all the options open to him, including, say, having Nalia assassinated by the Shadow Thieves, especially after it's obvious that CHARNAME is holding onto that keep. With Nalia not there to back CHARNAME's claim, the keep would default to him. Since the Shadow Thieves operate more or less with impunity in Amn, he'd have very little risk operating that way too. Just my interpretation, but he seems to be a traditionalist, selfish to be sure, but a blue-blooded member of the establishment, very concerned about honour and the "right" way of doing things (like Aunty Delcia). Other than the marriage between Isaea Roenal[l]? and Nalia, which doesn't happen, what claim does he have? Other than that? None at all, which is why he takes so poorly to the idea of CHARNAME having an equally tenuous claim on the keep. Of course, Nalia was betrothed to Isaea, which likely involves a formal contract between the de'Arnise and Roenall houses, but with Nalia now head of the family and not married the claim which should have been absolute is all muddied up. Yes, but IIRC the Shade Lord's end goal is spreading chaos and mayhem for the sake of spreading chaos and mayhem? Eh, probably a matter of interpretation. Was that the case? I don't remmeber that bit. Wanting to kill everyone for kicks is probably drifting into CE town. That's the problem with the alignment system, it's both very rigid and open to interpretation. Hello, I agree with all statements in this post from BigRob . Regards Roana Link to comment
yarpen Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Most of city guards (by PnP resources) should be neutral evil. Especially this guard who take a bribe fro slavers Link to comment
devSin Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 hellil01, magetest, shadeld are unused. Don't do plysala (it only exists for polymorph, and the alignment isn't preserved). Link to comment
CamDawg Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share Posted January 13, 2007 Alright, the v2 wrapup: bdock1.cre - Dockhand Ogre - originally NONE bdock2.cre - Dockhand Ogre - originally NONE The dockhand ogres were originally being assigned TN; moved here instead. csiren.cre - Mage - originally Neutral Evil csjon.cre - Mage - originally Neutral Evil hellil01.cre - Hell Hound - originally True Neutral helljon.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Neutral Evil helljon2.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Neutral Evil magetest.cre - Mage - originally True Neutral plysala.cre - Fire Salamander - originally True Neutral shadeld.cre - Shade Lord - originally Neutral Good plysala is used but irrelevant (it's a polymorph template) and the rest are either unused or already NE. kproen01.cre - Lord Roenall - originally Lawful Neutral shadel.cre - Shade Lord - originally Neutral Good trskin03.cre - Rejiek Hidesman - originally Neutral Good trskin06.cre - Darsidian Moor - originally Lawful Neutral trskin3b.cre - Rejiek Hidesman - originally Neutral Good trskin6b.cre - Darsidian Moor - originally Lawful Neutral trskind2.cre - Darsidian Moor - originally Lawful Neutral Lord Roenall is being changed to LE instead; Shade Lord and the various skin dancers are going to CE instead. antenos.cre - Antenos - originally True Neutral aran.cre - Aran Linvail - originally True Neutral aran02.cre - Aran Linvail - originally True Neutral arntra02.cre - Trainee - originally NONE arntra06.cre - Shadow Thief - originally NONE beast.cre - Beastmaster - originally True Neutral bmugg1.cre - Mugger - originally True Neutral chtaz02.cre - Tamoko - originally Lawful Neutral copcust3.cre - Nobleman - originally NONE cujon.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Good cujon2.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Good cujon3.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Evil cujon4.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Evil dpjon01.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Good dpjon02.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Good dream2.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Neutral Good driren.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Good drjon.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Good elemep01.cre - Ooze Mephit - originally True Neutral elemep02.cre - Steam Mephit - originally True Neutral elemep03.cre - Salt Mephit - originally True Neutral elemep04.cre - Fire Mephit - originally True Neutral elemep05.cre - Magma Mephit - originally True Neutral elemep06.cre - Earth Mephit - originally True Neutral elemep07.cre - Mineral Mephit - originally True Neutral elemep08.cre - Dust Mephit - originally True Neutral ELEMHYDR.cre - Olhydra - originally True Neutral firamb02.cre - Gerg - originally NONE firban04.cre - Orc - originally Chaotic Neutral firban05.cre - Orc - originally Chaotic Neutral firorc02.cre - Derg the Orc - originally Chaotic Neutral fulady.cre - Lady Tandolan of Um - originally Lawful Neutral gorch.cre - Gorch - originally NONE gpfam1.cre - Pitch - originally True Neutral hellho01.cre - Hell Hound - originally True Neutral hellslay.cre - Slayer - originally NONE hlmage.cre - Mage - originally True Neutral jadermin.cre - Dermin Courtierdale - originally Chaotic Neutral jaga3.cre - Nadinal - originally True Neutral jamage1.cre - Gracien - originally Chaotic Neutral jamage2.cre - Malacazar - originally Chaotic Neutral jarlaxle.cre - Jarlaxle - originally Lawful Evil jon1.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Good korcrazy.cre - Cleric - originally NONE legdor.cre - Legdoril - originally Chaotic Good lin.cre - Lin - originally NONE mgteos01.cre - Teos - originally True Neutral obsfir02.cre - Fire Mephit - originally True Neutral obsfir03.cre - Magma Mephit - originally True Neutral obsfir04.cre - Smoke Mephit - originally True Neutral obsfir05.cre - Hell Hound - originally True Neutral obsice02.cre - Ice Mephit - originally True Neutral pardru.cre - Sorsha - originally Lawful Evil pbhunt04.cre - Bounty Hunter - originally True Neutral pcapt02.cre - Prison Captain - originally True Neutral pcapt03.cre - Prison Captain - originally Lawful Neutral pcapt04.cre - Prison Captain - originally True Neutral pcapt05.cre - Prison Captain - originally True Neutral pcapt06.cre - Prison Captain - originally True Neutral pirmur01.cre - Galvena - originally Lawful Neutral pirmur02.cre - Assassin - originally Chaotic Neutral ppguard.cre - Pirate - originally Lawful Neutral ppireni1.cre - Coordinator - originally Chaotic Good ppireni2.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Good quint.cre - Quint Roenal - originally NONE reband04.cre - Bandit - originally True Neutral reband05.cre - Bandit - originally NONE recler02.cre - Cleric - originally True Neutral redilav.cre - Dilav - originally Lawful Neutral reeldar.cre - Eldarin - originally True Neutral remage02.cre - Slaver Wizard - originally True Neutral rengaa.cre - Rengaard - originally True Neutral sargrd07.cre - Fighter - originally Lawful Neutral sargrd08.cre - Fighter - originally Lawful Neutral sargrd10.cre - Fighter - originally Lawful Evil sargrd11.cre - Fighter - originally Lawful Evil sethle.cre - Sethle - originally Lawful Neutral sewdue01.cre - Duergar Sapper - originally Lawful Neutral sewdue02.cre - Duergar Sapper - originally Lawful Neutral seworo01.cre - Elite Orog - originally Lawful Neutral sewyag01.cre - Duergar Sapper - originally Lawful Neutral sewyag03.cre - Elite Orog - originally Lawful Neutral shagbag.cre - Shagbag - originally Lawful Neutral sujon.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Good sujon2.cre - Jon Irenicus - originally Chaotic Good teltief1.cre - Tiefling - originally True Neutral terrece.cre - Terrece - originally Chaotic Good tobban01.cre - Sharik Nefal - originally True Neutral tobban02.cre - Orc Archer - originally Lawful Neutral tobban03.cre - Orc - originally Lawful Neutral tobban04.cre - Orog - originally Lawful Neutral tolger.cre - Tolgerias - originally Chaotic Good tolger2.cre - Tolgerias - originally Chaotic Good trcut05.cre - Lady Lilith Lurraxol - originally Lawful Evil trcut06.cre - Lord Skarmaen Alibakkar - originally True Neutral trfued01.cre - Lady Lilith Lurraxol - originally Lawful Evil trfued05.cre - Lord Skarmaen Alibakkar - originally True Neutral yaga03.cre - Lieutenant Fighter - originally Lawful Evil These changes remain. One last note--the slaver guards are already coded as various flavors of evil. Feedback please. Link to comment
devSin Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 I'd be in favor of leaving Tamoko some flavor of neutral. She wasn't really evil in BG (not really), and she's the only one who shows up in both good and evil parties (since they wisely didn't use Tazok). Is canon Aran neutral evil? He acts fairly lawful in-game, no? Why is Quint evil? He may be standing around with the family crest up his ass, but all he really does is shoo away the peasants (the party in this case)? All those tobbans are unused (ZOMG ANOTHER BANDIT ENCOUNTER!!!). I restore both these and the bounty hunters (tobpar), but I've never really been happy with it (spawns from baldur25). Trying to shoehorn crap into ToB is *tough*. Why is fulady evil? She's a bit arrogant, but she's still comparatively friendly. Link to comment
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