What's up with armor descriptions?

[pro5]

I was suprised to find some "undocumented" AC modifiers in armor effects. Shouldn't these be in their description?

 

To save space, I'll give only 2 examples of chain mail and splint mail (all other armor types have different AC mods).

 

Chain Mail GTU description:

Chain mail is made of interlocking metal rings.  It is always worn over a layer of padded fabric or soft leather, in order to prevent chafing and lessen the impact of blows.  

STATISTICS:

Armor Class: 5
Weight: 40
Requires: 8 Strength
Not Usable By:
...

Actual AC modifiers:

Base AC: set to 5
AC bonus vs slashing: +2
AC penalty vs crushing: -2

 

Splint Mail GTU description:

Splint mail is a variant of banded mail, in which metal strips are applied vertically to a backing of chain, leather, or cloth, rather than horizontally as with banded mail.  Since the human body does not swivel in mid-torso as much as it flexes back to front, splint mail is more restrictive in battle. 

STATISTICS:

Armor Class: 4
Weight: 40
Requires: 8 Strength
Not Usable By:
...

Actual AC modifiers:

Base AC: set to 4
AC bonus vs piercing: +1
AC bonus vs crushing: +2
AC bonus vs missile: +1

[berelinde]

I would like to draw your attention to item 5 in DevSin's post on July 20.

 

http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=4152

 

Don't know if this answers your question.

[Wanderer]

I was suprised to find some "undocumented" AC modifiers in armor effects. Shouldn't these be in their description?

All except the missile attack adjustment are listed in the game manual. It is annoying that it isn't clearer in the item descriptions themselves.

[pro5]

I would like to draw your attention to item 5 in DevSin's post on July 20.

 

http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=4152

 

Don't know if this answers your question.

If you mean this:

Finding anything that does magical fire (or magical cold) damage is very rare. A lot of the descriptions claim to protect against some damage type, but it makes no difference because the damage type isn't ever used.

then it doesn't. DevSin is speaking of magical fire and cold damage types which are indeed unused in game, but crushing, missile, piercing and slashing most certainly are used.

 

All except the missile attack adjustment are listed in the game manual. It is annoying that it isn't clearer in the item descriptions themselves.

Are you speaking about game manual or AD&D rulebook? My manual doesn't mention this (but it's a localized version). I think game descriptions should contain such information, anyway.

[berelinde]

Hmmm. Got a pair of boots of avoidance in somebody or other's inventory. If I didn't sell them, I could try putting them on someone and have someone else fire arrows at them, with and without,, and look at the to-hit rolls vs. the damage taken. Of course, I'll have to lock everyone else in the party in a closet or something.

[pro5]

While I'm looking through this, couple issues found:

 

- CHAN08.ITM: GTU is erroniously changing AC in Chainmail +2 description from 3 to 4 (strref #34423).

- PLAT13.ITM: Gorgon Plate +4 stands out of the rest of Plate Mails, it grants +6 AC bonus vs Slashing. All other Plate Mails give +3 bonus. It really should either be mentioned in description, or the item changed to fit other armors.

 

I think the additional description text update for armors would make a good OBC component in Fixpack.

[Wanderer]

Are you speaking about game manual or AD&D rulebook? My manual doesn't mention this (but it's a localized version). I think game descriptions should contain such information, anyway.

The SoA game manual, p. 237 — the one I have has a table with penalties and bonuses that are applied to slashing, piercing, and bludgeoning attacks by leather, studded leather, chain, splint, plate and full plate.

 

The relevant information should appear in the character record screen, if you scroll down the list towards the right side; i.e. the cumulative effects w/r/t slashing, missile, etc.

 

Again, it would be handy to have this info posted in the item descriptions.

[devSin]

I'm not in favor of making too many changes here. There is such a thing as too much information, and there's no evidence that BioWare wanted to convey every microscopic detail in the descriptions.

[Smoketest]

Bioware didn't get specific in their descriptions because, as Gaider mentioned at least once on Bioware's forums, they had a word count budget to abide by. They wanted to do a lot of things, but ran out of time and budget for them, and of course it was time to move on to new games in order to make more money.

 

Locally, I've been working to add missing details to item descriptions, like armor bonuses/penalties versus various damage forms. Things like that are better than some generic notation that can be misleading if you're going for a certain build, such as someone who is buff versus missile attacks by virtue of their equipment alone.

 

While I agree the character record screen shouldn't be too cluttered with information (one already has to scroll quite a bit by the end of the game to read everything), I feel the textual descriptions should convey all potentially useful information.

[devSin]

But is it really worthwhile for the fixpack? It may be nice to have a list of all effects conveyed by the item, but at what point do we spend our time documenting each thing and dictate it mandatory?

 

I really don't think they would have bothered with the descriptions even were the limit higher.

[Smoketest]

Well, that's why they're Bioware, not the writers of the D&D rules. Thankfully NWN2 has gone gold, so my days of playing with Bioware's Finite engine may be numbered.

[devSin]

I always forget: Now that it's almost here, are you switching over because you think it's going to be that much better than NWN, or is it simply coming out at the right time for you to move on? Do you have any experience with the new toolset yet?

 

Of course, it's possible that all descriptions would have been a 10-page poem a la Rhyte's Last Arrow, so the final word count could be seen as a blessing.

[Wanderer]

I'm not in favor of making too many changes here. There is such a thing as too much information, and there's no evidence that BioWare wanted to convey every microscopic detail in the descriptions.

Good point.

[CamDawg]

Yeah, I have to agree with devSin here. I personally would like to see this information in the description, but they'll get fairly horrible if we start including all of the minutiae like this.

 

- CHAN08.ITM: GTU is erroniously changing AC in Chainmail +2 description from 3 to 4 (strref #34423).

- PLAT13.ITM: Gorgon Plate +4 stands out of the rest of Plate Mails, it grants +6 AC bonus vs Slashing. All other Plate Mails give +3 bonus. It really should either be mentioned in description, or the item changed to fit other armors.

chan08 is fixed; plat13 looks like a bug but could be intentional--thoughts, everyone?

[Gorilym]

plat13 looks like a bug but could be intentional--thoughts, everyone?

 

I doubt such a bonus would have made into the item by accident. (unless a copy can be traced, of course) If Gorgons are particularly resistant against slashing damage, then I think it's intentional.