We need a Tutu Cross-Mod facilitator

[berelinde]

Something along the lines of the Happy-Modder pack of BG2 Fixpack.

 

When Tutu mods were scarce, compatibility was no big deal, but there are more of them now.

 

I know I am not the only person out there who does not want to overwrite and/or be overwritten by anyone else's material.

 

What am I babbling about, this time?

 

Finite resources: Miloch's area reservation list is an imperfect solution, but it's better than nothing. No offense meant, but this would be better handled in a different environment than a public forum.

 

CRE's with either shared script or no assigned script. I'm talking about commoners and sleeping people, mostly. Here's the current situation: there are very few empty buildings, and new areas are a hassle. Easier to find a building with sleeping people in it, assign them a script, then destroy them, but only in the modded area. Problem is, with multiple copies of the same CRE, if I assign the CRE a script, then, say Eirik the Skald assigns them a different script, his assignment will overwrite mine and my quest, if it doesn't break, will certainly look funny. So they need to be assigned a common, shared script, so modders can happily extend the bottom and not worry about trashing someone else's mod.

 

And then there's NPC cross mod stuff...

[Miloch]

I agree. We should all be Super Happy Lucky Fun Tutu Modders. Can we fix all this stuff too while we're at it?

[berelinde]

I think it's time to talk to Macready and cmorgan. They've been dealing with area script assignments, and this seems like a logical next step.

 

That's a mighty big list. I'm not saying that fixing everything that needs fixing is not desirable, but I would rather tackle one thing at a time. I don't want to delay material because we haven't worked out a minor component.

 

Let's start small: identify CREs with no assigned script and give them a script. We can work forward from there.

 

There are 2 reasons for doing it this way: we can get the material out to people who need it faster, and it will be easier to isolate potential problems, if we keep a meticulous version history.

[jastey]

(sigh) I really wished I had more time to contribute to useful things like these.

 

Could we come to a general agreement (between all that are here and reading this), that could be turned into such a happy modder pack later on?

 

Such a modder pack is a lot of work, but an agreement is easy:

What I mean is the naming convention of scripts, dialog files and script names (death variables) to cres and areas.

 

Example: Area FW3344 has no script assigned in Tutu. Is it general agreement that an area script for this area would be "_AR3344" (using the "_ARXXXX" format that all other area scripts use)?

 

One of the cres berelinde mentioned is "_SLEEPMH.CRE".

Would it be general agreement that the script for this cre would be "_SLEEPMH.bcs", the death variable "_SLEEPMH" and the dialog file "_SLEEPMH.dlg" (if a dialog file would make sense)?

 

If we could find a community agreement on these naming conventions, different mods that add and use scripts to existing cres and areas could do so easily (using "COPY_EXISTING" and "BUT_ONLY_IF_IT_CHANGES") and add own script blocks without compatibility problems (with each other nor with such a happy tutu modder pack, once it gets released).

[Miloch]

Example: Area FW3344 has no script assigned in Tutu. Is it general agreement that an area script for this area would be "_AR3344" (using the "_ARXXXX" format that all other area scripts use)?

Macready has in fact already assigned them, according to this, and I believe that's the standard format. Though technically they should be called _FW#### for Tutu so as to avoid script inconsistency warnings (for example in DLTCEP). But that's also probably something Avenger could tweak easier within the tool.

One of the cres berelinde mentioned is "_SLEEPMH.CRE".

Would it be general agreement that the script for this cre would be "_SLEEPMH.bcs", the death variable "_SLEEPMH" and the dialog file "_SLEEPMH.dlg" (if a dialog file would make sense)?

Looks right to me.

 

Ironically, BG1UB fixes a lot of these sorts of things, though I don't think it goes so far as to assign scripts to CREs that don't have them. But it does assign some CREs correct dialogs, death variables, genders, missing IDS entries etc. So we should look at the presumed conversion and build off that perhaps.

[berelinde]

Example: Area FW3344 has no script assigned in Tutu. Is it general agreement that an area script for this area would be "_AR3344" (using the "_ARXXXX" format that all other area scripts use)?

Macready has in fact already assigned them, according to this, and I believe that's the standard format. Though technically they should be called _FW#### for Tutu so as to avoid script inconsistency warnings (for example in DLTCEP). But that's also probably something Avenger could tweak easier within the tool.

One of the cres berelinde mentioned is "_SLEEPMH.CRE".

Would it be general agreement that the script for this cre would be "_SLEEPMH.bcs", the death variable "_SLEEPMH" and the dialog file "_SLEEPMH.dlg" (if a dialog file would make sense)?

Looks right to me.

 

Ironically, BG1UB fixes a lot of these sorts of things, though I don't think it goes so far as to assign scripts to CREs that don't have them. But it does assign some CREs correct dialogs, death variables, genders, missing IDS entries etc. So we should look at the presumed conversion and build off that perhaps.

 

This is one of the reasons we're going to have to work together on this. I don't want to run into a situation where BG1UB is doing it one way and we're doing it a different way. It would be easy one thing to go ahead an assign everything a DV, dialog file, script file, etc, only to find that if someone goes and installs BG1UB everything now is assigned a mod-specific file/DV.

 

Until BG1UB is actually released, I don't want to rely on that for script assignments.

 

Also, it is important to note that while we may look forward to complete area script assignments in the next release of Easy Tutu, we do not yet have a release date. I am not relying on area scripts for my Gavin mod because there is a possibility that I might finish first. As for CRE script assignments, it will be nigh impossible for me to finish the Gavin mod without it in place, so this is a higher priority for me.

[jastey]

Macready has in fact already assigned them, according to this, and I believe that's the standard format. Though technically they should be called _FW#### for Tutu so as to avoid script inconsistency warnings (for example in DLTCEP).

Don't tell me Tutu and easyTutu differ on script names.

 

It was _ARXXXX for the existing scripts, as they were converted with the Tutu "_" prefix, at least that is how I understand it.

What script inconsistency warnings do you mean? Because it would mean reworking all existent Tutu-mods if the Tutu area script names get changed for newer Tutu releases (not only the then outdated script assignments for not-existant scripts).

[Grim Squeaker]

And then there's NPC cross mod stuff...

 

When Andyr, Bons and Ghrey released Mur'neth, Finch and Indira respectively I did offer them a Crossmod Banter Pack for Tutu. However they decided just to host the material inside their respective mods instead. There's a debate about it somewhere in the Crossmod forum.

[berelinde]

And then there's NPC cross mod stuff...

 

When Andyr, Bons and Ghrey released Mur'neth, Finch and Indira respectively I did offer them a Crossmod Banter Pack for Tutu. However they decided just to host the material inside their respective mods instead. There's a debate about it somewhere in the Crossmod forum.

 

When it was just the three NPC mods, it was manageable. I guess we'll have to see how it goes once there are more.

 

 

@Jastey: I am sure that Tutu and Easy Tutu use the same format.

[Miloch]

What script inconsistency warnings do you mean? Because it would mean reworking all existent Tutu-mods if the Tutu area script names get changed for newer Tutu releases (not only the then outdated script assignments for not-existant scripts).

In DLTCEP if you do an area check, you get, for example:

FW3100
Scriptname '_AR3100' isn't the same as the area name (possible problem)

As I said above, it would make more sense for Avenger to support a specific Tutu check format (thus ignoring these warnings) in DLTCEP than to change every script name/reference. I suspect the Tutu DLTCEP format wouldn't be tough at all (in fact, I may as well go over to its forum and suggest it right now...).

[jastey]

As I said above, it would make more sense for Avenger to support a specific Tutu check format

Now I understand, sorry I got that wrong above. Yes, that would make a lot of sense.

[cmorgan]

Macready has in fact already assigned them, according to this, and I believe that's the standard format.

The way to handle this for all Tutu mods and modders is already present, just not fully implemented.

The common code area of the G3 wikki http://dev.gibberlings3.net/index.php/Comm...Scripts_in_Tutu has the code for creating a standard library each mod can include.

 

/* Tutu Area Script Assignment Patching */
ACTION_IF FILE_EXISTS_IN_GAME ~FW0100.are~ THEN BEGIN
INCLUDE ~BG1NPC\LIB\tutu_area_script_assign.tph~
END

 

Each one of you folks ideas could be developed collaboratively on the Wikki as tph's.

 

This is important, as work done on EasyTutu is *not* included in Tutu v4; all of this work still will need to be included this way to make sure all installs work correctly. The BUT_ONLY_IF_IT_CHANGES means that the fix is only applied if the install needs it.

 

I am afraid that until June 17th or so, I am already oversubscribed, so cannot assist with much of this.

[Miloch]

Until BG1UB is actually released, I don't want to rely on that for script assignments.

Maybe not, but why reinvent the wheel. The ideal way to handle it would be to check to see if the script exists (and is assigned correctly). If not, create, assign and/or patch (as relevant - basically, what cmorgan said about the fix only being applied if needed probably applies here.). And if the code already exists in BG1UB, why not just steal leverage the code therefrom.

Also, it is important to note that while we may look forward to complete area script assignments in the next release of Easy Tutu, we do not yet have a release date. I am not relying on area scripts for my Gavin mod because there is a possibility that I might finish first.

Cool! So we can look forward to Gavin for Tutu by the end of the year? (Though perhaps this is based on an overly-optimistic expectation of an EasyTutu release sometime in the near future... )

[Grim Squeaker]

And then there's NPC cross mod stuff...

 

When Andyr, Bons and Ghrey released Mur'neth, Finch and Indira respectively I did offer them a Crossmod Banter Pack for Tutu. However they decided just to host the material inside their respective mods instead. There's a debate about it somewhere in the Crossmod forum.

 

When it was just the three NPC mods, it was manageable. I guess we'll have to see how it goes once there are more.

 

Well, the offer's still on the table so if there's a surge of Tutu NPCs I'm more than willing to package crossmod material for them.

[berelinde]

Been working on the original idea from the Tutu side on and off.

 

Right now, with a lot of help from igi, I've been slowly compiling a list of Tutu files for various installations.

 

Well, I've got listings of all the files in chitin.key and the override for the fullest installation of both games. Next time I do an installation, I'll probably do a BG/SoA one so I can compare them. To give you some idea of the number of files in the CHITIN.KEY, the list was 134 pages long, with 3 columns per page. Unfortunately, I don't even know what some of the extensions do (but will no doubt find out as I go).

 

Eventually, I'm going to have some kind of chart broken down into logical sections, e.g. ARE, ITM, CRE, BCS, DLG, STO, SPL, maybe even BAM, WAV, EFF etc, depending on how insane I feel like being.

 

Once this is done, it will be easier to start going through the list and finding which CREs have which DLG, BCS and DVs associated with them, and which are lacking, and which use shared resources. At that point, if anyone is interested in helping, it would just be looking things up in NI.

 

The point is that it takes time. I had originall hoped the project could be done fairly quickly, but this is not the case. Also, it's the kind of thing I do when I'm too tired to work on a mod, which means that I don't spend all that much time on it.

 

In the end, I hope to have something that modders can use as reference without having to go through the hassle of firing up NI, opening up each file individually, and trying to remember which mod did what to which CRE.

 

NI is a fabulous tool, but a lot of the time, I use it when a simple chart would be more convenient.