Is slavery legal in Amn?

[berelinde]

I know it is considered immoral by the vast majority of people in Athkatla and elsewhere, and I know that the slave-trading documents in and of themselves are not enough to condemn Isea Roenal, and the slaver stockade seems to be an accepted part of the slums, unlike, say, the planar sphere, which is viewed as something alien, which it is.

 

But then there is the grey area around these activities, and the fact that you can storm the slaver stockade, the guarded compound, or wrest ownership of the Copper Coronet away from its legal owner without incurring the just wrath of the Amnish guards. To give Higgold ownership of the playhouse at the Five Flagons, you need the deed. Hendrak doesn't require it for the CC.

 

So, is it just a Baldur's Gate thing, or is the slave trade in Amn something that enjoys technical legality but not the benefit of legal protection?

 

I'm curious because I need to know whether someone who opposes slavery and frees the slaves is on the side of legal as well as moral right.

[Kulyok]

When I did a research for Xan, I distinctly remember that slavery and slave trade were illegal, however, slaves(and, yeah, lotus too) were smuggled into the city using one of the major roads. Can't tell you more, I'm afraid.

[Kulyok]

I found all information in Lands of Intrigue, by the way. Here:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads

[CamDawg]

Illegal, though it's definitely going on. One of the ways you get Nalia back into your party after Isaea abducts her is by showing that Isaea is involved with the slave trade.

[berelinde]

Ah, that's a gold mine! Thanks!

[Eleima]

Well, I found my info in the "Forgotten Realms D&D Campaign Setting"

Slavery

Few of the human kingdoms and cities od the Heartlands permit slavery within their borders. Indentured servitude and serfdom are relatively common practices that approach the hopelessness and brutality of slavery in some lands, but even the most wretched serf or servant is considered a human being, not property.

This does not prevent slavers from other regions or races from seeking their quarry in these lands. Orcs and goblins sweep down from their mountain strongholds, carrying off unfortunates to brutal thralldom in their mines and fields. Pirates of the Inner Sea frequently sell their victims into captivity in the eastern lands of Mulhorand or Thay. Parties of Zhentarim slavers brazenly ply their trade almost anywhere in the Heartlands, deterred only by the most vigorous and aggressive defenses. Thayan enclaves in many of the more dangerous or lawless cities openly trade magic devices for slaves, and are rumored to deal in slaves secretly in cities where they are not allowed to do so openly.

Outside the Heartlands, slave-owning societies are much more common. Zhentil Keep and Mulmaster in the Moonsea make extensive use of slave labor. The societies of the eastern lands - Thay, Mulhorand, and Unther - are founded on the ceaseless toil of millions of state-owned and privately held slaves. In these lands, a free peasant or small common-born farmer simply does not exist. All lands are worked and all menial tasks performed by slaves. A strong, healthy slave costs between 50 and 100 gold pieces in lands where slavery is common.

(...)

Regardless of the conditions, most Heartlands humans find slavery extremely distasteful at the very least, and more than a few consider it an abomination in the sight of the gods.

Now, Amn isn't exactly the Western Heartlands, but just south of it. However, I think it is safe to presume that the attitude regarding slavery is that of the Heartlands. I've always believed, correct me if I'm wrong, that slavery was illegal in Amn, and that only considerable bribes permitted the activities in the Slums.

Another argument in favor of this is that slaves do not appear on the map of "Trade Routes and Resources" (same source), neither in the exports or imports.

It's not much of a news flash, I guess, but all I've read implies that slavery is illegal in Athkatla.

[Smoketest]

It's nice to have resources on Faerun's background, but the game makes it rather obvious that it's illegal in Athkatla, at least.

 

If it wasn't illegal, the document you can find in Isaea's place wouldn't be submissable evidence, the slavers wouldn't escort slaves into the Copper Coronet under the cover of darkness, the slavers wouldn't be hiding out of sight inside buildings, and there probably wouldn't be an experience/reputation reward for freeing slaves.

 

The sole guard in the Slums District is on the take. Detect Evil lights him up like a torch. If you're present at night for a slave transfer, he'll play his part. There are various corruptive influences in the city, so it's no surprise that slavery and drug trafficking (profitable enterprises) are going on.

 

The slaver documents aren't enough by themselves to convict Isaea of anything because you're trying to bring down a noble who is also in a position of authority (virtually untouchable), and he has all the important people fooled. You are required to bring three pieces of evidence not only to prove that Isaea is probably corrupt, but to also prove that you aren't just making things up. It is much like modern court cases where multiple pieces of evidence go a lot further in convicting someone than a single bit of evidence will.

 

You might already have figured this out, but I felt like typing it and sorting my own thoughts on the matter.

[berelinde]

And, like the Athkatlan authorities, I like having the preponderance of evidence before deciding the case.

 

It is good to be able to say with certainty that someone who opposes the slave trade is on both moral and legal high ground.

 

Thanks for weighing in.

 

One of these days, I really need to learn something about the Forgotten Realms.

[Eleima]

The sole guard in the Slums District is on the take. Detect Evil lights him up like a torch.

I do, however, remind you that, as the various alignements show, you can still be "evil" and "lawful" at the same time!

Just felt like nitpicking, sorry, it's been a while...

[Twani]

I would imagine that many guards in Athkala are evil- four of the council members are, after all, and I imagine that morally good types unfortunatly don't make it that high up in the system. Not that Amn is full of backstabbing you-know-what's, but I'm guessing that most of the guards are neutral, if not plain evil- mostly because the good probably quit in disgust or were laid off when they saw things such as the slavery going on and were forbidden from getting involved.

 

Slavery is illegal in Amn- however, if one of the noble/wealthy families are performing it, they're going to turn a blind eye to it. (Just like if someone tried to sell a wealthy heir of one of those families in to slavery, there would be a complete and total screeching meltdown about how awful and evil slavery is. Double-standards and all that.) Someone who goes to the guards and says "hey, slavery is happening here" probably isn't going to get much more then "k, we'll look in to it (I wonder how much of a bribe we can get?)", though rather then a "Gasp! Really? We're on it! Die, vile slavers!".

[berelinde]

Yeah, I already tried talking to that guard by the gates that accepts the "free sample", but I don't think you can provoke him.

[Elfen Lied]

Illegal, though it's definitely going on. One of the ways you get Nalia back into your party after Isaea abducts her is by showing that Isaea is involved with the slave trade.

 

thats what i figured, illigal but it happens. isnt one of the options for the thief guild inregard to importing slaves something along the lines of "i will not tolerate actions such as this, ill not stain this guild name"

 

slavery in Amn/BGII occurs mostly in the run down slums areas, where there are lesser people to enforce the rules. It occurs in the back room of the local pub.

[Smoketest]

The sole guard in the Slums District is on the take. Detect Evil lights him up like a torch.

I do, however, remind you that, as the various alignements show, you can still be "evil" and "lawful" at the same time!

Just felt like nitpicking, sorry, it's been a while...

 

D&D offers relativistic definitions of alignment and leaves the final decision up to DM interpretation, so there you go. I tend to ignore the lawful/chaotic component of alignment and focus on the good/evil portion instead, as that is what everything usually boils down to. I also usually reserve neutrality to animals, as people always lean toward good or evil unless they are in a vegetative state.

[Eleima]

D&D offers relativistic definitions of alignment and leaves the final decision up to DM interpretation, so there you go.

This is something I would tend to agree with, but...

I tend to ignore the lawful/chaotic component of alignment and focus on the good/evil portion instead, as that is what everything usually boils down to.

I disagree with this, as the lawful/chaotic is important as well. What about a paladin who has to be Lawful Good!? Isn't the "Lawful" aspect important then? Won't a paladin fall just as easily if he/she ignores the law? I think that both aspects are important, because the world isn't as simple as good and evil, black and white. But then again, that's just me.

I also usually reserve neutrality to animals, as people always lean toward good or evil unless they are in a vegetative state.

Well, then again, animals don't have the concept of good and evil, right or wrong, correct?

[berelinde]

PnP paladins must atone for a chaotic act, but forgiveness is relatively easy to obtain. PnP paladins who willfully commit an evil act fall, and only a truly monumental quest can redeem them, and then only with the DM's permission.

 

So, there is a difference between L/C and G/E even for paladins: if they give in to chaos, they're in trouble with their boss, but if they give in to evil, they're fooked.