AL|EN

That's the idea: give modders/maintainers the mesue to maintain the install order list and make sure that it's actually used: instead of explain install order and answer every question related to it just tell the players "use mod manager, it has correct install order". Now is the chance for it to come true. This is only an experimental/example list. If you mods need to account for the mods which aren't present on that list, name them so we can see full picture.

It was the first thing which I did: do not reinvent the wheel. But LOOT is designed only for fallout and skyrim and while it's fantastic tool, it can't be directly used for IE mods. Also the main difference: it's maintained by community because it's possible for those games and mods. For IE games, modders themselves must be involved, thus this discussion.

The overall goal of such 'online list' is to be included by any mod manager into some automated install routine, as a default one. The main benefit is that modder/maintainer can include all of his mods and fulfill all needs of his mods like cross-mod banters etc. Players are no longer require to read 5 or more readme files to determine all correct dependence. Players can look at for guidance and they can easy match SCS 1500 description component because '1500' it's displayed at the treeview of the mod components. But the goal is that they won't have to: PI/other mod manager will load such file from Github and sort all mods/components accordingly. Not all mods require component numbers. That's the point of *. If the mod occurs only once at such install order list, you can put "bg1re *" and you are done. The component numbers are only required for mods who's components are spitted between mods, like "RR". And even then, you fill components for only the 'one instance' of the mod, the second can use *. See RR as example.

Let's discuss install order online list which is maintained by the modders or current mod maintainers. There are currently 3 people who are trying to create publicly available optimal install order for many mods: Leonardo Watson - it's only for classic BGT but it can be partially used for BG2EE Roxanne - separate lists for BG1EE, BG2EE, EET, IWD1EE, PSTEE Subtledoctor - combined list for BG1EE, BG2EE, EET, IWD1EE The overall goal of such 'online list' is to be included by any mod manager into some automated install routine, as a default one. The main benefit is that modder/maintainer can include all of his mods and fulfill all needs of his mods like kit/class dependence, NPC cross-mod banters etc. General remarks: due to the dynamic nature, defining install order list by using mod local files would be ineffective for it's goal and a nightmare to manage history of changes is important so we know who change what GitHub is used by similar initiatives, with good results contributing into a GitHub-based solution can be done without storing mods there Goals: main game quests aren't broken NPC mods installed correctly for their cross-banters/interactions Kit mods adding kits before other NPC mods can relay on them Tweaks mods actually works for all previously added mod content UI tweak mods can correctly patch other UI-overwrite mods Non-goals: a perfect install order for unlimited amount of mods Format: the mod ID is tp2 filename without extension and 'setup-' prefix uses designated numbers of the components * (star) means all components of the particular mod, except any explicitly defined component from the same mod ID Example: # WARRING: This list is only an example for ongoing discussion, don't use it to define you install order! # Overwrite DragonspearUI++ * # Main jimfix 0 1 100 stratagems 1000 5900 6000 6010 6030 6040 spell_rev * iwdification * stratagems 1500 1510 wildmage * iwdification 60 hammers * UnofficialItemPack * item_rev * Divine_Remix * song_and_silence * RR 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Faiths_and_Powers * TomeAndBlood * A7-GolemConstruction * A7-ChaosSorcerer * might_and_guile * IHateUndead * willowisp * cdtweaks * Divine_Remix 1000 AnimalCompanions * shadowadept * sword_and_fist * refinements * scales_of_balance * stratagems * jimfix 2 3 4 5 400 RR * atweaks * scales_of_balance 180 klatu * jimfix * # it will install remaing 201 202 203 204 205 300 components EEUITweaks * # Portiats ppe * thepicturestandard * Workflow: list is read from top to the bottom modders/maintainers are added to the repository as collaborators modders/maintainers can make changes to the repository modders/maintainers are adding/changing only their own mods minimum amount of collaboration and caution is required Features: easy and straightforward solution for players (read) and mod managers (download and apply) easy way to contribute via web interface: you simply choose file, click edit and that's it it has history of changes, everyone will know who change what placing NPC mods in order to fulfill all cross-mod banters/etc is very easy for certain games like IWD1EE, PSTEE, it will be very small Disadvantages: having to manage separate lists for different games for certain games like BG2EE or EET, it will be still a big one placing UI/Portrait/Sounds mods is not straightforward because there are no 'sections/groups' at such list I've added sections as comments I don't want to assume that such list could be easy maintained by modder/maintainer so I would like to hear from you about: 1. As a modder/maintainer, how do feel about contributing into such list? 2. Which things makes you don't want to contribute to such list? Please share you feedback, I agree that there are many difficult aspect of the install order but "done is better than perfect".

@Nathan82It depends, which one of the 'old mods' do you have on you mind? It's best to compate mod's tp2 filename withe the same modname/modname.tp2.patch - if you can't find it, means fixpack dosn't have fixes for this mod, if you can, check and compare VERSION > if the VERSION from fixpack is older, then you don't need it.

@Nathan82 The BWS is outdated and not maintained anymore, please no longer use it. The BWFixpack from BigWorldSetup/BigWorldSetup-Fixpack also outdated and not maintained anymore. I've updated description at the Github so hopefully no one will use it anymore. You don't need any 'fixpack' for SCS. Please re-download SCS latest version again, extract it and use it for install process. The Ascension64/TobEx/tree/master/WeiDU/TobEx/TobEx_redist dosen't contain necessary files, you need to wait for SHS to be online again.

@Mike1072 This is simply not true. The tedious, repetitive and unnecessary tasks for IRR/SRR installation are valid regardless of install tool! Anyone who did it more than once can see it. Please turn off the 'anything which AL|EN says == it's for his install tool' logic condition. Nobody is talking about releasing 'without permission', thus my request to allow him to do it. For who? Any 'fixes' from SRR/IRR could be transferred into SR/IR by maintainer. Complete mod packages for SRR/IRR would take of the maintenance burden from Bartimaeus and it would avoid tedious and unnecessary work for players, who like me, will always prefer Bartimaeus version. Hi didn't ask? Maybe he was afraid of even touching this sensitive topic, given the 'copyright atmosphere'? Giving up the reasons, now we at last know and I'm glad that I touched this topic. I will gladly stary out of this when it will no longer the case. I just need to know if there is a will to solve all of this.

@Greenhorn If you are talking aobut this: then it's only a matter of how IPB Forum software treat single download 'pack' with multiple files inside.

Glad that you install went fine this time. BWFixpack - where did you get this one? BG2 Fixpack v13 vs github v11 confusion - the 'v11' which you see at the github is not the version information. All Gibberlings3 mods has the same version no matter if you download them from the site or from the 'releases tab: https://github.com/Gibberlings3/BG2-Fixpack/releases ToBEx_beta0026 - it has bugs, use ToBEx_beta0025

@subtledoctor Sure, I respect what he currently do. But it seems that decision regarding distribution was not made entire by him. It more of an site admins decision. So I'm challenging this decision now. @Mike1072 Please allow Bartimaeus to create full packages of the SRR and IRR mods which will contain his creative work.

@Edvin69 The authors of Tactics or even recent BG2EE-compatible version eetact2 are inactive for long time. I doubt that you will get any answers from them.

Using the same setup: 1. I can reproduce error from the first post, for component 6030. Using workaround fixed it. 2. I cannot reproduce errors from second post, for for components 6510, 6540, 6590, 8180: @Nathan82 Please try to install those components using clean BG2 + ToBEx + BG2Fixpack.

No, this is good solution. My thoughts was shifted to: if the translators can't update online readme, just forget about it and leave online English translation as the only one. So local translated readmes would be preferable. But I guess it's up to modder. I see that the best solution would be to simply threat ini Readme as a improved version of the weidu README and display the unique results from both of them. Let's see what I can do. BTW: Flags are very nice thing.

Sure, SR/IR are not your mods. You don't claim that they are. But all of the 'incremental' work is yours, even if it's incremental. If it's not 'you' work, then how it comes to exist in the first place? It's you who made it happen and available for players, not some fairy. Incremental work has the same value as making original work. This also doesn't mean that you claiming that you are the only author of the work, right? Mike1072 will to preserve Demi's work is totally understandable and I agree that original SR and IR mods should not contains other people "creative" changes. But this doesn't mean that you "creative" changes cannot be released as separate mod. Yes, Demi is the author, nobody claim otherwise. By releasing a separate mod you don't claim that you are the author of the whole mod, right? Releasing a separate mod which would require SR/IR main components seems like a thing. Except that (based on you own words) it doesn't work, due to technical differences of the implementation (which IMHO you mod does it better). Not only it would be time consuming, ineffective but it could also lead to errors. My experience with Fixpack says the same thing: creating patches for mods is ineffective and it should no longer be done. And extracting process needs to be repeated every time! Clearly that's not a solution which you want to give for players. It seems that the only one way (which makes sense from the time/mistakes perspective) to fixing mod bugs/having own creative work and at the same time, avoiding repetition of the Fixpack nightmare, is releasing full mod package. So that's the way how it should be done. And such way should be acceptable under the condition that all previous authorship information regarding original work is preserved. As a player, I'm as angry as subtledoctor when it comes to fixing SR/IR bugs via separate mod/fixpack. I just want to have a separate mod, which I can relay to be bug-less, up to date, maintained, with easy and clear install order and also available for other mods to react to it. So please simply release separate mod with different tp2 name as full package and end this nightmare.

@Bartimaeus One thing at the time... I have the impression that your post is written as if you were walking on a swamp or a minefield - one wrong step and an irreversible tragedy will happen. You start with the doubt "can it be solved" and finally you state that "it's better to keep it that way". After reading something like that, it's difficult to continue this topic. But let's try. You want to avoid any issue of "replacing" the original mod, I get it. Is this is the main reason of the terrible distribution model of SRR? Because you way of achieving this goal is odd: use the same site and forum as original mod, use the same tp2 filename and partially the same mod display name, finally make players ( who actually enjoy you vision) life miserable. For me it looks like opposite of the goal. If you really fear about this unproved assumption that 'someone can confuse this mod with the original if I make full package' then there is much better way to prevent this. The situation with SRR and IRR is becoming yet another 'Fixpack nightmare' and I don't want it becomes a 'standard practice'. Whatever it takes. If the "rules" prevents this to happen then those rules are acting against players and progres/mod improvements so they need to be challenged. Whatever it takes. Somehow I do not see Demi returning after 3 years of absence, being angry and screaming at you only because while fixing his mod bugs, you created something on you own, which you would like to share with the players. My suggestion for you is: release mod under separate mod/vision, using different display name and tp2 filename, keeping all necessary authorship information etc. Then there will be no place for confusion of which mod players use. It was you goal, right? Is there any better way to do it?

@Bartimaeus I guess that we will never see the end of this nonsense with the same tp2 filename and 'extract and overwrite' installation?

I've added full suport for 'weidu tp2 README keyword', including localized ones. I've check and 'weidu tp2 README keyword' doesn't support url's - if you will put a link to the website, you will get error that 'File don't exist'. By modders request, I want to add support for "online readme links". But there are some things to discuss: 1. When you use ini readme, do you expect that %LANGUAGE% variable will work? Or you would simply put several links with different language as part of the link into ini Readme? 2. What if there is tp2 README and ini README? Which one should have precedence? What if the tp2 README has localized entry's and the ini README doesn't? If the ini readme will take precedence, the local localized entry's won't be displayed. Combining values from both of those keywords under some kind of condition would be complicated. Should I simply display all of them, local ones and links to remote ones? 3. What if modder misinterpret the 'ini Readme keyword' and use it to provide relative paths to local readme files? 4. The localized readme file comes from translators, whey won't be able to update the localized readme version because they don't have access to the hosting site. So the online localized readme will be outdated and it it's updating would be up to modder/maintainer, not the translator itself. This doesn't appeal to me, because it means more work for mod author/maintainers. 5. The changelog-part of the localized readme is outdated 90% of the time.

Which one?

@Nathan82 Just extract zip archive, move everything from WeiDU-FileChangelog-master directory into game directory and simply run it. It will ask you for a filename, outcome will be inside <GameDir>\WeiDU-FileChangelog\

@subtledoctor Checking local file is fine, but don't check game directory, use "Documents" directory so it won't be lost when game dir will be restored from backup. Even better: download such file (use wget) if the user doesn't have it.

The friend told me that somethings is cooking up but it's too early to discuss about it.

Yep, it makes me angry too! Ii's the same story with 'setup-modname.exe' in order to modify selected mod components. Lucky, when you have one zip file for all platforms, it doesn't need os prefix.

@lynx But that's also require to open console, and type "weidu path/to/tp2" - the whole point it so avoid this kind of stuff because it's unnecessary. Currently, the only way to support "Double-click > install mod" is via .desktop files, assuming that weidu is installed globally. If you don't care, fine but it's not a bad thing, isn't it?

@Angel You are talking about rpm package for weidu distribution. It's different thing than mod package. For this, you need to ask @Wisp , he can extend the weidu build process and add generation of the rpm/apt package + publish it into various package managers. But let's just assume that such package already exist, a player installed clean version of Ubuntu, then use apt install weidu, he download 3 mods (Tweaks, SCS, UB) and extract them into game directory. How he suppose to initiate the installation of the first mod? How he suppose to initiate the uninstallation of the mod?

@AngelHow do you expect for a mod manager to install rpm/apt package into some custom directory? I'm not familiar with all those Linux package manages to be able to create prof-of-concept. for this I need help form one of the linux master.