MUCH praise and minor feedback

[Qwinn]

Hrmmm, alright, thanks Domi. I'm -very- much enjoying Dynaheir's romance so far and I'm only a handful of lovetalks into it (now that I finally got it going, heh). I'm very open to the idea of romancing her again on my 3rd playthrough and bringing Edwin along then... can't justify it on this trip as I'm playing a paladin and no way would he tolerate Edwin. And who knows, maybe on the 3rd playthrough I'll be sick of Imoen and bring Safana along too. Probably won't romance Shar-teel... really, just by bringing even one evil character along I'll be breaking new ground, heh, I generally don't enjoy the whole roleplaying evil thing.

 

Qwinn

[Domi]

Oh, I am sure you will find the party dynamic that works for you. It's just liberating to sometimes play against the 'usual' set of characters or style . Evil characters are more crazy than evil in BG1 anyways. Have fun!

[berelinde]

Yeah, it's fun to mix it up every once in a while. I ran a druid that found Xzar and Montaron absolutely entertaining companions. And Kagain's kind of quiet, but he's a deadly dangerous fighter.

[Qwinn]

Thoroughly enjoying the game, have played through a bunch more and haven't found any other issues since the last report.

 

I am going to ask for a tiny bit of a spoiler here though Regarding Imoen. And hey, you might even find a good idea for a bit more content for Imoen in this

 

SPOILER WARNING, in case anyone who hasn't played through is reading this

 

One of my favorite things about this mod so far has been her banters about Imoen studying magic, thus giving some continuity to her dual class in BG2. It was brilliant having her pick up that first mage assassin's book, and I've been delighted with every time it's been mentioned since (the "teach me Burning Hands" blackmail bit with Minsc and Dynaheir was priceless). It's written really really well, major kudos.

 

So, here's my question: does actually dual classing her to a mage do anything as far as banters/interjections go? Will I miss out on any content regarding those banters if I do - or don't - dual class her? I sort of expected to see some kind of banter when she hit level 7 (the level she is dualled at in BG2) to the effect of "Okay, I think I've got the hang of it now... I'm thinking I'd like to try concentrating on just magic for a while, but what do you think?" and the PC could then determine whether she duals or stays as a thief. But nope, nothing like that happened. And I tried actually dualling her, but no banter either.

 

The rest of this post is speculation and thinking out loud suggestions for some added content, if you guys like the ideas I'll reask my question at the end.

 

If there isn't already something along the above lines, I think something like that would absolutely rock. Maybe even put in a quest that allows her to dual class... or, oooh, I don't know if this is mechanically possible, but how about this: she hits level 7, and a banter starts up that initiates a quest for her to dual class. From that point on, any experience she gets is "saved". She stops levelling as a thief, although she can still use her thief abilities. Then, when she completes the quest and dual classes, the "saved" xp is immediately applied, possibly giving her a few mage levels right off. This would help delay the incredibly annoying "inactive thief" period for her, that aspect of dual classing being IMO the worst and most annoying ruleset creating the most motive to metagame that they ever came up with in 2nd edition, heh.

 

If that offends rule purist sensibilities, I'd suggest there's precedent: think Khelgar's NWN2 quest to change 16+ levels of fighter to 16 levels of monk

 

Anyways, if that would be too much work, then just a quest or banters involving her actually dual classing during BG1 would rock, I think Maybe even initiated during force talks with her, for people who want to dual at levels other than 7.

 

Anyways, so let me reask my question here, in case it's been forgotten amid my rambling: As the game currently stands, will I miss out on any banters or other content if I do - or don't - dual class her?

 

Qwinn

[Kulyok]

I'm afraid that the last PC-Imoen magic-related banter is where she uses Tarnesh's spellbook. However, if you have Imoen and Xan in party, and you enter the city of Baldur's Gate, there's, um, a nifty bit of magic she performs. And, yes, you may get even more in NPC-NPC banter, like the one you mentioned.

 

(And, once again, as it's been said before, there will be no further mod-added content for BG1 NPC).

 

Anyways, so let me reask my question here, in case it's been forgotten amid my rambling: As the game currently stands, will I miss out on any banters or other content if I do - or don't - dual class her?

 

No. Even if you turn her into Fighter/Mage/Thief via Level1NPCs.

[Qwinn]

And, once again, as it's been said before, there will be no further mod-added content for BG1 NPC)

 

Ah, okie, I missed this That's fine though, there's certainly plenty of content in it as it is, I can see wanting to devote attention elsewhere

 

And as far as "using Tamesh's spellbook" being the last PC-Imoen magic related banter, are you talking about where she creates the artifact? That, and her initial banter when she first picks up his book, are the only two I've seen so far.

 

Qwinn

[Kulyok]

And as far as "using Tamesh's spellbook" being the last PC-Imoen magic related banter, are you talking about where she creates the artifact? That, and her initial banter when she first picks up his book, are the only two I've seen so far.

 

Yes, that's it. But you'll also have other PC-Imoen banters, not magic-related ones. There's one very sweet banter at the Elfsong(won't spoil it for you) in Baldur's Gate, one simple one at the Firewine Bridge, then Imoen-PC-Xan exchange I mentioned. And if you're past Chapter 2, you've probably seen the rest.

[Qwinn]

Cool, thanks for the tip about having Xan and Imoen together Right now I'm thinking that my 2nd run through is going to be a berzerker with the following party: Imoen, Branwen (romance), Xan, Kivan and Safana, where Safana can do thief duty while Imoen does her dual class thing. I can't really dump anyone in my current run (in case I haven't mentioned it, my current run is with the "basic" presumed BG2 party, Khalid/Jaheira/Imoen/Minsc/Dynaheir), so I think I'm going to have to keep her as a thief on this run. Will be tough not having Fireball until practically the end of the game in my 2nd run, but oh well, hehe.

 

My third run? Hrm. I'm thinking maybe cleric/ranger with Minsc/Dynaheir/Imoen/Edwin, and the last spot have first Branwen and then Yeslick (so I can see the Branwen/Dynaheir conflict).

 

Incidentally... I've heard it often said that cleric/rangers make for powerful PC's. May I ask how? What's the strategy? Is it basically just cast ironskin and wade in like a fighter with some backup healing? That's all I can see from that class combo, but I'm sure I'm missing something. What makes it better than fighter/druid, for example? (I do love the insect swarm spells).

 

Qwinn

[Domi]

Cleric-Ranger gets access to both cleric and druid spells.

[Qwinn]

OH! Well... hot damn.

 

Qwinn

[Qwinn]

Minor issue:

 

In the carnival, if you have Jaheira in your party when Zeke tries to sell you a scroll to free Branwen, she basically beats him up and gets you the scroll for free. You can then free Branwen. But if you talk to Zeke again after that, he has no memory of previous events - he thinks Branwen is still a statue, and still tries to sell you a scroll to free her.

 

Qwinn

[berelinde]

There won't be any new content, and that means that there won't be any interjections added either. For Zeke to recall being bludgeoned by Jaheira, it would have to be a new interjection, so it isn't going to happen.

 

However, I'm pleased to report that Zeke now realizes that Branwen is in the party. I saw it myself for the first time while testing the upcoming version.

 

He says "She's alive!" and they have a lovely little exchange about misfortune and profit.

[cmorgan]

Cool - yep, I have that logged as an error that happens with Jaheira in the party; the interjection that accomplishes the swat of Zeke's head is coded to be other-mod-friendly, which means that you can go back to Zeke and he will still try to sell you the scroll.

 

We could work this out in a less-other-mod-friendly way that makes more sense, though, without changing content.

 

// creator  : DLTCEP_enhanced_WeiDU (version 200)
// argument : E:\TESTBALDURSGATETUTU\OVERRIDE\_ZEKE.DLG
// game	 : .
// source   : E:\TESTBALDURSGATETUTU\OVERRIDE\_ZEKE.DLG
// dialog   : ./DIALOG.TLK
// dialogF  : (none)

BEGIN ~_ZEKE~
//////////////////////////////////////////////////
// WARNING: this file contains non-trivial WEIGHTs
//////////////////////////////////////////////////

IF WEIGHT #1 /* Triggers after states #: 4 even though they appear after this state */
~True()
~ THEN BEGIN 0 // from:
 SAY #77080 /* ~Come one, come all!  Take a look at the stone warrior maiden.  How long has she been trapped in this petrified form, no one knows!  Be the first to learn, for the mere price of 500 gold.  For that small amount of money, I shall give you a magic scroll, and with this scroll you can release the maiden from her stone prison.  Think of the gratitude she would feel to her saviors.  Perhaps she's a princess from some far off land, or maybe a powerful sorceress in search of a concubine.  You can't afford not to know!  Buy the scroll!~ */
 IF ~~ THEN REPLY #77081 /* ~Sorry, we're not interested.~ */ GOTO 1
 IF ~PartyGoldGT(499)
~ THEN REPLY #77082 /* ~Sure, give us the scroll.~ */ GOTO 2
 IF ~~ THEN REPLY #77083 /* ~We don't have the money right now.~ */ GOTO 3
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 1 // from: 0.0
 SAY #77084 /* ~Your loss.~ */
 IF ~~ THEN EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 2 // from: 0.1
 SAY #77085 /* ~You won't regret this!  Here's the scroll, and I wish you well.  Bye now.~ */
 IF ~~ THEN DO ~GiveItem("_SCRLPET",LastTalkedToBy)
TakePartyGold(500)
EscapeArea()
~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 3 // from: 0.2
 SAY #77086 /* ~Well, if you ever get the money, I'll be here waiting.~ */
 IF ~~ THEN EXIT
END

IF WEIGHT #0 ~InParty("branwen")
~ THEN BEGIN 4 // from:
 SAY #77087 /* ~The statue has come to life!!~ */
 IF ~~ THEN DO ~EscapeArea()
~ EXIT
END

 

REPLACE_STATE_TRIGGER ~_ZEKE~ 0 
~!InParty("branwen") StateCheck("branwen",CD_STATE_NOTVALID) Global("X#ZekeBranwen","GLOBAL",0")~

 

REPLACE_STATE_TRIGGER ~_ZEKE~ 4 
~OR(3) InParty("branwen") !StateCheck("branwen",CD_STATE_NOTVALID) Global("X#ZekeBranwen","GLOBAL",1)~

 

 

(This is a general idea and not specific code - I think I see a loophole there).

 

Berelinde, you would have to check on the I_C_T3 materials and set the global from Jaheira's interjection, but with the existing materials it should be possible to make this work as intended (Zeke should be able to recognize and not offer the scroll if it is taken.)

 

In an extreme case, we could simply redirect any combination of conditions that fall between "Jaheira swats" and "Branwen is alive again, whether in the party or not", and redirect it to an existing Jaheira .tra line or to a single line, which is acceptable as a bugfix.

[cmorgan]

So, here's my question: does actually dual classing her to a mage do anything as far as banters/interjections go? I sort of expected to see some kind of banter when she hit level 7 (the level she is dualled at in BG2) to the effect of "Okay, I think I've got the hang of it now... I'm thinking I'd like to try concentrating on just magic for a while, but what do you think?" and the PC could then determine whether she duals or stays as a thief. But nope, nothing like that happened. And I tried actually dualling her, but no banter either... Maybe even put in a quest that allows her to dual class... or, oooh, I don't know if this is mechanically possible, but how about this: she hits level 7, and a banter starts up that initiates a quest for her to dual class. From that point on, any experience she gets is "saved". She stops levelling as a thief, although she can still use her thief abilities. Then, when she completes the quest and dual classes, the "saved" xp is immediately applied, possibly giving her a few mage levels right off. This would help delay the incredibly annoying "inactive thief" period for her, that aspect of dual classing being IMO the worst and most annoying ruleset creating the most motive to metagame that they ever came up with in 2nd edition, heh.

 

If that offends rule purist sensibilities, I'd suggest there's precedent: think Khelgar's NWN2 quest to change 16+ levels of fighter to 16 levels of monk

Quinn, sounds like you have a really good idea for a mod there - something you might want to pick up yoursef and have some fun with! BG1NPC leaves a good deal of open space with Imoen mid-game, and that sounds like a great area for another modder to come along and expand. Several folks over the years have suggested an "Imoen Friendship Mod" - she does not have her own quest, or anything that gives her mid-game stuff in BG. Domi had a nice quest idea written up, but it involved serious combat scripting and a three way battle, so the team set it aside.

[cmorgan]

Whuups - and a quick note, Quinn - I am reading and checking for the typo reports, etc., but not giving you code confirmations of changes as there is a big test in progress. I do promise to grab those typos and such and repair them as soon as we have a version ready for edit