Make Khalid a Fighter-Mage/Make Montaron an Assassin

[Bursk]

I understand that these are two popular tweaks, and I'm curious as to what advantages they provide over their stock class/kit choices. So why do you, user of the BG2 Tweak Pack, make Khalid a Fighter-Mage and Montaron an Assassin?

 

Regarding Fighter-Mages, is there any kind of miscast penalty for using a shield, or does that only apply if you install 'Allow Arcane Spellcasting in Armor'? If there is no penalty, I suppose it would make most sense to give F/M Khalid a shield, yes?

 

While I can see the merit in assigning the powerful F/M class to Khalid, I'm somewhat at a loss to see how Monty is improved as an Assassin. I haven't played the game properly for a while, but wouldn't Monty be a better fighter if he remained a F/T? And since Assassins get a penalty to their thief skills, wouldn't he also be a better thief if he remained a F/T?

 

[grogerson]

I understand that these are two popular tweaks, and I'm curious as to what advantages they provide over their stock class/kit choices. So why do you, user of the BG2 Tweak Pack, make Khalid a Fighter-Mage and Montaron an Assassin?

 

Regarding Fighter-Mages, is there any kind of miscast penalty for using a shield, or does that only apply if you install 'Allow Arcane Spellcasting in Armor'? If there is no penalty, I suppose it would make most sense to give F/M Khalid a shield, yes?

 

While I can see the merit in assigning the powerful F/M class to Khalid, I'm somewhat at a loss to see how Monty is improved as an Assassin. I haven't played the game properly for a while, but wouldn't Monty be a better fighter if he remained a F/T? And since Assassins get a penalty to their thief skills, wouldn't he also be a better thief if he remained a F/T?

 

I can't speak for Montaron, but there's evidence Khalid was originally intended to be a F/M. Thus the Khalid as Fighter-Mage tweak.

 

Standard game limitation for xxx-mage is to disable casting in armor or using a shield. That's why the Allow Arcane Spellcasting in Armor.

 

Hope this helps.

[Azazello]

Make Montaron an Assassin (Andyr)

What's the reason/history for this component?

[Miloch]

I'm somewhat at a loss to see how Monty is improved as an Assassin. I haven't played the game properly for a while, but wouldn't Monty be a better fighter if he remained a F/T? And since Assassins get a penalty to their thief skills, wouldn't he also be a better thief if he remained a F/T?

Powergaming aside, it probably fits his character better, the filthy little backstabbing, poisoning git.

 

Powergaming *not* aside, you could make him a Fighter/Assassin or Duelist (From Sword & Fist)/Thief, or Fighter/Burglar (from Song & Silence) or whatever other weird combo you can come up with (using L1NPCs of course).

[cmorgan]

erm... non-technical answer... Domi liked the characterization of Khalid as a F/M, and Andyr liked Montaron characterized as an assasin, and since I love their work in BG1NPC, it seems natural to chose the RP class the writers thought matched their writing and keep the characters consistent. Both of these are really tweaks for Tutu (and now BGT as well), since neither are joinables in BG2.

[Azazello]

...Both of these are really tweaks for Tutu (and now BGT as well), since neither are joinables in BG2.

Montaron is joinable using TDD, or BGT with BGT Tweaks.

 

For me, Montaron will forever be a TDD Burglar (perhaps should be called 'Mugger'). That 'Deep Sleep' innate has saved my party's ass(es?) many a time in the BG1 portion.

 

{It was discovered the "bonus 50 points to pick pocketing skills after creation" comes after level 8 or 9.}

[Guest Guest]

erm... non-technical answer... Domi liked the characterization of Khalid as a F/M, and Andyr liked Montaron characterized as an assasin, and since I love their work in BG1NPC, it seems natural to chose the RP class the writers thought matched their writing and keep the characters consistent. Both of these are really tweaks for Tutu (and now BGT as well), since neither are joinables in BG2.

 

So...um, should i make these characters into the above if using bg1npc? I mean, does the mod reference khalid being a mage of sorts in dialogues and stuff...cause that would be weird if i don't have him as one...I don't have a problem with it either way really, although then why wouldn't imoen ask khalid for some help in regards to spells, and not just dynaheir for eg...just would like to know what fits in a roleplay sense...

 

Thanks

[Bursk]

I understand that these are two popular tweaks, and I'm curious as to what advantages they provide over their stock class/kit choices. So why do you, user of the BG2 Tweak Pack, make Khalid a Fighter-Mage and Montaron an Assassin?

 

Regarding Fighter-Mages, is there any kind of miscast penalty for using a shield, or does that only apply if you install 'Allow Arcane Spellcasting in Armor'? If there is no penalty, I suppose it would make most sense to give F/M Khalid a shield, yes?

 

While I can see the merit in assigning the powerful F/M class to Khalid, I'm somewhat at a loss to see how Monty is improved as an Assassin. I haven't played the game properly for a while, but wouldn't Monty be a better fighter if he remained a F/T? And since Assassins get a penalty to their thief skills, wouldn't he also be a better thief if he remained a F/T?

 

I can't speak for Montaron, but there's evidence Khalid was originally intended to be a F/M. Thus the Khalid as Fighter-Mage tweak.

 

Standard game limitation for xxx-mage is to disable casting in armor or using a shield. That's why the Allow Arcane Spellcasting in Armor.

 

Hope this helps.

Could someone confirm the whole disable casting when using a shield thing? I started a new game of BG2, created a character identical to Khalid (but as a F/M) and found that I had no trouble casting spells when using any size shield, even large.

 

Here's my WeiDU.log:

 

// Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods

// The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod

// ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version]

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #0 // BG2 Fixpack - Core Fixes: 6.1

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #1 // BG2 Fixpack - Game Text Update: 6.1

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #100 // Party Gets XP for Sending Keldorn to Reconcile With Maria: 6.1

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #101 // Improved Spell Animations: 6.1

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #102 // Cromwell's Forging Actually Takes a Day: 6.1

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #103 // Mixed-Use Dagger Fixes: 6.1

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #104 // Ghreyfain's Holy Symbol Fixes: 6.1

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #106 // Giants Receive Penalties When Attacking Halflings, Dwarves, and Gnomes: 6.1

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #107 // Remove Dual-Classing Restriction from Archers and Stalkers: 6.1

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #108 // Remove Second Attribute Bonus for Evil Path in Wrath Hell Trial: 6.1

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #109 // Corrected Summoned Demon Behavior: 6.1

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #110 // Additional Script Fixes: 6.1

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #111 // Bard Song Fixes: 6.1

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #112 // Wizard Slayers Cause Miscast Magic on Ranged Attacks: 6.1

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #113 // Additional Alignment Fixes: 6.1

~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #114 // Change Free Action to Protect Against Stun: 6.1

~WIDESCREEN/WIDESCREEN.TP2~ #0 #0 // Widescreen Mod: Widescreen Mod v1

 

Oh, and thanks to everyone who responded.

[Gorilym]

It's a been a while since I've played such a class using shields; but as I recall fighter-mages, cleric-mages etc. can cast arcane spells just fine despite having shields equipped in the vanilla game(s). I've never used the component, but a glance at the Tweaks readme suggests that "Allow Arcane Spellcasting in Armor" implements casting penalties for shield-usage, (which are not present sans-mods) thus not disallowing casting.

 

edit: clarification

[Bursk]

For Khalid as a F/M I see two likely configurations:

 

1) Sword and Shield Style (Large Shield being the biggest he can use)

 

2) Two Weapon Style

 

I'd like Khalid to be on the front line, or at least close to it, casting spells and fighting melee. If I go for option 2, won't he probably end up dying really quickly? I'm almost done working out my L1NPCs configs for BG1, and it looks like the only NPC using Two Weapon Style will be Yeslick (he'll be able to wear armour and still cast, unlike F/M Khalid).

 

Is Two Weapon Style not really that viable in BG1?

[Gorilym]

Based on my experience with dual-wielding fighter/mage Xan in an ongoing game, I expect Khalid would do fine with a two-weapon style specialization as long as:

 

• He gets three stars in it ASAP, going for long- or short swords (good ones available early) and using a shield until then. THACO is so high in the early stages, that with one or two stars he'll struggle to hit anything beyond kobolds with his off-hand anyways.

 

• He isn't used as a tank. I doubt fighter/mages at BG1 levels can be truly effective in roles other than flank attacker/support caster.

 

• He uses the Armor & Shield spells heavily until you can afford an Archmagi robe for him (or Casters Chain if using Rogue Rebalancing.)

[Bursk]

Thanks, Gorilym. I'll be sure to give this further thought.