SR V2.9

[Demivrgvs]

False dawn

...see my same objections about incendiary cloud, you should test these long lasting area blindness, expecially against spellcasters; 6 rounds are plenty.

Yeah, but here the AoE is smaller (I was even thinking to limit it to 15 feet), and the blindness lasts only 1 round.

 

Aura of Flaming Death

...no save and being a hla means this is a cheap way to distrupt spellcasting of every mage in the game just by placing the cleric near him, a fire shield effect should be enough.

You have a point, but I'm not sure I completely agree. Storm of Vengeance already is very effective to distrupt spellcasting and Blade Barrier allow a save yes, but once each second with SR! If it's just a matter of allowing a save to balance it we could use a save vs. breath, if we don't like the idea instead we'll just not implement it. Furthermore the damage dealt as a Fire Shield may need to be raised considering Fire Shields in V3 will build up to 1d6+10 points of damage at 20th level. Balor's Aura of Flaming Death deals 6d6 fire damage if I'm not wrong.

[Raj]

Dawn's aoe might be smaller but it's still a aoe bypassing almost all creature immunities in the game, and you want to make it bypass mr too; just compare it to power word blind that is single target and level 8 ( no save but doesn't bypass mr either ), for a level 6 divine ( soon to be druid only, not that they need more anti-mage spells ) it looks overpowered to me.

Enemies are going to fail a save eventually ( I'm playing with the SR belt of inertial barrier atm and w/o save penalities enemies, even boss-like ones, when are forced to roll every round they get screwed ) and being blind make them waste the spell they are casting while screwing their IA.

That one is a spell that is never casted by the AI too so it's giving a flat advantage to players.

It's a level 6 spell that damages all undeads, liches included, I just say it's 'enough', considered druid have a poor arsenal against them.

If you want to add some flavour ( and the same suggestion goes for the incendiary cloud ) add some to hit penalities or apply the blind effect just for the first round, let suppose enemies eyes 'adapt' to the light/smoke after that.

 

Aura: is the aoe going to be party friendly?

 

 

 

 

Just a bug/suggestion for v3: is it possible to make turning undeads remove invisibility/sanctuary effects like globe of blades?

[SixOfSpades]

is it possible to make turning undeads remove invisibility/sanctuary effects like globe of blades?

I'm pretty sure everything about Turn Undead is hardcoded. The best you could do is alter Invisibility, Mislead, etc., so that for each round it is active, all Undead creatures in the vicinity become immune to Turn for 1 round. Which is a "solution" that might cause almost as many problems as it solves.

[Demivrgvs]

False Dawn

Dawn's aoe might be smaller but it's still a aoe bypassing almost all creature immunities in the game, and you want to make it bypass mr too; just compare it to power word blind that is single target and level 8 ( no save but doesn't bypass mr either ), for a level 6 divine ( soon to be druid only, not that they need more anti-mage spells ) it looks overpowered to me.

Enemies are going to fail a save eventually ( I'm playing with the SR belt of inertial barrier atm and w/o save penalities enemies, even boss-like ones, when are forced to roll every round they get screwed ) and being blind make them waste the spell they are casting while screwing their IA.

We can make it not bypass magic resistance, my concern was that Skeletal Warriors have 90% mr, Death Knight have 75% and liches will have 50% with V3's new optional component, but perhaps this will rebalance it a lot.

 

Regarding enemies which eventually fail against multiple saves this is not making the spell more effective: previously a single save failed would have caused targets to stay blind for the entire duration, now victims will almost certainly have at least a few rounds where they can avoid the effect.

 

Incendiary Cloud

If you want to add some flavour ( and the same suggestion goes for the incendiary cloud ) add some to hit penalities or apply the blind effect just for the first round, let suppose enemies eyes 'adapt' to the light/smoke after that.

Actually I think I've found a way to implement limited sight within a Incendiary Cloud. Instead of using blindness opcode we can use visual range (262) to limit the visual but not as much as blindness (even half visual range might be enough), and then apply a small penalty to thac0. Afterall the spell isn't really blinding the victims, it's just obscuring the area making difficult to see things within it.

 

Aura of Flaming Death

Aura: is the aoe going to be party friendly?

From a roleplaying point of view it should affect anyone, but it would cause problems with the AI. Perhaps it's just better to leave it as it is and raise the damage dealt by the shield.

 

Turn Undead

is it possible to make turning undeads remove invisibility/sanctuary effects like globe of blades?

I'm pretty sure everything about Turn Undead is hardcoded. The best you could do is alter Invisibility, Mislead, etc., so that for each round it is active, all Undead creatures in the vicinity become immune to Turn for 1 round. Which is a "solution" that might cause almost as many problems as it solves.

I'm quite sure I can do nothing about it.

[Raj]

We can make it not bypass magic resistance, my concern was that Skeletal Warriors have 90% mr, Death Knight have 75% and liches will have 50% with V3's new optional component, but perhaps this will rebalance it a lot.

 

Well, that's what Lower Resistance and the like are for, anyway the undeads don't worry me, it's the blindness vs everyone ( like, a room full of illithids, drows, demons, high level opponents with decent mr and nasty AI ) that is going to show the full exploit of the spell.

 

 

About liches and rakshasa with optional SR instead of spell immunity, remember that scs2 makes them cast aoe like cloudkill, skull traps and sunfire on top of their heads because they think they are immune.

[Demivrgvs]

False Dawn

We can make it not bypass magic resistance, my concern was that Skeletal Warriors have 90% mr, Death Knight have 75% and liches will have 50% with V3's new optional component, but perhaps this will rebalance it a lot.

Well, that's what Lower Resistance and the like are for, anyway the undeads don't worry me, it's the blindness vs everyone (like, a room full of illithids, drows, demons, high level opponents with decent mr and nasty AI ) that is going to show the full exploit of the spell.

Well, with a 15 feet radius affecting a full room seems quite impossible, not to mention this would involve multiple creatures failing their save which is not so common in BG2. Anyway I've made it not bypass magic resistance, thus combined with the small AoE and the chance to save against its effects I really can't consider this spell overpowered.

 

Sunray

Speaking of large AoE blindness this spell already had it too. I've slightly revised the spell: "When this spell is cast, it causes a ray of sunlight to beam down upon the caster and a globe of searing radiance to explode in a 30' radius. All hostile creatures in the area of effect are blinded for 10 rounds and take 6d6 points of damage. An undead creature caught within the sunburst takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (up to a maximum of 20d6). A successful save vs. spell at -6 penalty negates the blindness and reduces the damage by half. In addition, the burst results in the destruction of any undead creature specifically harmed by bright light if it fail its save vs. death".

It's more effective against non-undead (+3d6 damage, better save penalty), but it's less overpowered against undead (it now allows a save to halve the damage). Furthermore only creatures specifically vulnerable to light (shadows, specters, vampires, and wraith) are affected by the instant death effect.

 

Liches and Rakshasas immunities

About liches and rakshasa with optional SR instead of spell immunity, remember that scs2 makes them cast aoe like cloudkill, skull traps and sunfire on top of their heads because they think they are immune.

Which means it's another thing which I cannot implement. Only SCS itself can handle this issue than.

 

Anyway, is it just me or being immune to 5th level spells (e.g. Skull Trap, Cloudkill) while still being affected by beneficial 5th level spells (e.g Spell Immunity) seems extremely convenient?

[Raj]

Well, enemies gang on the party so the aoe seems big enough to me, hey I hit a dozen drows with a single lower resistance one day Anyway without mr it looks better to me, I'm just bit paranoid about the blindness thing and though it was already a good spell.

 

Anyway, is it just me or being immune to 5th level spells (e.g. Skull Trap, Cloudkill) while still being affected by beneficial 5th level spells (e.g Spell Immunity) seems extremely convenient?

 

Well, it's not a complete immunity to 1-5 spells because they cast tons of low level buffs on themselves ( mirror images, stoneskin, SI, MMM, lot of things ).

It's not a complete immunity to enemy 1-5 spells too because even in vanilla they can be hit by a dispel/remove magic.

I tend to interpeter it like a 'cannot be harmed by level 1-5 spells' that is not extended to its own magic defences, so that a breach or dispel that hit the lich buffs are actually a workaround.

It is extremely convenient but it's part of the challenge ^^

[RestInPeace]

Liches are supposed to be immune to level 1-5 spells, but they sometimes suffer from their own Sunfire in vanilla games. The information is like this:

 

Lich: Cast spell: Sunfire

Lich: Damage Take (xx)

Lich: Spell ineffective

Lich: Spell ineffective

 

I have not tested that with SR.

 

Another thing:

http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=16487

Can SR solve this problem in the future?

[Raj]

[delete me]

[Jarno Mikkola]

Anyway, is it just me or being immune to 5th level spells (e.g. Skull Trap, Cloudkill) while still being affected by beneficial 5th level spells (e.g Spell Immunity) seems extremely convenient?

Yeah, especially with the SI's and Protection from Magical Weapons while being immune to breach -If that ever happens-... as the liches should be using the Absolute Immunity, or Mantle spells if they can't cast AI. Because there is a difference on putting the liches powers to spells they absolutelly need and so lowering the expected spell potential, and getting the same benefit or more from low level spells and so gaining 300 shadow monkeys.

[Raj]

You are beating a dead horse.

[Demivrgvs]

Ok, some more spells have been implemented and I also have a few reports. A little surprise expects you, a few spells which players can't use.

 

Cause Wounds spells and "touch" spells in general

I think I'll slightly revise them for mainly two things:

1) enchantment level of the attack

2) duration before the energy/attack expire

 

1) should it be tied to spell's level or fixed but lowered from +6 to something more common?

2) is it just me or all Cause Wounds spells are simply patethic even after being greatly improved by SR? I think a simple way to increase somewhat their appeal is making them last much longer, in order to be casted before battle and used for the classic cast'n attack routine. Perhaps this may actually make a few of them (e.g. Harm) even too appealin?

 

Dolorous Decay

We have to discard the "plague" effect because it would cause quite a lot of mess. I've worked a few hours on it this night before realizing that Cure Disease really couldn't handle this spell. Thus we have to keep it single target only, but I still can't decide how. Would a simple Contagion+Poison be enough?

 

Summon Shadow

This spell was a 5th level spell in IWD but it may also be considered PnP's Create Undead (which is a sort of improved Animate Dead). Shouldn't we add it to Cleric's level 6 spells? Six level slots are actually the ones with very few choices right now for clerics: 9 spells, while all other spell levels allow to choose from 11-14 spells.

 

P.S I really don't have a bam for Banishment/Dismissal, thus I'll leave this spell out until I found a good bam (IWD's one would be perfect if it wasn't for the horrid color issue).

 

Regeneration

As of now this spell was too weak imo, especially after finding out that it doesn't stack with any regeneration rate granted by items. It should have been a 6th level spell in theory, but I don think moving spells to different levels shouldn't be done if possible. What about increasing its duration to 1 turn + 2 rounds/level? It would last up to 5 turns, regenerating up to 300 hit points.

 

Energy Blades

Mages get this spell at 9th level instead of 7th, thus I do wish to either improve the arcane version or slightly nerf the divine one. What do you think about it?

 

Implosion

I'm going to implement SR's save system to this spell, but the spell is fine as it is with improved penalties. Which save seems the most appropriate to halve its damage?

 

 

The following spells have been finished and implemented in the build.

 

 

False Dawn

"By drawing on the power of the sun, this spell causes the caster's body to emanate a bright light that extends 15 feet in all directions. Each round, opponents within the area must save vs. spell at -5 or be blinded for 1 round. Undead creatures take 2d6 points of damage for each round they are exposed to the False Dawn". Casting time is a full round, duration is 1 turn, and it won't bypass magic resistance anymore.

 

Sunray

I've slightly revised the spell: "When this spell is cast, it causes a ray of sunlight to beam down upon the caster and a globe of searing radiance to explode in a 30' radius. All hostile creatures in the area of effect are blinded for 10 rounds and take 6d6 points of damage. An undead creature caught within the sunburst takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (up to a maximum of 20d6). A successful save vs. spell at -6 penalty negates the blindness and reduces the damage by half. In addition, the burst results in the destruction of any undead creature specifically harmed by bright light if it fail its save vs. death".

It's more effective against non-undead (+3d6 damage, better save penalty), but it's less overpowered against undead (it now allows a save to halve the damage). Furthermore only creatures specifically vulnerable to light (shadows, specters, vampires, and wraith) are affected by the instant death effect.

 

Symbol of Death/Stun/Weakness (arcan, divine, and innate versions)

They won't be triggered by caster's allies anymore, and it won't harm caster and companions.

 

Fire Storm

Small change again, it now allows a save to halve the damage. For a 7th level spell 8d8+80 points of damage was really too much, especially considering its new "semi-friendly" AoE.

 

Storm of Vengeance

Slightly revised as we discussed. "Each round, the victims suffer 2d6 points of electrical damage, and 2d6 points of acid damage (save vs. breath at -6 for half damage). They also have a chance to be poisoned each round (save vs. death at -6 or suffer 2 points of damage per second for one round)".

 

Demilich Howl

It now matches SR's Wail of the Banshee. I'll probably limit its range to 20 feet as per PnP sooner or later.

 

Demilich Soul Trap

Slightly changed to be more "friendly", it's obviously based upon PnP's Trap the Soul. Now uses SR's "tweaked" Imprisonment, but the "maze" effect actually allows a save vs. spell at -6 to be avoided. Anyway the spell will also drain 4 levels even with a successful save.

 

P.S If I'm not wrong SCSII did a very similar thing to this spell.

[Raj]

SCS2 did almost the same thing for the soul trap, I'm not sure about save penalities; are changes going to be overwritten with SCS2 installed?

 

Cause wounds: I think harm and slay living are very nice as they are and aren't in dire need of more power, it's the low level ones ( and the arcane ones ) whose limited effect doesn't justify the risk to enter malee range (but enough for bg1 I guess).

 

Energy Blades: I'm used to Refinements that took it away from clerics, anyway it's powerful as it is in wizards hands, nerf the divine version, or even better change them to something different, like frozen blades .

 

Implosion: now it doesn't allow a save for the stun but allows a save without penalities for half damage, why not allow a -6 ( vs paralysis/death ) save for both ?

[Demivrgvs]

Dolorous Decay

This damn spell is driving me crazy. What about:

- on hit -1 to STR, DEX, and CON, movement rate halved for 1 turn (no save)

- save vs. death/poison or take 2 points of damage every 2 sec, plus another -1 to physical attributes on 5th and 10th round

Any suggestion? Should we keep it entirely save-or-else or my suggested solution seems fair?

 

Demilich Soul Trap

SCS2 did almost the same thing for the soul trap, I'm not sure about save penalities; are changes going to be overwritten with SCS2 installed?

I don't know, probably yes. But I'll add it to the dedicated component of SR which has to be installed after SCSII.

 

Touch Spells

I think harm and slay living are very nice as they are and aren't in dire need of more power, it's the low level ones ( and the arcane ones ) whose limited effect doesn't justify the risk to enter malee range (but enough for bg1 I guess).

Indeed Harm Slay Living weren't the problem, but I don't think arcane touch spells are that bad either except Chill Touch. Shocking Grasp is the most damaging 1st level spell (same damage of Magic Missile), and its stun effect should be quite effective too. Ghoul touch is very underrated: for 1o rounds the caster is able to strike in melee with a good enchantment level, dealing magic damage (very few creatures are resistant to it, and it bypasses stoneskins), and with a chance to paralyze targets each with each hit.

 

The really weak ones imo are Cause Serious/Critical Wounds.

The 3rd level one on average deals 28.5 points of damage. Holy Smite pratically deals the same damage with a "friendly" 20' radius AoE, a long range, no attack roll needed, and a chance to blind (and I'm considering SR's Holy Smite which has been capped!). The same is valid for Glyph of Warding which doesn't bypass mr but can be used as a very effective trap too. In conclusion, I really can't see why a cleric should memorize Cause Serious Wounds!

Cause Critical Wounds has only Poison as damage-dealer alternative, but V3's Poison is going extremely more effective then it.

 

What makes me laugh is that in vanilla BG these two spells dealt even less damage and occupied a higher level slot too (4th and 5th level respectively)!

 

Energy Blades

I'm used to Refinements that took it away from clerics, anyway it's powerful as it is in wizards hands, nerf the divine version, or even better change them to something different, like frozen blades .

Refinements really is a must-have imo, but not everyone uses it. I agree that we may nerf the divine version, and perhaps change the type of damage dealt.

 

Implosion

Now it doesn't allow a save for the stun but allows a save without penalities for half damage, why not allow a -6 ( vs paralysis/death ) save for both ?

I'm not sure, isn't the "1 round held with no save" its most appealing feature? Other than that it's pratically a divine "Greater" Disintegrate.

[Raj]

I though about adding a save to the stun effect for coherency and to balance the added penality to the other save

 

I don't think fire+phisical(bludgeoning?) damage is the most appropriate for implosion btw, and priests have plenty of fire spells availabe; magic damage?

 

 

Ghoul touch and the like suffer from making the caster 'lose' his weapon for the duration, usually a staff with good immunities/bonus to saves, but it's okay for bg1.

 

 

Dolorous Decay

This damn spell is driving me crazy. What about:

- on hit -1 to STR, DEX, and CON, movement rate halved for 1 turn (no save)

- save vs. death/poison or take 2 points of damage every 2 sec, plus another -1 to physical attributes on 5th and 10th level

Any suggestion? Should we keep it entirely save-or-else or my suggested solution seems fair

 

The improvements at 5th and 10th make no sense because you have to already be 11th level cleric to cast level 6 spells.

What's wrong with the actual spell btw? I found it expecially useful for the casting time of 1, something rare among divine spells.