SR V2.9

[Ardanis]

i realise it's a bit long and others may not like it

Then they shouldn't scroll the description down.

 

In theory I agree with you...but I'm not sure I'll be able to do it, probably not anytime soon.

Question is, where their immunitiy comes from - innate resist or an item. The latter would be a little more complicated, and the most recent events have shown I'm still a bad macro writer.

[Guest guest]

Just a quick little query, i notice you say you've got dimension door as a spell, and that it was in V1, but 'hidden', what do you mean by hidden?

 

It all just made me remember that simding0's quest pack also reintroduced this as an optional component, but he stated that it could 'break' the game...i'm not sure if you've changed this spell or not, or if you were even aware that it had/has issues; apparently this is why it was hidden in the first place says the quest pack...I do not have any details, apart from cryptic things like 'breaks game', 'hidden' so that is all I have to show, sorry.

 

If these issues persist though, maybe the spell could be made optional in SR too?

[Guest Guest]

You could Dimension Door beyond a trigger, rather than being forced to walk over it like the game expects. That's how it can apparently break the game.

 

If it is re-introduced in SR, maybe there could be some sort of clear warning in the readme that it should only be used in combat or something.

[Demivrgvs]

I've pratically finished...thus if anyone is willing to help I need you to share your opinion on spells which aren't "flagged" as Done in the first post of this immense discussion, or those which aren't mentioned at all if you think you have a good suggestion.

 

Quick notes:

- Enchanted Weapon: finished, and I've added arrows, bolts, and bullets to the list.

- Incendiary Cloud: added a patch to make Flaming Skulls immune to it, and for convenience Azamantes too. I'll probably expand this patch to more creatures and spells when I get the time. Thanks Mike for providing me with a very simple way to handle it!

- Meteor Swarm: for some reasons it bypasses magic resistance even if flagged to not do so, exactly like Sunfire does. I guess it's not a big problem as the spell was always considered very weak compared to Dragon's Breath, thus as of now I've simply mentioned it in the description.

 

100%+ resistance value

Looks like some really nice ideas here. Out of interest, what's the advantage of Electrical Resistance being 125% instead of 100%? Will it mean electrical damage actually heals the creature?

Yes.

 

Dimension Door

You could Dimension Door beyond a trigger, rather than being forced to walk over it like the game expects. That's how it can apparently break the game.

 

If it is re-introduced in SR, maybe there could be some sort of clear warning in the readme that it should only be used in combat or something.

Well...actually all spells are "optional", but yes, I can probably mention it somewhere.

[Raj]

Ok my 2 cents about un-done spells then:

 

Power Word Sleep

Currently works only against targets with less than 20 hit points. What about changing it to "allow a save only if the target has more than 20hp"?

 

20hp means I'd proly cast a magic missle or, to keep the same spell level, a melf acid arrow and outright kill the target; it's hard to determine the hp of the target so so yes, make it somehow more useful.

 

Lightning Bolt

Do you like it as it is now? Should we reduce the damage and add something like a chance to stun 1 round, or a small 5' radius of collateral damage? Feel free to disregard the suggestions, I'm not even convinced myself of them.

 

I like it now; 1 round stun is interesting but if you lower its damage it's going to lose all its appeal; no to the 5' radius, there's chain lighting for that.

 

Ghost Armor

What about making it more similar to another quite famous spell of the same type, Death Armor? AC 3 and 1D4 +1/3 levels (up to 1D4+5) points of magic damage to whoever strikes the caster in melee. Does it seems fine?

 

No, that would really make it overpowered for its level/duration; enemies woudn't recognize/use it either, and it's going to be another uber fighter/mage buff, while it's currently incarnation for thief/mage is something more unique. Make its boni scale with level would be more interesting.

 

Oracle

Is its current SR's incarnation fine? Else it may became a sort of Dispel Illusion + Clairvoyance, or something similar.

Sorry I didn't notice any difference between the standard version and SR one. What is this spell supposed to do, beside being a poor man true sight?

Just a quick though, I'd make it sort of Dispel Illusion + True Strike.

 

Spell Shield

This spell is broken, has a few issues, and may cause a lot of frustration in some cases (may absorbs infinite spells), which is why SCS fortunately uses it very few times. I think that we may even decide to completely change what it does to make it a likeable and "issue free" spell.

Just so you know, in PnP Spell Shield has two versions (both from 'Magic of Faerun'):

1) 2nd level Spell Shield grants +3 to saves

2) Azuth's Spell Shield instead is a 7th level spell and grants spell resistance to allies

I actually don't like the idea of mass spell resistance, thus I'd prefer something like 1) though obvioulsy more powerful. Have you any suggestion?

 

Option 1) is a bit weak but could work if you make it short lasting but not dispellable by any means ( antimagic rays included )

 

Flesh to Stone

If possible something should be done about this spell and its potential game-over issue if casted on charname.

tbtweaks already solves it ( it perma stun + remove all hp but 1 ), but looks like it bugs the encounter with those noob adventurers you meet in Abazigal dungeon.

 

Protection from Magical Weapons

This is actually a technical change, I'd replace the total immunity with immunity to magical weapons from +1 to +6. What's for? Currently I can think of only one benefit: Black Blade of Disaster will have one of its most powerful unimplemented power, "ignores any spell protection".

Does anyone know if there's any instance of items uncorrectly flagged that may bypass it? E.g. Vanilla's Arrow of Dispelling was flagged as magical but with enchantment level 0, and I still have to check how that work.

Black Blade of Disaster

Revised to use V3's Disintegrate on hit, and to bypass PfMW in case we apply the aforementioned tweak to the 6th level spell. It won't deal physical damage anymore, only magic damage, thus making the whole damage bypass Stoneskin too. The disintegrate on hit effect may be implemented in two ways (I've found the spell in two different books): every hit, with a +2 bonus on save as per vanilla, or 15% chance with a -6 penalty to the save. I'd vote for the latter. Being made of pure magical energy strength bonuses do not apply, making it slightly less appealing for fighter/mages who generally have very good STR.

 

These two works together and I'd say no plz, bypassing both pfmw and stoneskin is going to make any mage encounter pointless; 15% and -6 for the disintegrate effect is a good tweak instead. A +4 to hit but no boni from strength like phantasmal blade would work too.

 

 

Sphere of Chaos

I fear its current version is not universaly liked, and I'm not even able to estimate its effectiveness. Would you prefer to make it back cause random effects? The differences between vanilla's version would be that we could decide which effects apply (I'd say confusion, berserk, fear, sleep, ...) and that I wouldn't use effects that may be beneficial to opponents. Let me know what do you prefer. Theoretically we may keep wild surge as one of its effects anyway.

 

Random not beneficial effects instead of wild surge would work good. Polimorph might be too powerful, wild surge as one of its effects is fine, make it party friendly ( the lich in Akhmetran -sp?- uses it ).

 

Ruby Ray of Reversal

It does a few more things in PnP:

- any trap targeted by it is sprung

- unlock just like Knock spell

- a polymorphed creature is forced to its normal state (may be doable, casting a Natural Form spell on target)

- reverse a Flesh to Stone spell (it would make Stone to Flesh even more pointless than now)

- destroy webs, grease and entangle (quite hard to implement)

Let me know if you think some of these things are worth to be worked on.

 

knock and disarm traps effects are intriguing, while not a great priority.

 

 

Energy Drain

As I previously announced I've added a vampiric effect to it. As of now I've opted for 20 hit points drain, but if you have a better suggestion let me know.

 

20hp is a bit ridiculous for a level 9 side effect if you ask me.

 

 

Bigby's Crushing Hand

Would replacing "hold creature 2" with "stun" make it slightly more effective?

 

yes

 

Freedom

As of now it's almost a useless spell. In 3rd edition it frees from spells and effects that restrict movement, including binding, entangle, grappling, imprisonment, maze, paralysis, petrification, pinning, sleep, slow, stunning, temporal stasis, and web. I think doing something similar would help making it slightly more worth of a 9th level slot instead of being used only once per year to free an imprisoned/mazed character. Am I wrong?

 

Good improvment but not worth it yet because a cleric in party can do most of that using level 3-4 slots. 'Waste' the highest spell slot only to cure from some disabling effects is not something I'd do ( a summoned planetar has more useful healing/protection spells too ). Add something like 4 rounds mass improved haste and you have a worthwhile level 9 slot.

[Demivrgvs]

Thanks, that's the kind of posts that really helps me work faster.

 

Power Word Sleep

Currently works only against targets with less than 20 hit points. What about changing it to "allow a save only if the target has more than 20hp"?

20hp means I'd proly cast a magic missle or, to keep the same spell level, a melf acid arrow and outright kill the target; it's hard to determine the hp of the target so so yes, make it somehow more useful.

Does it means my proposed solution is ok?

 

Lightning Bolt

I like it now; 1 round stun is interesting but if you lower its damage it's going to lose all its appeal; no to the 5' radius, there's chain lighting for that.

Now that I've surprisingly made Flame Arrow work a little different this spell has gained back some usefulness imo, as it allow to focus all damage against a single target. I'll leave it untouched unless most of you agree with another solution.

 

Ghost Armor

What about making it more similar to another quite famous spell of the same type, Death Armor? AC 3 and 1D4 +1/3 levels (up to 1D4+5) points of magic damage to whoever strikes the caster in melee. Does it seems fine?

No, that would really make it overpowered for its level/duration; enemies woudn't recognize/use it either, and it's going to be another uber fighter/mage buff, while it's currently incarnation for thief/mage is something more unique. Make its boni scale with level would be more interesting.

You're probably right (though reducing the duration is not a problem)...but the AC bonus is already top notch imo being it only one point higher than Spirit Armor. I have to find something else connected somehow to things like 'ghosts' and 'shadows'.

 

P.S Not a single script in vanilla uses this spell, thus we're quite free.

 

Oracle

Is its current SR's incarnation fine? Else it may became a sort of Dispel Illusion + Clairvoyance, or something similar.

Sorry I didn't notice any difference between the standard version and SR one. What is this spell supposed to do, beside being a poor man true sight?

With SR I've allowed it to dispel Mislead, Project Image and Mass Invisibility.

 

Just a quick though, I'd make it sort of Dispel Illusion + True Strike.

Yeah...I had in mind something similar, or something like what I've done to Clairvoyance.

 

Spell Shield

Option 1) is a bit weak but could work if you make it short lasting but not dispellable by any means ( antimagic rays included )

I hadn't update the first post regarding the discussion on this spell...the latest suggestions were to make it grant "always successfully save + immunity to magic/elemental damage" for a limited time (e.g. 5 rounds).

 

Flesh to Stone

tbtweaks already solves it ( it perma stun + remove all hp but 1 ), but looks like it bugs the encounter with those noob adventurers you meet in Abazigal dungeon.

As of now I haven't found a way to do it myself...and what tbtweaks does isn't so simple to reproduce. I'm at loss with this damn spell.

 

Protection from Magical Weapons & Black Blade of Disaster

These two works together and I'd say no plz, bypassing both pfmw and stoneskin is going to make any mage encounter pointless; 15% and -6 for the disintegrate effect is a good tweak instead. A +4 to hit but no boni from strength like phantasmal blade would work too.

Ok, I'll leave PfMW untouched for now but only because the AI wouldn't handle it. I strongly believe PfMW is incredibly overpowered against the AI (players can just switch to a unencheanted weapon), or if exploited together with a natural immunity (e.g. like liches do).

 

Sphere of Chaos

I fear its current version is not universaly liked, and I'm not even able to estimate its effectiveness. Would you prefer to make it back cause random effects? The differences between vanilla's version would be that we could decide which effects apply (I'd say confusion, berserk, fear, sleep, ...) and that I wouldn't use effects that may be beneficial to opponents. Let me know what do you prefer. Theoretically we may keep wild surge as one of its effects anyway.

 

Random not beneficial effects instead of wild surge would work good. Polimorph might be too powerful, wild surge as one of its effects is fine, make it party friendly ( the lich in Akhmetran -sp?- uses it ).

Polymorph is indeed too powerful (almost an insta-kill effect), and that's why the original Polymorph Other spell had a ridiculously easy save despite being a 4th level spell. I think I'll use 20% chance for each of the following effects: berserk, confusion, fear, sleep, and wild surge.

 

Ruby Ray of Reversal

knock and disarm traps effects are intriguing, while not a great priority.

Yeah, unfortunately I don't think I'll have too much time to "waste" on these very small improvements right now.

 

Energy Drain

As I previously announced I've added a vampiric effect to it. As of now I've opted for 20 hit points drain, but if you have a better suggestion let me know.

20hp is a bit ridiculous for a level 9 side effect if you ask me.

More recent discussions on this thread lead me to the following proposed solutions:

 

1) drain 1 level per round while curing the caster of 5 hp each time. I'd say it shouldn't last more than 10 rounds.

 

2) similarly to Blackrazor's Souldrinking ability it may also grant the caster some bonuses like increased statistics, saves, etc.

 

What do you think? Any another suggestion?

 

Bigby's Crushing Hand

Would replacing "hold creature 2" with "stun" make it slightly more effective?

yes

Good. Another improvement would be to make it bypass magic resistance as per most 9th level spells, but I fear it would make it too powerful...

 

Freedom

As of now it's almost a useless spell. In 3rd edition it frees from spells and effects that restrict movement, including binding, entangle, grappling, imprisonment, maze, paralysis, petrification, pinning, sleep, slow, stunning, temporal stasis, and web. I think doing something similar would help making it slightly more worth of a 9th level slot instead of being used only once per year to free an imprisoned/mazed character. Am I wrong?

Good improvment but not worth it yet because a cleric in party can do most of that using level 3-4 slots. 'Waste' the highest spell slot only to cure from some disabling effects is not something I'd do ( a summoned planetar has more useful healing/protection spells too ). Add something like 4 rounds mass improved haste and you have a worthwhile level 9 slot.

Well...Freedom doesn't remind me Improved Haste...a short lasting "Free Action" may be more appropriate.

[Raj]

Power Word Sleep

Does it means my proposed solution is ok?

yup.

 

Lightning Bolt

Now that I've surprisingly made Flame Arrow work a little different this spell has gained back some usefulness imo, as it allow to focus all damage against a single target. I'll leave it untouched unless most of you agree with another solution.

it's ok.

 

Ghost Armor

I have to find something else connected somehow to things like 'ghosts' and 'shadows'.

Another random idea thrown: every time the caster is hit, he has a 5% chance to turn invisible. 5 turns duration like most arcane buffs.

 

Oracle

With SR I've allowed it to dispel Mislead, Project Image and Mass Invisibility.

Wow, it was worse than I remember in vanilla It's the typical spell that could be thrown into garbage if you'll ever need more room for other spells, there're already tons of anti-illusion spells and this one is too high level to be a truly cheaper alternative to true see.

So well, I don't have more ideas to make it appealing :/

 

Spell Shield

I hadn't update the first post regarding the discussion on this spell...the latest suggestions were to make it grant "always successfully save + immunity to magic/elemental damage" for a limited time (e.g. 5 rounds).

Cool. Not dispellable?

 

Flesh to Stone

I'm at loss with this damn spell.

Ah leave it as it is.

 

Sphere of Chaos

I think I'll use 20% chance for each of the following effects: berserk, confusion, fear, sleep, and wild surge.

Err, sleep? plz no, almost everything is immune to that by the time you reach that level I'd vote for slow or some damage. Is it party friendly right?

 

Energy Drain

More recent discussions on this thread lead me to the following proposed solutions:

 

1) drain 1 level per round while curing the caster of 5 hp each time. I'd say it shouldn't last more than 10 rounds.

 

2) similarly to Blackrazor's Souldrinking ability it may also grant the caster some bonuses like increased statistics, saves, etc.

 

What do you think? Any another suggestion?

 

First one is exagerated, 10 levels no save no mr... level drain penalities aren't easy to notice but it's a huge loss in saves for the target so having them transferred to the caster as for 2nd option seems nice. I'd say +50 hp +5 saves for 1 turn?

 

FreedomWell...Freedom doesn't remind me Improved Haste...a short lasting "Free Action" may be more appropriate.

But you could use the same level 9 slot to summon a planetar and have it cast long lasting free action on 3 party members too ^^ Random idea thrown: after casting this spell, for 1 turn the caster is able to use a free action every round to move to any point of the map in sight range ( ala Dimension Door ).

 

On a second thought I feel this spell is a moot point much like stone to flesh, nobody is going to waste high level slots in prospective to be hit by a game ending enemy spell. Forgetting about pnp for a moment, what about add a protective ( and dispellable/breachable ) effect for let say 5 turns to both spells. Protection vs maze/imprisonment/everything that hinders movement for freedom and protection from petrification for stone to flesh ?

Note: there're a lot of Freedom scrolls availabe in markets, you might want to make the spell scale with levels so that scrolls are casted at the lowest casterlev and last very short.

[Demivrgvs]

Ghost Armor

Another random idea thrown: every time the caster is hit, he has a 5% chance to turn invisible. 5 turns duration like most arcane buffs.

Same as IR's Cloak of Elvenkind? I'll think about it.

 

Spell Shield

I hadn't update the first post regarding the discussion on this spell...the latest suggestions were to make it grant "always successfully save + immunity to magic/elemental damage" for a limited time (e.g. 5 rounds).

Cool. Not dispellable?

I'm not sure...I'd like to know more opinions before making such a spell undispellable, I fear it would be too powerful.

 

Sphere of Chaos

I think I'll use 20% chance for each of the following effects: berserk, confusion, fear, sleep, and wild surge.

Err, sleep? plz no, almost everything is immune to that by the time you reach that level I'd vote for slow or some damage. Is it party friendly right?

Yeah, I made it party friendly since V1. I don't like to add a "damaging" effect, but slow may be ok. Are you sure sleep is such a weak effect? Emotion and Greater Command were great in vanilla, and they both use 'sleep' opcode.

 

Energy Drain

1) drain 1 level per round while curing the caster of 5 hp each time. I'd say it shouldn't last more than 10 rounds.

 

2) similarly to Blackrazor's Souldrinking ability it may also grant the caster some bonuses like increased statistics, saves, etc.

First one is exagerated, 10 levels no save no mr... level drain penalities aren't easy to notice but it's a huge loss in saves for the target so having them transferred to the caster as for 2nd option seems nice. I'd say +50 hp +5 saves for 1 turn?

Well, the first one was a suggestion...capping it at 5 rounds may just be fine. Anyway I probably slightly prefer the second suggestion.

 

In PnP each level drained causes:

* - 1 to abilities (which I would translate in 5% bonus on thieving skills in BG)

* - 1 to attack rolls

* - 1 to saves

* - 5 hit points

 

I'd vote for 4 drained levels which would grant to the caster (for 1 turn):

* +20% bonus on thieving skills

* + 4 to attack rolls

* + 4 to saves

* + 20 hit points

 

Freedom

Forgetting about pnp for a moment, what about add a protective ( and dispellable/breachable ) effect for let say 5 turns to both spells. Protection vs maze/imprisonment/everything that hinders movement for freedom and protection from petrification for stone to flesh ?

This is more or less what I was trying to suggest...an "improved mass free action + chaotic commands". Duration should be quite limited imo. What players think about it?

 

I'd also like to know your opinions on a few HLAs like Dragon's Breath and Implosion.

[Raj]

I'm not sure...I'd like to know more opinions before making such a spell undispellable, I fear it would be too powerful.

 

With such limited duration shoudn't be a so big issue, the point is keeping its usefulness against beholders while avoiding the cheese.

 

Sphere of Chaos

Are you sure sleep is such a weak effect? Emotion and Greater Command were great in vanilla, and they both use 'sleep' opcode.

They were great in early SoA against most humanoid opponents, but chaos sphere is a level 7 so I see myself using it for chap 5/6/ToB, not for chap 2 quests.

 

Energy Drain

In PnP each level drained causes:

* - 1 to abilities (which I would translate in 5% bonus on thieving skills in BG)

* - 1 to attack rolls

* - 1 to saves

* - 5 hit points

Do you know how does it work in BG2?

I'd vote for 4 drained levels which would grant to the caster (for 1 turn):

* +20% bonus on thieving skills

* + 4 to attack rolls

* + 4 to saves

* + 20 hit points

Seems reasonable.

I'd also like to know your opinions on a few HLAs like Dragon's Breath and Implosion.

Haven't them been discussed already? -6 to the save, less damage, DB still bypasses mr, Implo won't...

[Ardanis]

Spell Shield

Undispellable autosave for 4-6 rounds seems balanced to me. Still, even despite the spell being bugged I can't say I'm that much for altering it. Antimagic spells are very cheap compared to spell protections. Undecided, really.

 

Freedom

an "improved mass free action + chaotic commands". Duration should be quite limited imo

Probably still not worth memorizing. But quite close, so maybe it is.

 

Oracle

I certainly think it's of better use now (though I've yet to bother learning one, True Sight leaves it no breath). Same as antimagic - one may spend a full turn buffing, then BAM. One single 'removal type' spell and they're all gone.

[SixOfSpades]

Energy Drain

In PnP each level drained causes:

* - 1 to abilities (which I would translate in 5% bonus on thieving skills in BG)

* - 1 to attack rolls

* - 1 to saves

* - 5 hit points

 

I'd vote for 4 drained levels which would grant to the caster (for 1 turn):

* +20% bonus on thieving skills

* + 4 to attack rolls

* + 4 to saves

* + 20 hit points

Actually, if we're talking ToB levels here, kicking a character down 4 levels would have no effect on THAC0 or Saves at all, as they both stop increasing near the SoA/ToB transition, and even a Warrior would only lose 12hp, not 20. But having the spell benefit the caster by only 12hp isn't very appealing, so . . .

Crazy, labor-intensive idea: Have the spell check the class of the target creature, and grant the caster some of the relevant strengths that might have been stolen from that creature. If the target is a Fighter, the caster gets some bonus THAC0 and a nice hp boost. If the target is a Mage, the caster gets some of his spellslots re-memorized and a much smaller hp boost. I realize most of the monsters in the game have Classes like 'Sahuagin,' but basically that just translates to Fighter anyway--if you're really insane, you could make Energy Drain steal some specific abilities: Cast it on a Mind Flayer, and you might gain an innate Psionic Blast (1 use only).

[Guest guest]

Will freedom still have its normal effect as well as these changes? Because you'd still need that at times, e.g. freeing that mage in the underdark and obviously for your own party.

 

That ghost armour -turning invis suggestions sounds good, but will it work? Like if your character is attacking and is hit, effect triggers, but then does the game stop you attacking? Otherwise you'd "waste" that invis straight away because you could have done other stuff - outflanked the enemy or something. How does it work?

[Salk]

Ghost Armor

Another random idea thrown: every time the caster is hit, he has a 5% chance to turn invisible. 5 turns duration like most arcane buffs.

Same as IR's Cloak of Elvenkind? I'll think about it.

 

Not so interesting.

 

Even because the Cloak of Elvenkind in IR does the same and it's good to avoid duplications as much as possible.

 

Changing it to be similar to Death Armor is also not very appealing, I think.

 

Ghost Armor has always had its charm the way it was and I don't think that it needs any modification.

 

In short: the SR v2 spell looks very fine to me.

 

P.S. How is the Find Familiar revision doing?

[Demivrgvs]

Spell Shield

I'm not sure...I'd like to know more opinions before making such a spell undispellable, I fear it would be too powerful.

With such limited duration shoudn't be a so big issue, the point is keeping its usefulness against beholders while avoiding the cheese.

Undispellable autosave for 4-6 rounds seems balanced to me. Still, even despite the spell being bugged I can't say I'm that much for altering it. Antimagic spells are very cheap compared to spell protections. Undecided, really.

I know...I'm really sad I can't fix this spell, but I would never use it in its current bugged status. Anyway it seems the "undispellability" doesn't scare any of you...

 

Sphere of Chaos

Are you sure sleep is such a weak effect? Emotion and Greater Command were great in vanilla, and they both use 'sleep' opcode.

They were great in early SoA against most humanoid opponents, but chaos sphere is a level 7 so I see myself using it for chap 5/6/ToB, not for chap 2 quests.

Actually I used them against pratically any kind of opponent (e.g. yuan-Ti, minotaur, drow), though some of the most powerful ones are conveniently immune. Anyway the effects this spell can cause are 5-6, thus removing sleep only because it's ineffective against some type of creatures doesn't seem too fair. Just like Prismatic Spray has some rays which are more effective than others this spell offers various effects with various degrees of effectiveness, but still giving the advantage that it may cause sleep on a creature which was immune to confusion.

 

Energy Drain

In PnP each level drained causes:

* - 1 to abilities (which I would translate in 5% bonus on thieving skills in BG)

* - 1 to attack rolls

* - 1 to saves

* - 5 hit points

Do you know how does it work in BG2?

Actually, if we're talking ToB levels here, kicking a character down 4 levels would have no effect on THAC0 or Saves at all, as they both stop increasing near the SoA/ToB transition, and even a Warrior would only lose 12hp, not 20. But having the spell benefit the caster by only 12hp isn't very appealing, so . . .

Exactly...that's unfortunate but only against creatures with 20HD or less the spell works as intended. Though even at higher levels it may still remove some high level spell slots from casters, which is quite effective imo.

 

I'd vote for 4 drained levels which would grant to the caster (for 1 turn):

* +20% bonus on thieving skills

* + 4 to attack rolls

* + 4 to saves

* + 20 hit points

Seems reasonable.

 

Crazy, labor-intensive idea: Have the spell check the class of the target creature, and grant the caster some of the relevant strengths that might have been stolen from that creature. If the target is a Fighter, the caster gets some bonus THAC0 and a nice hp boost. If the target is a Mage, the caster gets some of his spellslots re-memorized and a much smaller hp boost. I realize most of the monsters in the game have Classes like 'Sahuagin,' but basically that just translates to Fighter anyway--if you're really insane, you could make Energy Drain steal some specific abilities: Cast it on a Mind Flayer, and you might gain an innate Psionic Blast (1 use only).

You don't know how I'm glad to discover once more that I'm not the only crazy guy around here...I thought about the the very same thing this evening! Well...except the "stole innate abilities" which is really too much even for my imagination! The latter suggestion would be absurdly painful to code, useless for the AI, and not even appropriate for a necromancy spell imo. The former suggestion is potentially very interesting imo, but I'd leave it alone for now...let's take a few steps at a time.

 

Dragon's Breath and Implosion

Haven't them been discussed already? -6 to the save, less damage, DB still bypasses mr, Implo won't...

Yeah, we didn't discussed it too much, and though we seemed to agree, "we" included only me and you! Anyway if no one else has an opinion on this matter I'll do it that way.

 

Freedom

an "improved mass free action + chaotic commands". Duration should be quite limited imo

Probably still not worth memorizing. But quite close, so maybe it is.

Not worth? I feared it was too much...we're talking about a spell which grants to the entire party Free Action + Chaotic Commands + protection from Imprisonment & Petrification, and eventually cures any party member afflicted by hold, stun, petrification, and so on! Are you sure it's not worth memorizing?

 

Will freedom still have its normal effect as well as these changes? Because you'd still need that at times, e.g. freeing that mage in the underdark and obviously for your own party.

Indeed, the spell would cure any effect against which it also grants protection.

 

Familiars

P.S. How is the Find Familiar revision doing?

I've left them as last thing to do, and potentially they are the hardest. I wrote a few months ago a PM to Rabain to know if I could use his work on WTP...I guess I should consider that project "abandoned" and just try to use the material to speed up my work. In that case I think I'd only need to change a lot of stats/files, and modify the scripts for the level up routine...all of which may take only one day if I happen to have a free day.

[Ardanis]

Freedom

we're talking about a spell which ... eventually cures any party member afflicted by hold, stun, petrification, and so on!

My fault, mass cure for such things is indeed worth 9th slot.