SR V2.9

[Demivrgvs]

No one else posted on this matter thus my following proposed solution for Insect spells is clearly inspired by Six's suggestions.

 

Summon Insects, Insect Plague & Creeping Doom

We stated a few things:

- I want to allow a save against spell failure each round (it makes more sense, and it's more balanced imo);

- I suggested to make damage take place only once per round to allow characters who successfully save to cast a spell without having it disrupted by the damage output. The downside of it was that imo it makes more sense for the insects to deal small amount of damage multiple times instead of a noticeable amount at the end of each round;

- Six suggested to make save vs. breath prominent for this spell.

 

And thus I've come up with the following suggestion:

- each round damage is dealt two times, once in the middle of the round, and then at the end of the round. A save vs. breath reduces damage to half, effectively removing the first of the two damage outputs. For example Summon Insects deals 1D3 points of damage after 3 seconds and another 1D3 after 6, but a character successfully saving avoids most bites and suffer only 1D3 points of damage at the end of the round.

- a character successfully saving vs. breath also avoids 100% spell failure, thus coupled with no damage in the middle of the round allows him/her to normally cast a spell that round

- panic effect will be added to Summon Insects, saves vs. death against these effects will use the bonus/penalties as previously mentioned (+2, 0, and -2 respectively).

- combat penalties will be added to Insect Plague and Creeping Doom as previously mentioned (no save will be allowed to negate them).

 

I do like this solution and I sincerely hope that it pleases most of you as well.

 

We may have to discuss the most appropriate damage output now that it can be halved. Do you prefer fix values (e.g. 2 points) or random values (e.g. 1D3)? I prefer the latter which imo symbolically represents that you may get from 1 to 3 small bites.

I think 1D3 points of damage every 3 seconds is enough for Summon Insects, while I'm uncertain about the 5th and 7th level version of the spell. Insect Plague currently deals as much damage as the 3rd level spell (with the noticeable advantage of affecting all opponents within 30 feet), would it be enough or should it be raised? I think it's enough considering the spell has a large friendly AoE and multiple effective disabling effects (6D6 points of damage + spell failure + panic + combat penalties) . Creeping Doom should be fine with 1D6 every 3 seconds, which means 12D6 points of damage in 6 rounds. It should be mentioned imo that the damage dealt by these spells is "piercing damage", and almost no creatures are resistant to this type of damage (golems aren't affected by spells anyway).

[Raj]

I do like this solution and I sincerely hope that it pleases most of you as well.

 

It does. Damage values are more a aestethic issue as those spells are most used for the other effects, do as you wish there is no wrong solution ^^

[Ardanis]

Ditto.

 

coupled with no damage in the middle of the round allows him/her to normally cast a spell that round

The only thing left is to fix poison damage this way. Sadly, there're seem to be way too many sources of it, not only spells.

[Raj]

What about revising HLA a bit? Nothing drastic because there're other mods for that, just modify the save adding a penality, in order to bring them in line with SR other spells. Then if you could recognize Refinements installed too...

[Demivrgvs]

What about revising HLA a bit? Nothing drastic because there're other mods for that, just modify the save adding a penality, in order to bring them in line with SR other spells. Then if you could recognize Refinements installed too...

If you mean priests and mages HLAs I've already included them in V2 (there's a topic dedicated to them), and I'm slightly revising them once again for V3 yes.

[Demivrgvs]

I've finished a few more spells and I've also come up with some possible new feature for an immensely underused spell.

 

Stone to Flesh

The first possible addition is actually taken from PnP, though it may vary how it is implemented, the latter would be an incredible convenient feature:

- Stone Golems may be affected by the spell. In AD&D the spell reduces a Stone Golem's resistances to 0 for 1 turn (slashing, piercing, fire, ... ) though the creature is still immune to mind-affecting spells, in 3rd edition the spell can transform a Stone Golem in a Flesh Golem (not so useful imo unless for some reason it also makes it under caster's control, which I suppose isn't intended).

- wait for it...what about making the spell also work as a Stoneskin castable on others? After all the spell is supposed to transform stone into skin. I know this is quite much (a useless spell would suddenly become a must have!), and it still surprises me that I've been able to think about something like that!

 

Armor of Faith, Bless & Doom

I always considered Bless not druidic at all, but we stick at AD&D sphere system druids should have it. Druids shouldn't even have Doom, and Armor of Faith. Let me know if you think some of these spells really shouldn't be available to druids.

 

Faerie Fire

Added to druid's 1st level spells. Pratically a lesser Glitterdust, with even smaller AoE (5 feet raadius), and -2 AC instead of blindness.

 

Strength of Stone

Added to druid's 1st level spells. As 2nd level wizard's Strentgh, though we may add something to it in the feature to slightly differentiate it (e.g. reduced movement rate).

 

Sunscorch

Added to druid's 1st level spells. As per Divine Remix.

[Salk]

Demivrgvs,

 

noone could ever say that you lack vision, my friend.

 

Stone to Flesh

 

- The first addition would be welcome. Its scope is limited but it makes sense. I am speaking of the AD&D addition here.

 

- The second one doesn't seem to make much sense because, as you said, the spell is supposed to turn stone into skin and not viceversa. At most you could propose this crazy addition for the spell "Flesh to Stone" instead...

 

Armor of Faith, Bless & Doom

 

I think none of these should be druidic.

 

Good job for the druidic additions. I hope you can manage to have the bams retouched in a neat way because the IWD ones are really a punch in the eye when compared to the standard BG bams. At worst, you can still ask for help at SHS' RRF (http://www.shsforums.net/index.php?showforum=457)

[Ardanis]

Stone to Flesh

Perhaps dispelling an active Stone Skin? Would be okay against liches (provided they use SS at all) and for bypassing SI:Abj. That's dispelling a single spell though, and all the complexities included.

 

Armor of Faith

Taking this away from Jaheira? Her having AoF+Hardiness is one on the small list of reasons why I ever keep her in party. My powergaming half would rather not to strip druids of this.

[Demivrgvs]

Armor of Faith, Bless & Doom

I think none of these should be druidic.

Taking this away from Jaheira? Her having AoF+Hardiness is one on the small list of reasons why I ever keep her in party. My powergaming half would rather not to strip druids of this.

And your roleplaying half? Anyway I'm not particularly biased on this matter, the strange thing is that the least appropriate spell imo is Bless, and in AD&D is the only spell of these three available to druids.

 

Shillelagh

As previously proposed I've made its enchantment level increase with caster level. Starts at +1 an improves every 6 levels up to +4 at 18th level. Deals crushing damage (it's an actual weapon created via Alteration spell), allow strength bonuses.

 

Spiritual Hammer

As previously proposed I've made its enchantment level increase with caster level. Starts at +1 an improves every 5 levels up to +5 at 20th level. Deals crushing damage, can hit targets with medium range, doesn't allow strength bonuses. This hammer should actually deal magic damage as per PnP, it's a hammer made of pure force with an Evocation spell, do you agree?

 

Stone to Flesh

- The second one doesn't seem to make much sense because, as you said, the spell is supposed to turn stone into skin and not viceversa. At most you could propose this crazy addition for the spell "Flesh to Stone" instead...

Well, defending my suggestion isn't easy. Anyway, I see Stone to Flesh more like a "Alter Rock" or somthing like that, and Stoneskin is still a rock-like skin, not actual stone, else the character would be a statue. That is why I thought Stoneskin would be ok...but I have no problems discarding the idea.

 

Perhaps dispelling an active Stone Skin? Would be okay against liches (provided they use SS at all) and for bypassing SI:Abj. That's dispelling a single spell though, and all the complexities included.

Not doable.

[SixOfSpades]

Summon Insects, Insect Plague, Creeping Doom

Actually, the way I've coded Insect spells now has made possible to make Fire Shield, Fireball and the like "dispel" them...though only at the end of a round (e.g. a fireball is cast and at the end of that round Insects are dispelled). I'll try to work on that for V3 if you'd like.

The fact that it occurs at the end of a round is a little bit wonky, but a vast improvement over the original. Good catch with the FireShield, too. Did you code the AoE spells to remove the specific Insect spells themselves (SPPR313, etc.), or all spells that use the Insect projectiles / secondary type?

 

No one else has commented on these spells and what the saves should do, thus we're free to do what we prefer.

Goody. Including what you said in post #151, I think this seems ideal:

Summon Insects: Casting Time 5, 6 rounds, 2D3 Piercing/round (Save vs. Breath +1 penalty for half, each round), 33% Spell Failure (Save Breath +1 penalty to avoid, each round), Fear (Save vs. Breath to avoid, each round), +1 penalties to THAC0 & AC.

Insect Plague: Casting Time 7, 6 rounds, 2D3 Piercing/Round (Save vs. Breath +2 penalty for half, each round), 50% Spell Failure (Save Breath +2 penalty to avoid, each round), Fear (Save vs. Breath +1 penalty to avoid, each round), +2 THAC0 penalty, +1 AC penalty.

Creeping Doom: Casting Time 9, 6 rounds, 2D6 Piercing/Round (Save vs. Breath +3 penalty for half, each round), 66% Spell Failure (Save Breath +3 penalty to avoid, each round), Fear (Save vs. Breath +2 penalty to avoid, each round), +2 penalties to THAC0 & AC.

I'm considering having Creeping Doom also force victims to Save vs. Death or take a small amount of Poison, but I'm not married to the idea.

 

I've reduced Skull Trap's damage to 1D4/level but due to its type of damage it's still better than Fireball at higher levels. One way to balance them even more would be to increase Skull Trap's casting time to be more like Fire Trap, Glyph of Warding, Symbols and the like.

Only if it's no longer a staple spell of Yuan-Ti Mages. Those idiots kill way too many of their allies as it is.

 

Not Dolorous Decay any more

Obviously I already thought about it, and I would'nt allow multiple Decays to stack. Still, I'd like to hear more opinions on the "plague" effect.

I've decided that I like the "if you've had it once, you're immune to it forever" idea, it'd certainly be unique in the game. How about this:

Plague (Cleric & Druid but non-Good casters only, Necromancy, Necromantic Sphere)

Level: 6

Casting time: 9

The single target of this spell must make a successful Saving Throw vs. Death with a +3 penalty or be stricken with a crippling illness: His Strength, Dexterity, and Armor Class are all weakened by one point and his Constitution and THAC0 by two points, and every round, he will lose 10% of his current hitpoints, until he recieves a Cure Disease spell. In addition, the sickness is highly contagious: For each round the target remains infected, all creatures that pass within 15 feet of him must Save vs. Death or fall victim to the disease themselves. If an infected creature should survive this wasting plague, however, they will remain immune to it for the rest of their lives.

 

Wicked idea: The spell works slightly differently on Innocents, incorporating an instakill effect after they've been diseased for 1 turn. The Reputation loss for spreading the plague should be quite interesting.

 

Lightning Bolt

Okay, a single-target-but-with-small-AoE sounds all right, but there are already plenty of things that cause Stun. Since an electrical shock plays hell with your nervous system, what about an unavoidable +4 penalty to Speed Factor and 40% Casting Failure, both for about 2 rounds but nonstackable?

 

Spell Shield

I don't like too much the idea of a specific anti-Beholder feature. If the spell happen to be effective against them I'm fine, but a specific reference is unappropriate imo.

Okay. Maybe somebody could make a new spell/item that does roughly the same thing, as we certainly need a balanced way to fight Beholders.

 

Summon Nishruu/Hakeashar

They are somewhat effective yes (SR's gives them physical resistance and a feebleminding attack too), but I don't see them as particularly powerful considering their spell level. Especially the Hakeashar isn't too much appealing if you compare it to other summons available with a 7th level spell: Mordenkainen's Sword, Cacofiend.

A Dispelling Aura certainly makes a lot more sense than a Feeblemind ability, that's for sure. I guess it wouldn't be too unbalanced, if you based it on the Nishruu/Hakeashar's Hit Dice.

 

Control Undead

Well...both would allow to control multiple Death Knights...which may be a little too much considering SCS cast them quite often.

Then maybe it's worth a tweak to SCS's AI, so that after you Control Undead, the bad guys can Control them right back? (Especially considering how often the party is likely to summon Skeleton Warriors.)

 

Minor Spell Sequencer, Spell Sequencer & Spell Trigger

Casting glows, sounds and animations lasts only 9 or 10, after that it becomes a little weird to see a caster moving the hands in the air with no sounds, and spell's animations.

As we're turning these into non-combat spells, I don't really think that's going to be an issue. Or maybe we're barking up the wrong tree here--can't we just flag the spells as non-castable during combat, after which casting time automatically becomes moot?

 

Black Blade of Disaster

Anyway, how were you supposed to defend against it before? By casting PfMW a few instants before Time Stop triggers? That would be the only thing the new BBoD would prevent in such a situation.

Yeah, and (as far as I know, anyway) it's the only trick that the AI knows against BBoD: Cast PfMW and you're immune. But hey, maybe SCS teaches them to cast Teleport Field more often.

 

Dragon's Breath

I do agree on this matter, but it's not just SCS's AI, every script ever created considers DB a friendly-AoE spell, and I can't so easily alter mod added scripts...

Well, poopie. Oh, well, it's a HLA after all.

 

Protection from Poison

I've already included it somehow, 4th level Neutralize Poison grants immunity to poison for 1 turn.

Good, I'm just of the opinion that it deserves a full-duration protection, the same as the other elements. It should only be available to Priests, though, if only for the purpose of not allowing Liches to make themselves immune to everything.

 

Improve it [Death Spell] a bit maybe? ( like allowing to kill creatures up to casterlev/2 or casterlev-4, with a save for those higher than 8, or creating a death zone for enemies summoned later... )

Hear, hear. I've never understood (or liked) Death Spell's draconian rules about Hit Dice and Summon status. I for one would much prefer the difference between the caster's level and your level be used as the basis for your Save vs. Death bonus/penalty against this spell. And why the hell are Summons more likely to fall to this spell than normal creatures? I'd lose that part entirely. As for Death Spell killing Beholders/Illithids/whatever, I'd say their stats (including HD) should be randomized somewhat.

 

Protection from Evil

. . . Pit Fiends can cast Dispel Magic at will, they would just be able to dispel it anyway. SCS pratically only makes it more "user-friendly", and having a 24HD creature constantly cast Dispel Magic on the party would be even more annoying imo; Thus I think that though it's sub-optimal SCS's change is an improvement in terms of gameplay.

An improvement it may be, though nowhere near as much of an improvement as it could have been, given that Weimer implemented the correct solution years ago: If Liches are smart enough to detect that they're being attacked by someone that they can't see, and therefore cast Dispel/Remove Magic on themselves, why the hell can't Demons do the same thing? That certainly beats jerking Pit Fiends around so that Cavaliers don't get their proper combat bonuses against them.

 

Time Stop

Well...in PnP the spell lasts 1D3 rounds but I'm quite sure most players wouldn't like it, am I wrong?

I would like it only if there were some way to inform the player of how long each casting was going to last. Having the caster glow different colors depending on how much time is left, perhaps? Enemies could still use the 3-round version, to avoid breaking their AI.

 

Meteor Swarm

I've thought about it a little more and this change would have two side effects:

- some creatures (e.g. Pit Fiends) currently cast it over themselves because they are immune to fire, thus I would have to check every instance of this event and make the creature completely immune to the spell via "protection from spell" opcode. The problem is that I would also have to check if there's any spellcaster that does it after casting Protection from Fire or similar things...

- the spell is not party friendly, but as a fire-only spell you were able to make a character immune to fire and cast Meteor Swarm anyway. This wouldn't be possible if we add crushing damage.

Oh, for the love of Pete. I now officially have "Fire-damage over a 30-foot radius Level 9 Wizard spell that we can't change because it would screw with the AI" Fatigue.

 

Stone to Flesh

Perhaps dispelling an active Stone Skin? Would be okay against liches (provided they use SS at all) and for bypassing SI:Abj. That's dispelling a single spell though, and all the complexities included.

Not doable.

I remember reading that casting Barkskin on a Stoneskinned (or possibly Ironskinned, though they use the same opcode) creature would remove the Stoneskins. Never tested it myself, and I admit it certainly does sound fishy, but it deserves a mention here. I agree, though, casting Stone to Flesh to give somebody Stoneskins just doesn't fly. It sounds more like something you would cast on your Sling Bullets when you're running low on meatballs.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Minor Spell Sequencer, Spell Sequencer & Spell Trigger

As we're turning these into non-combat spells, I don't really think that's going to be an issue. Or maybe we're barking up the wrong tree here--can't we just flag the spells as non-castable during combat, after which casting time automatically becomes moot?

Not the truth, as there is always the "let's hide" button(potion), for single mage attacker, of course this is prevented by the SCSs omniscient AI, but encouraging that behaviour is also bad...

 

Lightning Bolt

Okay, a single-target-but-with-small-AoE sounds all right, but there are already plenty of things that cause Stun. Since an electrical shock plays hell with your nervous system, what about an unavoidable +4 penalty to Speed Factor and 40% Casting Failure, both for about 2 rounds but nonstackable?

That sounds cool, even without the stun/area effect. But perhaps it should be 50% casting failure for one round on the LB, while Chain Lightning should have the proposed effect.

[Demivrgvs]

Firstly another crazy idea mine.

 

Spell Shield

What about a spell-equivalent of PfMW? Caster automatically saves against any spell, and is immune to magical sources of damage (fire, cold, ...) for 4 rounds.

 

Summon Insects, Insect Plague, Creeping Doom

Actually, the way I've coded Insect spells now has made possible to make Fire Shield, Fireball and the like "dispel" them...though only at the end of a round (e.g. a fireball is cast and at the end of that round Insects are dispelled). I'll try to work on that for V3 if you'd like.

The fact that it occurs at the end of a round is a little bit wonky, but a vast improvement over the original. Good catch with the FireShield, too. Did you code the AoE spells to remove the specific Insect spells themselves (SPPR313, etc.), or all spells that use the Insect projectiles / secondary type?

Insects spells now cast a secondary spell each round, and the spells which should "dispel" insects may add to the affected characters a temporary protection from these secondary spell. Anyway I'm still not sure about the solution because it clashes with another tweak for Protection from Fire spell. In V3 these type of spells should grant complete immunity from spells which deals the respective type of damage, and Protection from Fire would end up making the recipient immune to "dispel insect" effect too. Anyway this may be not so bad, as if the target doesn't suffer fire damage we may assume insects aren't affected either.

 

I'm note sure if this feature will be fully implemented for V3, but adding it to Fire Shields is much more easy and I'll probably do at least that.

 

Goody. Including what you said in post #151, I think this seems ideal:...

And here's how I've made them:

Summon Insects: Casting Time 9, 6 rounds, 2D3 Piercing/round (Save vs. Breath -2 penalty for half, each round), 100% Spell Failure (Save Breath -2 penalty to avoid, each round), Panic (Save vs. Death at +2 bonus to avoid, each round), -2 penalties to THAC0 & AC.

Insect Plague: Casting Time 9, 6 rounds, 2D3 Piercing/Round (Save vs. Breath +2 penalty for half, each round), 100% Spell Failure (Save Breath +2 penalty to avoid, each round), Panic (Save vs. Death to avoid, each round), -2 penalties to THAC0 & AC.

Creeping Doom: Casting Time 9, 6 rounds, 2D6 Piercing/Round (Save vs. Breath -6 penalty for half, each round), 100% Spell Failure (Save Breath -6 penalty to avoid, each round), Panic (Save vs. Death -2 penalty to avoid, each round), -2 penalties to THAC0 & AC.

 

Considering it's not so rare to successfully save I don't like the idea of reduced % on spell failure, it doesn't make much sense imo to allow a mage who fails his save to have a quite good chance of ignoring spell failure anyway. Panic effect should keep its separate save vs. death imo.

 

I'm considering having Creeping Doom also force victims to Save vs. Death or take a small amount of Poison, but I'm not married to the idea.

I'm not sure Creeping Doom needs further improvements, it seems pretty solid for a 7th level spell.

 

Skull Trap

I've reduced Skull Trap's damage to 1D4/level but due to its type of damage it's still better than Fireball at higher levels. One way to balance them even more would be to increase Skull Trap's casting time to be more like Fire Trap, Glyph of Warding, Symbols and the like.

Only if it's no longer a staple spell of Yuan-Ti Mages. Those idiots kill way too many of their allies as it is.

Well, that's not my fault, but with my changes they are surely going to kill a few less allies.

 

Dolorous Decay

How about this:

Plague (Cleric & Druid but non-Good casters only, Necromancy, Necromantic Sphere)

Level: 6

Casting time: 9

The single target of this spell must make a successful Saving Throw vs. Death with a +3 penalty or be stricken with a crippling illness: His Strength, Dexterity, and Armor Class are all weakened by one point and his Constitution and THAC0 by two points, and every round, he will lose 10% of his current hitpoints, until he recieves a Cure Disease spell. In addition, the sickness is highly contagious: For each round the target remains infected, all creatures that pass within 15 feet of him must Save vs. Death or fall victim to the disease themselves. If an infected creature should survive this wasting plague, however, they will remain immune to it for the rest of their lives.

I wouldn't go as far as granting permanent immunity, I think just preventing it from stacking is enough. Regarding how the spell deals damage I've already said a few times that I cannot make it inflict % damage with a "disease" opcode.

 

Lightning Bolt & Flame Arrow

Okay, a single-target-but-with-small-AoE sounds all right, but there are already plenty of things that cause Stun. Since an electrical shock plays hell with your nervous system, what about an unavoidable +4 penalty to Speed Factor and 40% Casting Failure, both for about 2 rounds but nonstackable?

Well...I was keeping it a "secret" because it involves quite a good amount of work but it seems I found out how to make Lightning Bolt bounce to a scondary target and to have Flame Arrow automatically target up to 4 different targets (thanks Galactygon for the input!). I'm currently working to finish all Divine spells first, when I get back to effectively work on arcane ones I'll talk about it a little more.

 

Summon Nishruu/Hakeashar

A Dispelling Aura certainly makes a lot more sense than a Feeblemind ability, that's for sure. I guess it wouldn't be too unbalanced, if you based it on the Nishruu/Hakeashar's Hit Dice.

Wouldn't be better to base the dispel chance on a save vs. spell?

 

Minor Spell Sequencer, Spell Sequencer & Spell Trigger

As we're turning these into non-combat spells, I don't really think that's going to be an issue. Or maybe we're barking up the wrong tree here--can't we just flag the spells as non-castable during combat, after which casting time automatically becomes moot?

Not the truth, as there is always the "let's hide" button(potion), for single mage attacker, of course this is prevented by the SCSs omniscient AI, but encouraging that behaviour is also bad...

I don't understand what you mean by "let's hide" button, if you mean that a caster may hide and run away to prepare Sequencers out-of-combat that would work even with a 3 round duration spell.

 

Black Blade of Disaster

Anyway, how were you supposed to defend against it before? By casting PfMW a few instants before Time Stop triggers? That would be the only thing the new BBoD would prevent in such a situation.

Yeah, and (as far as I know, anyway) it's the only trick that the AI knows against BBoD: Cast PfMW and you're immune. But hey, maybe SCS teaches them to cast Teleport Field more often.

Yes, they use Teleport Field more often fortunately. I do think BBoD deserves to be as powerful as per PnP. Keep in mind that to memorize it you have to give up a slot which could be used instead for things like Time Stop, Chain Contingency, Shapechange, Spell Trap, Wail of the Banshee, and HLAs!!

 

Protection from Poison

I've already included it somehow, 4th level Neutralize Poison grants immunity to poison for 1 turn.

Good, I'm just of the opinion that it deserves a full-duration protection, the same as the other elements. It should only be available to Priests, though, if only for the purpose of not allowing Liches to make themselves immune to everything.

It's only available to priests as per vanilla, I've just added the protection effect because else the spell was just identical to the 2nd level version Slow Poison.

 

Death Spell

Improve it [Death Spell] a bit maybe? ( like allowing to kill creatures up to casterlev/2 or casterlev-4, with a save for those higher than 8, or creating a death zone for enemies summoned later... )

Hear, hear. I've never understood (or liked) Death Spell's draconian rules about Hit Dice and Summon status. I for one would much prefer the difference between the caster's level and your level be used as the basis for your Save vs. Death bonus/penalty against this spell. And why the hell are Summons more likely to fall to this spell than normal creatures? I'd lose that part entirely.

Prepare for the famous "can't do it - AI would act weird" lesson! Death Spell really shouldn't have its "auto-kill summons" effect, they add it only for convenience imo, but any AI script use it pratically for that purpose only! I don't like having a "death effect" without a save either, as it's way overpowered in a few cases (against creatures with HD < 9 the spell is better than its 9th level version Wail of Banshee ), and fortunately in 3rd edition they at least allowed targets a save.

 

If all players agree on this matter I may change the spell to affect HD creatures based on caster level, something like "creatures with half the HD/levels of the caster", but all creatures should have a save imo. I really wouldn't remove its usefulness against summons, but it doesn't change the spell much either as most summoned creatures have less than 10HD. We may change the spell to affect "summons with equal or less HD/levels than the caster", effectively making only two summons slightly more resistant (Aerial Servant, and Conjure Elementals).

 

As for Death Spell killing Beholders/Illithids/whatever, I'd say their stats (including HD) should be randomized somewhat.

I'd welcome that, and there was a project on that somewhere (I think it has been abandoned ), but I can't make a spell assuming a non-existant mod is installed.

 

Don't ask me to work on Creature Revisions too!

 

Protection from Evil

. . . Pit Fiends can cast Dispel Magic at will, they would just be able to dispel it anyway. SCS pratically only makes it more "user-friendly", and having a 24HD creature constantly cast Dispel Magic on the party would be even more annoying imo; Thus I think that though it's sub-optimal SCS's change is an improvement in terms of gameplay.

An improvement it may be, though nowhere near as much of an improvement as it could have been, given that Weimer implemented the correct solution years ago: If Liches are smart enough to detect that they're being attacked by someone that they can't see, and therefore cast Dispel/Remove Magic on themselves, why the hell can't Demons do the same thing? That certainly beats jerking Pit Fiends around so that Cavaliers don't get their proper combat bonuses against them.

It doesn't prevent Cavaliers bonuses from doing their job, and the end result is pratically the same if not better than having a high level creature casting tons of dispels at the party everytime a Protection effect is used.

 

Vanilla's Protection from Undead was uber-cheesy anyway as liches are pratically the only undead creatures able to counter it with a dispel. It's incredibly lame imo to be able to destroy a horde of undead while they stand there unable to react only because of a not so rare scroll. And it's even more lame imo to allow a 1st level spell to do the same against powerful demonic creatures.

 

PnP version of Protection from Evil is an entirely different matter, and I wouldn't complain about it because it doesn't allow hostile actions, but it's not implementable.

 

Stone to Flesh

I won't defend my crazy idea anymore after this, the idea only come up as I discovered a similar 6th level spell in the Spell Compendium book, Stone Body, which transforms the body into living stone, granting similar effects to the more famous 8th level spell Iron Body. If the name of the spell is the only problem we could have changed both name and description imo as I haven't found a single mention of "Stone to Flesh" in the entire game's dialog file. Anyway, for what I care this spell can remain as useless as it is.

[Ardanis]

Spell Shield

I think Anvil uses it in it's AI, but not too sure. Nonetheless, the idea is interesting to say the least. IIRC there was an autosave (heh, the game automatically saves against player's Stupidity ) mentioned before in regard os Spell Shield which I do adore.

 

to have Flame Arrow automatically target up to 4 different targets

Via projectiles?

 

Death Spell

If all players agree on this matter I may change the spell to affect HD creatures based on caster level, something like "creatures with half the HD/levels of the caster", but all creatures should have a save imo. I really wouldn't remove its usefulness against summons, but it doesn't change the spell much either as most summoned creatures have less than 10HD. We may change the spell to affect "summons with equal or less HD/levels than the caster", effectively making only two summons slightly more resistant (Aerial Servant, and Conjure Elementals).

Allowing a save does seem more balanced to me. Otherwise it'll keep being "you've summoned something? oh, fine, let me unsummon it back right away". As for killing packs of beholders, I surely won't strip myself of the pleasure to kill them via traditional means, but... I feel somewhat uneasy with such a change.

 

Don't ask me to work on Creature Revisions too!

Don't forget about AI Revision so that all of the "it'll screw the AI" issues will be eliminated

 

(Ardanis @ Dec 21 2008, 10:34 PM)

Perhaps dispelling an active Stone Skin? Would be okay against liches (provided they use SS at all) and for bypassing SI:Abj. That's dispelling a single spell though, and all the complexities included.

Not doable.

Unless you meant "freakingly unelegant" it's possible. Using a new secondary type (at 0x27) for SS will render it removable by one of "remove secondary type" opcodes. Still, I see it as a last resort that's not to be abused.

I'm not trying to convince you to do it for Stone to Flesh, of course, just am making myself to look smart

[Salk]

Spell Shield

 

I think this idea is less "crazy" than the other one...

 

Death Spell

 

I don't agree with the change to have the spell affect creatures based on the caster level but I agree with alloawing a save for the creatures that could be based on the caster level (don't know if it's doable).

 

That is, the spell should be effective against all summoned creatures, but the save that the creatures have changes depending on the level of the caster (obviously, the higher the more difficult to save against).

 

Protection from Evil

 

"PnP version of Protection from Evil is an entirely different matter, and I wouldn't complain about it because it doesn't allow hostile actions, but it's not implementable."

 

This is one of my biggest disappointments ever about a spell revision that can't be done...

[SixOfSpades]

That sounds cool, even without the stun/area effect. But perhaps it should be 50% casting failure for one round on the LB, while Chain Lightning should have the proposed effect.

Yeah, that works. How about they both cause Speed Factor / Casting Failure penalties that decay over time? Something like this:

Lightning Bolt) Round 1: +3 to SF, +15% CF. Round 2: +2 to SF, +10% CF. Round 3: +1 to SF, +5% CF.

Chain Lightning) Round 1: +4 to SF, +20% CF. Round 2: +3 to SF, +15% CF. Round 3: +2 to SF, +10% CF. Round 4: +1 to SF, +5% CF.

 

Spell ShieldWhat about a spell-equivalent of PfMW? Caster automatically saves against any spell, and is immune to magical sources of damage (fire, cold, ...) for 4 rounds.

That sounds appealing. I rarely use spell protections, but this would make Spell Shield somewhat tempting. I don't know about Improved Anvil, but some other AIs do use Spell Shield (although admittedly, the only one I know for sure is Kuroisan, sorry), so maybe you could include the original "will protect against 1 anti-protection spell" effect as well as the new "magic immunity" effects.

 

Summon Insects, Insect Plague, Creeping Doom

Considering it's not so rare to successfully save I don't like the idea of reduced % on spell failure, it doesn't make much sense imo to allow a mage who fails his save to have a quite good chance of ignoring spell failure anyway. Panic effect should keep its separate save vs. death imo.

Um. I certainly don't mind the Death save on the Panic, but the reason I wanted the Spell Failure on these lowered (to 33, 50 and 66%, respectively) in the first place was so that the Swarm spells could come in above them (at 75 and 100%). I don't mind enemies who fail their Saves still having a decent chance (as much as 67%) to get their spells off, because a 1 in 3 chance to screw up is still quite significant in the heat of battle, and as you said, the bugbite damage itself is going to cause some disruption.

 

Plague

Regarding how the spell deals damage I've already said a few times that I cannot make it inflict % damage with a "disease" opcode.

Hmmm, but we can with the Poison opcode, while the Disease can handle most of the stat penalties--meaning the recipient would need a Neutralize Poison and a Cure Disease, or a Greater Restoration to cover both. Interesting.

 

Lightning Bolt & Flame Arrow

Well...I was keeping it a "secret" because it involves quite a good amount of work but it seems I found out how to make Lightning Bolt bounce to a scondary target and to have Flame Arrow automatically target up to 4 different targets (thanks Galactygon for the input!). I'm currently working to finish all Divine spells first, when I get back to effectively work on arcane ones I'll talk about it a little more.

Nifty!

 

Summon Nishruu/Hakeashar

I guess it wouldn't be too unbalanced, if you based it on the Nishruu/Hakeashar's Hit Dice.

Wouldn't be better to base the dispel chance on a save vs. spell?

I don't think so. I see 2 sources for the Nishruu's power: If it's a creature that hates magic but nevertheless has magicial abilities of its own, then it should cast Dispel Magic just like any other spellcaster, where the odds of a successful Dispel depend on the relative difference between the Nishruu's level and the level of the enemy caster. But if the Nishruu is a living embodiment of Dead Magic, then its ability to create a localized anti-magic zone should, again, depend on its experience level. (For comparison, my version of the Wizard Slayer has such an ability--for every EXP Level of the WS, all nearby creatures have a 2% chance to have all active enchantments dispelled.) Basing on a Save would add randomness, sure, but I think it's out of tune with other sources of Dispel/Remove Magic in the game.

 

Minor Spell Sequencer, Spell Sequencer & Spell Trigger

Not the truth, as there is always the "let's hide" button(potion), for single mage attacker, of course this is prevented by the SCSs omniscient AI, but encouraging that behaviour is also bad...

I don't understand what you mean by "let's hide" button, if you mean that a caster may hide and run away to prepare Sequencers out-of-combat that would work even with a 3 round duration spell.

Jarno, you'd have a point if drinking an Invisibility potion didn't take an entire round--as it is, the player would have to spend 2 rounds, a higher-level spellslot, and a Potion best saved for actual emergencies, in order to cast 3 lower-level spells. I suppose the more hardcore powergamers might consider it worth the trade-off, but the rest of us would see that it makes more sense to just cast them beforehand.

 

Neutralize Poison

It's only available to priests as per vanilla, I've just added the protection effect because else the spell was just identical to the 2nd level version Slow Poison.

Well, that and for some reason it also cures Disease, Blindness & Deafness. I take it you removed those, if you're giving new prominence to Cure Disease? And I think Divine Remix is bringing back Cure Blindness & Deafness? I'm getting muddled between other people's mods, here.

 

Death Spell

Death Spell really shouldn't have its "auto-kill summons" effect, they add it only for convenience imo, but any AI script use it pratically for that purpose only! I don't like having a "death effect" without a save either, as it's way overpowered in a few cases (against creatures with HD < 9 the spell is better than its 9th level version Wail of Banshee ), and fortunately in 3rd edition they at least allowed targets a save.

So pull another fast one: Change the name of SPWI605 to "Banishment" or "Dismissal," and add a new effect: If the single creature it's targeted at is a summon or extraplanar creature, it must be at least 12HD or be immediately slain/unsummoned. At 12HD and above, it is allowed a Save vs. Death based on the difference between its HD and the caster's. The area around the target creature has a lesser anti-summon field, where summons must be at least Level 10 to be entitled to a Saving Throw. The spell has no effect on creatures not summoned or gated. The AI remains unbroken.

Meanwhile, copy Death Spell (and its scrolls) over to a new filename, and extend its effects to all creatures (again, allowing higher-level critters a Save), irrespective of whether or not they're summoned. To avoid wiping out Beholders & the like en masse, we could shrink the area of effect.

 

Protection from Evil

It doesn't prevent Cavaliers bonuses from doing their job, and the end result is pratically the same if not better than having a high level creature casting tons of dispels at the party everytime a Protection effect is used.

Even so, it still doesn't make sense. If the Protection from Creature Type opcode seems made for abuse, it's more logical to remove that from the PfE spells, rather than running around messing with genders. (Additionally, this would mean that the only "true" PfE in the game would be the Staff of the Magi, which only seems fair.) But still, Pit Fiends should be smart enough to know when to use their Dispels anyway.