IA v6 Final

[Distinguished Player]

I can assure you fine folk here at G3 (even though your mods are somewhat subpar compared to the glory of

Improved Anvil) that such low grade abominations such as Dezo (I can't be bothered to spell the name correctly as

I'm about to finish another Anvil solo run) and JMason79 do not reflect the pride, honor, and integrity of the greater

BWL community. Come visit our wondrous fourms to find out for yourself.

 

The Disintiguished Player

Academy Of Tactics Class of '09 Validectorian

[Guest!]

I'm about to finish another Anvil solo run

Naughty naughty.

[Ardanis]

Distinguisehd Player can be using an older version, which supports the solo mode.

[Saros]

A quick add-on - I actually managed to both level up the party to at least one HLA and also to clear WK lvl 1. Of course, took me quite some time to devise a no-reload tactic. But thanx to the fact that I can kill several golems/skeletons and leave the level to rest helped a lot. Used summons as meat shield and mages protected from magical weapons as living wall blocking the entrance (after leaving and re-entering the monsters are positioned in their initial spawning point, but seek the party right away). Also beforehand went to deal with the Shadow Jailor in the Temple ruins, because of a certain useless Ioun Stone. Riskbreaker cannot be allowed to take criticals from golems or skeletons.

 

In this connection, the new clerical Animal Summoning spell IV (level 7) calls an anaconda, a tough-looking snake with good combat abilities. Still, Elite Trolls (monster summoning VI) + a little salamanders (MS V) did a lot of job, including killing the Skeleton Grandlord. The power of the riskbreaker truly shines. Still, even with 65% physical resistance, regeneration 12 per round, excellent AC (potion of Defense), he dies very quickly if battling more than one golem/skeleton. And even 1 on 1 is uneven match.

[lroumen]

I had a bit of a problem with keeping the riskbreaker alive in v5, but in the end if I buffed him well, it would be okay. Did you also have spells like improved invisibility and defensive harmony on your riskbreaker? It helps a bit.

[geh4th]

Riskbreaker tactics in v6 require paying close attention to what he's doing and who's attacking him. If he gets targeted by a big bad guy (read: skeleton grandlord), IMMEDIATELY resort to maneuvering to get the grandlord to change targets. It's not that hard to do. Never stand and fight in a battle you can't win. I don't give a crap what the (fanfare!) Lord of the Cheese says - you'd be a fool to play according to his stupid ideas of battlefield chivalry. The enemies aren't chivalrous. (See the note below about who SHOULD be occupying the grandlord's attention.)

 

My riskbreaker ALWAYS started battles in my 2nd rank, with more traditional melee fighters in front of him. Enemies - even the polygomous Improved Anvil enemies - typically target the first character they see, so the front rank normally grabs their attention.

 

As for the riskbreaker's armor class, it should go without saying to prioritize protection items for the riskbreaker that he CAN wear: rings, cloak, necklace. At 18th level - early in chapter 6 in a "normal" game - a riskbreaker with an 18 dexterity should have an armor class of at worst -4; this assumes only +1 rings, cloak, and necklace. I gave mine two +2 rings, a +2 cloak and the "Talisman of Greater Protection" when I got it forged (it is a necklace that gives +2 AC among other things). This gave him a -8, not too bad for a guy not wearing armor. Toss in whichever girdle helps the most and the AC isn't too far behind the average plate-wearing berserker (and may even exceed that of the chain-wearing barbarian).

 

Riskbreaker abilities: I considered the "blur" spell that riskbreakers get to be a mostly useless waste of time. Most enemies have or cast true sight so it's only useful for a few seconds anyway. I typically pre-buffed with it and forgot about it during battle.

 

Improved Haste is of course not only useful, but required in order to win many Improved Anvil battles. Having a fighter able to cast it himself - and very fast, too - is immensely powerful.

 

The 15th level ability giving a 15% to generate a random effect on hit is very powerful, since the typical riskbreaker will be attacking anywhere from 5-8 times per round. It adds up quickly and these effects happen quite often. You'll be amazed at how often a riskbreaker heals himself of 20 hp (not huge but it helps) along with Hard Hits (extra 10d6+5 damage) or Risk Decrement (-4 AC penalty. Not as useful but every little bit helps.)

 

Chain Breaker Stance gives the riskbreaker a 25 strength (more offense), +25% resistance to all types of physical damage, and regeneration at 12hp per round. Very nice, but beware: this is dispellable. (That happens a lot.)

 

Risk Decrement: to me, this has only one truly significant function: a super-fast HEAL spell for the riskbreaker. The throw-back and damage to enemies is incidental; most high level enemies will have huge resistances to this anyhow, but the breather from the throwback effect is nice for re-targeting your characters on specific enemies. It can be a tactical benefit (and occasionally a problem depending on the situation.)

 

One other note: if your riskbreaker dies in combat, he has one nice little advantage: you don't have to worry about him being unarmored when you raise him during the battle. I had a battle where my riskbreaker died (mobbed by Kryptonite Golems), and another PC (paladin) used a raise dead scroll on him. He appeared with 1 HP, of course...but I then instantly cast "Risk Decrement" to regain full HP (cleric was busy), moved over to get his weapons and rings 'n' things, cast Improved Haste, and was back into battle fully healed and fully effective in less than 2 rounds. Not too shabby.

 

====================

 

Regarding powerful skeletons: A Skeleton Grandlord is going to hit ANYONE regardless of AC. Period. These things have a THACO of something like -22 (I haven't looked it up recently but it is completely obscene). It's almost impossible to have an AC good enough to NOT get hit - the max AC is something like -26, so if I was right and their THACO is -22, that means a roll of 5+ hits. Fighters: good luck with that.

 

The secret to beating grandlords is the almighty Stoneskin & Ironskin. They can't chop up what they can't hit. This is where my ranger/cleric dual-class excelled: as a meat-shield. He had a ridiculous number of divine spells (being a dual) and I typically took nearly all Ironskins at 5th level (and Wondrous Recalls at 6th). I'd use him on the front line as a target - even if he couldn't hit anyone, he was doing his job by GETTING hit. Ironskins is a super-fast spell to cast and can easily be refreshed. He was the reason I was able to handle encounters with these Skeleton Lords (and worse) and the various Kryptonite Golems so effectively. It surely doesn't hurt to have a warrior-mage ("arcane tank") that can do the same thing.

[geh4th]

Expanding on my previous post, I can't overstate the effectiveness of my Ranger/Cleric dual. He was probably my most important party member for many reasons.

 

I dualed him immediately on game start, so he was a 7th level ranger. He'd regained his ranger abilities at about the same time as I got out of Irenicus' dungeon. At this point (R-7/C-8) he was a pretty good warrior with free dual-wielding skills and 10 other proficiencies. In fact, this class combo gets SO MANY proficiencies that he literally runs out of things to learn how to use (given vanilla clerics' weaponry restrictions.)

 

I'm sure some don't like the R/C dual because of lower THACO and combat abilities as you get your PC's to higher levels. True, but he's better than any type of single-class cleric, which are jokes. The auramaster has more magical power, or at least a different kind... but he's pretty useless in combat. And then there's the multi-class R/C. I considered the two (dual vs. multi) long and hard before ultimately deciding that THACO was NOT a factor - the multi levels so slowly that the dual actually stays very close in THACO throughout their careers. It came down to two factors: HLA's and Divine Spells. If you want combat HLA's, the multi is better. If you want TONS of divine spells (not to mention actually getting a useful number of high-level spells), go dual. My strategy called for the latter and that's what I used.

 

My R/C won several battles for me practically all by himself, and made it possible to use strategies to win a bunch of others that nobody else could have pulled off. Some Examples:

 

-Limak (Necromancer extended stronghold): The R/C stayed right up next to Limak, taking his blows (which literally never missed excepting a fumble) and multiple breach spells. Each time he was breached, he re-cast ironskins. I didn't even try to attack; we just waited out his Spell Immunity until we could dispel his improved Invisibility. Before then he was always under PfMW, so nobody could hit him anyway. The RC was also equipped with various items that gave him 100% fire resistance (to avoid those pesky Dragon's Breaths.) My other warriors just stood back (out of visual range) and had a beer, waiting for the protections to run out, while my mages alternately presented themselves as "ruby-ray targets", getting Limak to fire off Ray after Ray in a useless effort to strip off their continually-recast buffs. There's other ways to do the battle, but if something works, why worry about alternatives?

 

-Greater Elemental Golem (he's in the guarded compound, 2nd floor). This guy summons lots of helper golems; you end up facing something like 3 amber, 4 gem, and 4 coin golems along with the primary baddie, who can also cast "purge magic" (auto-dispel everything) every 6 rounds. The R/C started the battle by casting one weak protection (resist heat/cold), opening the door and taking the first purge all by himself. He then "raised shields" (Ironskins), and moved into the main room. Throughout the battle he kept the GEG's attention and moved to various parts of the very large room by himself, taking purge after purge and refreshing ironskins each time. This allowed the rest of the group to whittle down the "lesser" golems by ones and twos. (Note: you might want to remember to disarm or trip all 4 of the stairway traps before fighting this battle.)

 

This is the battle I referred to where the riskbreaker died and returned to combat almost immediately. The RC was (needless to say) quite busy and didn't have time for specific healing; I did cast a couple of Greater Restorations when he got a chance. Due to my maneuver tactics with him, not one other party member had their buffs dispelled by a "purge magic" during the battle. That alone was invaluable. (I was told it was cheesy to not keep the group tightly together, bravely taking the purge on everyone every time. Our truly disturbed developer thinks that it's more "manly" that way. I call it "stupid".)

 

-Ice Golem (Necromancer stronghold, "Why is it so cold down here".) This guy also casts purge magic, and the entire party suffers a bugged "slow" effect that can't be dispelled. Free action works to prevent the actual slow movement, but it doesn't stop an automatic (and wrong) -4 to armor class for everyone. (This might have since been fixed. It wasn't as of the time I'd reported it.) An elemental golem is also present, who summons other "lesser" golems as usual. The battle happens in the room where you kill Tolgerias.

 

The R/C started the battle by moving off to my left and getting the Ice Golem's attention. A purge is cast first, at the R/C (alone). He takes it, and immediately casts ironskins. I timed this so that I'd also have time to get a Free Action cast BEFORE the next "slow" effect (which is every few rounds.) The ice golem closed and attacked while most of my warriors did too. I also sent one person (someone with stoneskins) to get the elemental golem's attention and draw him away into the fire room. The remainder of the group fought and killed the Ice Golem more easily without having to endure another purge. Again, I was told that this sort of "divide and conquer" strategy is cheesy, that I should have intentionally stayed together to be purged and slowed. Only a fool would do such a thing. In Improved Anvil, you're apparently supposed to play in stupid ways to cover up the designer's inability to handle player's innovative tactics.

[lroumen]

The riskbreaker certainly stays in the back, but he is still targeted very often. Blur helps in the prebuff but once he is targeted and I reposition, you might just as well recast it quickly and go back into the fight. I often also drink a potion of invisibility or cast invisibility on him (improved invisibility is best) to get foes who cannot see through invisibility to switch targets or to give him an extra buff. Debuffing keeps foes busy, which is a good bonus.

Similarly, I love to mess up enemy spellcasters when you know that they will target your mage with a breach/ruby ray/etc by casting a quick invisibility spell. Spell-fail!Sadly, Sikret chose necromancers as favoured 'kit'.

 

For the riskbreaker I find the +str on chainbreaker stance unnecessary. It may help, but by the time you get the innat, my gear already gives me 24-25str (girdle of cloud giant strength + treefolk arm or judgment day if warrior protagonist). I have not seen risk decrement in action since it wasn't in v5, it sounds interesting. The heal certainly helps keep him in the frontlines a little bit longer.

 

Best decoy was always a mage. Stoneskins, mirror image, protection from magical weapons...

 

Btw. I still don't know what Mantle (lvl7), Improved Mantle (lvl8) and Absolute Immunity (lvl9) do better compared to Protection from Magical Weapons (lvl 6, protects against everything), since basically all high level foes have magical weapons. The built-in protection from normal weapons is really just useless... or could someone correct me on that?

[Saros]

Thanx for the inputs, particularly to geh4th!

 

I explained my own reasons of picking R/C multi over the dual - better THAC0 and ability to pick from the warrior HLA pool. The drawback of this guy - too few spell slots (compared to a dual) and late HLAs are compensated by the experience exploit I use.

 

I had a bit of a problem with keeping the riskbreaker alive in v5, but in the end if I buffed him well, it would be okay. Did you also have spells like improved invisibility and defensive harmony on your riskbreaker? It helps a bit.

 

When facing golems, illusions are useless. They're dispelled on the first successful golem hit. In addition, there seem to be many hard-batlle built-in cheats, which will dispel party illusions without reasonable explanation (look above for my report when battling Firkraag and geh4th's explanation to that.

 

 

Riskbreaker tactics in v6 require paying close attention to what he's doing and who's attacking him. If he gets targeted by a big bad guy (read: skeleton grandlord), IMMEDIATELY resort to maneuvering to get the grandlord to change targets. It's not that hard to do. Never stand and fight in a battle you can't win. I don't give a crap what the (fanfare!) Lord of the Cheese says - you'd be a fool to play according to his stupid ideas of battlefield chivalry. The enemies aren't chivalrous. (See the note below about who SHOULD be occupying the grandlord's attention.)

 

Yep, the enemies are even less chivalrous when they do double their normal damage on Insane difficulty. What's the point of playing honest duels with enemies when you know you're gonna lose?

 

As for the riskbreaker's armor class, it should go without saying to prioritize protection items for the riskbreaker that he CAN wear: rings, cloak, necklace. At 18th level - early in chapter 6 in a "normal" game - a riskbreaker with an 18 dexterity should have an armor class of at worst -4; this assumes only +1 rings, cloak, and necklace. I gave mine two +2 rings, a +2 cloak and the "Talisman of Greater Protection" when I got it forged (it is a necklace that gives +2 AC among other things). This gave him a -8, not too bad for a guy not wearing armor. Toss in whichever girdle helps the most and the AC isn't too far behind the average plate-wearing berserker (and may even exceed that of the chain-wearing barbarian).

 

Potions of Defense and Invulnerability. Of course, in a battle including Remove or Purge Magic, those are useless. But using them grants the RB an astounding AC (something like -14 at present) together with his built-in bonuses. That is the main reason I picked Alchemy as first sorcerer HLA - to produce unlimited Defense potions, and agility potions for the barbarian (a dwarf).

 

 

Chain Breaker Stance gives the riskbreaker a 25 strength (more offense), +25% resistance to all types of physical damage, and regeneration at 12hp per round. Very nice, but beware: this is dispellable. (That happens a lot.)

 

Risk Decrement: to me, this has only one truly significant function: a super-fast HEAL spell for the riskbreaker. The throw-back and damage to enemies is incidental; most high level enemies will have huge resistances to this anyhow, but the breather from the throwback effect is nice for re-targeting your characters on specific enemies. It can be a tactical benefit (and occasionally a problem depending on the situation.)

 

Didn't know that about CBS. As a side note, I was referring to a Riskbreaker with -14 AC, Hardiness, Chain Breaker Stance and the Girdle of Bluntness facing a Skeleton Warlord and a Gem Golem, blocking the entrance for the other golems and skeletons. The RB, having 12 HP regeneration per round and 65% physical resistance, was chopped in 2 rounds.

 

Similarly, I love to mess up enemy spellcasters when you know that they will target your mage with a breach/ruby ray/etc by casting a quick invisibility spell. Spell-fail!Sadly, Sikret chose necromancers as favoured 'kit'.

 

For the riskbreaker I find the +str on chainbreaker stance unnecessary. It may help, but by the time you get the innat, my gear already gives me 24-25str (girdle of cloud giant strength + treefolk arm or judgment day if warrior protagonist). I have not seen risk decrement in action since it wasn't in v5, it sounds interesting. The heal certainly helps keep him in the frontlines a little bit longer.

 

Best decoy was always a mage. Stoneskins, mirror image, protection from magical weapons...

 

Btw. I still don't know what Mantle (lvl7), Improved Mantle (lvl8) and Absolute Immunity (lvl9) do better compared to Protection from Magical Weapons (lvl 6, protects against everything), since basically all high level foes have magical weapons. The built-in protection from normal weapons is really just useless... or could someone correct me on that?

 

There is solution to the first issue - use the party sorcerer to cast Invisibility or Improved Invisibility, or consume Invisibility potions/ use ring of Invisibility. Works the same way.

 

For MY riskbreaker, who hasn't even completed anything significant in chapter 3, to have an instant buff of strength to 25 would be invaluable. Risk Decrement was in v5.0, I actually have a cheated-in via import-export Riskbreaker->Mage lvls 39->40, who could unleash 3 Risk Decrements in an instant via Improved Alacrity, and this, although doing significant damage, usually didn't kill anyone.

 

Decoy mages don't work as good as you think. Enemies in my case switched targets not only from ProMW targets to unprotected, but also from stone/ironskined to regular fighters.

 

Mantle is one very underrated spell in IA in a team. Even for a solo, I remember using it in one place only - the rune assassins fight. And you had to be lucky to get the scroll as random item drop, which was available in IA 5.0. Not anymore. By the time you get Mantle in the drow city, it's totally useless.

 

Improved Mantle saw quite a lot of play in my solo 5.0 runs. Maybe for a party is useful too, but probably ONLY for the mage. My sorcerer has at least 6 important picks to make from levels 7, 8 and 9 each, and he can't even take all of them (limit 5).

 

The built-in protection from normal weapons is VERY essential. There are dangerous improved enemies which hit with normal weapons, and alongside them are powerful enemies armed with magical weapons. Examples: demon lord in the demon plane (planar sphere) has a normal attack, but his Skeleton Warlords are armed with +4 or +5 two-handed swords. And the demon dispels ALL protections on hit (well, not sure about spell protections). Elite Nishruu (battle with Ancient dragon) has a normal attack, and is bane to mages who protect themselves from magical weapons only. That's why a sorc should have either abundance of Absolute Immunity scrolls, or to pick the spell. Still, maybe the first option is better.

[temujin]

Never stand and fight in a battle you can't win. I don't give a crap what the (fanfare!) Lord of the Cheese says - you'd be a fool to play according to his stupid ideas of battlefield chivalry.

 

The funny thing is, he was accusing some player Ryel ril Ryers (a Hungarian) of running away from battle like a coward. Some time later, that same player carefully analyzed Sikret's ongoing playthrough and noticed Sikky did the exact same thing - he ran away like a whipped dog from the Torgal battle.

 

When Ryel questioned him about it, Sikky insisted he didn't run away. Instead, according to Sikret, all he did was execute a "tactical, step-by-step retreat".

 

 

 

What a brave and noble samurai you are, Sikky! The modern day Sun Tzu!

[Saros]

Other add-ons:

 

Bugging enemies is possible. Usually those from the random monster spawns. In my battle on WK level 1, after killing a couple - leaving - repeat for 2-3 times, I noticed that some enemies don't near the party at all. I checked on them after slaying the rest, and it seemed that 2 golems were 'stuck' upon each other on their spawning point (although on the initial spawn of the group there was no such thing) and were unable to move. They were literally occupying one and the same map coordinates. Same was happening with a Skeleton Lord and a Skeleton Grandlord. Although all of these are powerful, since they were unable to move (but still were able to attack if a party member was within their weapon range), they were chopped to pieces.

 

I intend to test the killing-resurrecting the riskbreaker thingy. If he actually regains all special abilities after being slain and resurrected, this could be an effective cheese tactic in many encounters - him using Risk Decrement(s) - dying-resurrection-and again.

[isleepwithfucking goats]

Other add-ons:

 

Bugging enemies is possible. Usually those from the random monster spawns. In my battle on WK level 1, after killing a couple - leaving - repeat for 2-3 times, I noticed that some enemies don't near the party at all. I checked on them after slaying the rest, and it seemed that 2 golems were 'stuck' upon each other on their spawning point (although on the initial spawn of the group there was no such thing) and were unable to move. They were literally occupying one and the same map coordinates. Same was happening with a Skeleton Lord and a Skeleton Grandlord. Although all of these are powerful, since they were unable to move (but still were able to attack if a party member was within their weapon range), they were chopped to pieces.

 

I intend to test the killing-resurrecting the riskbreaker thingy. If he actually regains all special abilities after being slain and resurrected, this could be an effective cheese tactic in many encounters - him using Risk Decrement(s) - dying-resurrection-and again.

 

Stop sending them so many bug reports

 

30% of the donations should have went to Saros seriously, n1 tester

[Saros]

Stop sending them so many bug reports

 

I actually am sending as many bug reports as I want - in order to emphasize that the 'bug free IA mod' as Sikret states is FULL of bugs, which can be used to a player's advantage Those which I like and tend to exploit are never proclaimed in public and I very carefully chose whom to share them with so v 7.0 most probably is gonna be quite buggy too.

[coaster]

One thing I thought about trying in IA (never got round to it) was a party of 6 M/C fighter/mages. This was before multiclasses were nerfed by XP penalties etc. At one point (IA 4.2 I think) F/Ms really shone with their protections & melee capabilities, they could still attack in timestops etc.

 

This probably doesn't apply now...but I was wondering what would be the optimal class if you had to pick 6 of the same in IA6? Dual R>C, or B>M or something?

 

Would this type of party be inferior to a mixture of classes - does IA need a variety of classes? Or is it still the case that IA's focus on protections+melee mean these would still be very powerful parties?

[Saros]

One thing I thought about trying in IA (never got round to it) was a party of 6 M/C fighter/mages. This was before multiclasses were nerfed by XP penalties etc. At one point (IA 4.2 I think) F/Ms really shone with their protections & melee capabilities, they could still attack in timestops etc.

 

This probably doesn't apply now...but I was wondering what would be the optimal class if you had to pick 6 of the same in IA6? Dual R>C, or B>M or something?

 

Would this type of party be inferior to a mixture of classes - does IA need a variety of classes? Or is it still the case that IA's focus on protections+melee mean these would still be very powerful parties?

 

Any type of Fighter/Mages (being multi or dualclassed) will be severely hindered because of built-in game cheats which deprive a party with F/M protagonist from gaining many specific items (like Spell Immunity scrolls) or other cheats which will dispel cruical buffs in the midst of battle. Read this topic, find posts of the bigg, and you'll see what I mean. I think that cleric-mages are ok, but they surely lack offensive power compared to F/M. A team of Ranger/Clerics isn't gonna make great progression either - they lack Improved Haste to begin with, but not only that. IMO it may be possible for a team of six sorcerers to beat IA 6.0, but for that an extreme knowledge of the improvements and ingame implemented cheats (I mean cheats installed by Sikret) is required.