IA v6 Final

[DavidW]

So you're still surprised that IA enemies unerringly break the rules you have to abide?

Besides, this is one area where even SCII cheats (by casting Contingency when Stoneskin is dispelled).

 

Guilty as charged! - but in my defence, all I do is allow more flexible trigger conditions. I don't break the targetting rules. (In my view this is a rare case where the player gets penalised for the restrictions of AI - they have to choose from a fixed list of trigger conditions, whereas NPC mages can be more "intelligent" in their specification

 

I do think it would be going too far to let the AI (e.g.) target its favourite enemy with a CC, or target multiple enemies. (But ultimately there's no bright line here, I admit.)

[Ardanis]

As long as you admit it openly in readme (and even offer a passable justification), I think there's no problem about it.

SCS II tries extremely hard not to cheat. It's impossible within the engine to be completely certain of this, but as far as I can manage, no SCS II mage does anything that the party can't (assuming that you have installed the Spell Tweaks components of SCS II). There are two exceptions:

 

As noted in the "Improved Fiends" component, if you install that component then NPC-summoned fiends behave a little differently from PC-summoned ones.

I assume that NPC wizards (who have years and decades more practice than the PC) can specify the conditions on which their contingencies go off with more discernment than the PC, so I haven't restricted myself to the conditions that the game allows for PC spellcasters. Otherwise, I have kept to the standard Contingency rules even when the unmodded game breaks them (no choosing different targets in the same sequencer; no 9th level spells in Chain Contingency, etc.)

[Saros]

I stand corrected on the Improved Asylum. There were four things that surprised me while testing.

 

First, resting on the Riddle Statue level causes 3 Whisper Spiders to appear after rest.

 

Second, the portal on that same level was guarded by: an Ice golem, an Elemental golem, 2 Gem and 2 Coin golems, in addition to Ruhk and his mephits.

 

Third, on the Minotaur level there were 24 (yep, twenty-four) Skeleton Warlords in one group, replacing the vanilla werewolves. If I hadn't used a mage to partially block the corridor, I could've never defeated them. Strength in numbers...

 

And fourth, brother Jon gates in 6 Asylum scouts each round he's alive after creating clones first, of course.

 

Still doable though, even in a no-reload.

[Saros]

Found yet another unclosed exploit, granting unlimited xp and gold. And some useful items, too.

[isleepwithfucking goats]

It's been now a few months since my last run. Thinking about giving it another go. Christmas always puts me in the BG2 mood

[isleepwithfucking goats]

What do you guys think of using a Vagrant as non-protagonist? I'll be using a Necro prot again.

I really dig Vagrants, he is practically a fighter with Grand Mastery in Axes. A fighter with Hardiness, Critical, GWW, Contact with Nature, Elemental Damage Resistance and Swanmays, also Poison immunity vs Assassins is pretty neat too. Swanmays are very useful, a bit less in v6 vs. Liches but still very useful.

I don't think a Undead Hunter can substitute a non protagonist Vagrant. Undead Hunters only get to place 2 stars in weapons, have a better AC, immunity to level drain, and some bonuses vs. Undead. I think the Vagrant much more superior in this case.

 

 

No Red Coral Armor +6, so no 10% physical resistance from armor. You still get 50% reduced magic damage from the cloak that you would normally use in making Red Coral Armor +6. So basically you get 5% more physical resistance, +3 base armor class, and a free cloak slot when you upgrade Green Leaves Armor +3 to Red Coral.

 

No Lakesider Axe +5 (+25 HP and 5% chance for extra damage)

 

And no Flail of Defending and Wonding +5. Which sort of sucks in v6 since cumulative damage has a save vs wands. Not to mention piercing damage is pretty bad to begin with.

 

 

 

 

My party will be: Necro, B/C or R/C, Riskbreaker, Kensai, Berserker, Vagrant

I will have 5 strong fighters if I go with B/C, or 4 1/2 if I go with R/C.

 

R/C : I can cast Greater Restoration much easier and faster under Ironskins, I have Ironskins to absorb damage during fights, less APR but in ToB I could get the glove that gives 1/2 attack per round, no Enrage (but could still get immunity to level drain via 7th level spell )

 

B/C: Enrage, a fighter practically with thac0 buffs and his APR. To cast Greater Restoration, you have to run from enemy so he doesn't get hit, which means you're not doing damage during that time.

 

Thoughts?

[Saros]

What do you guys think of using a Vagrant as non-protagonist? I'll be using a Necro prot again.

I really dig Vagrants, he is practically a fighter with Grand Mastery in Axes. A fighter with Hardiness, Critical, GWW, Contact with Nature, Elemental Damage Resistance and Swanmays, also Poison immunity vs Assassins is pretty neat too. Swanmays are very useful, a bit less in v6 vs. Liches but still very useful.

I don't think a Undead Hunter can substitute a non protagonist Vagrant. Undead Hunters only get to place 2 stars in weapons, have a better AC, immunity to level drain, and some bonuses vs. Undead. I think the Vagrant much more superior in this case.

 

 

No Red Coral Armor +6, so no 10% physical resistance from armor. You still get 50% reduced magic damage from the cloak that you would normally use in making Red Coral Armor +6. So basically you get 5% more physical resistance, +3 base armor class, and a free cloak slot when you upgrade Green Leaves Armor +3 to Red Coral.

 

No Lakesider Axe +5 (+25 HP and 5% chance for extra damage)

 

And no Flail of Defending and Wonding +5. Which sort of sucks in v6 since cumulative damage has a save vs wands. Not to mention piercing damage is pretty bad to begin with.

 

 

 

 

My party will be: Necro, B/C or R/C, Riskbreaker, Kensai, Berserker, Vagrant

I will have 5 strong fighters if I go with B/C, or 4 1/2 if I go with R/C.

 

R/C : I can cast Greater Restoration much easier and faster under Ironskins, I have Ironskins to absorb damage during fights, less APR but in ToB I could get the glove that gives 1/2 attack per round, no Enrage (but could still get immunity to level drain via 7th level spell )

 

B/C: Enrage, a fighter practically with thac0 buffs and his APR. To cast Greater Restoration, you have to run from enemy so he doesn't get hit, which means you're not doing damage during that time.

 

Thoughts?

 

Since I put on hold both my test party and no-reload party in chapters 6-7, I cannot give the best thoughts on the entire mod (includes party suggestions) but still.

 

Your party seems to be low on arcane casters. Just 1 necro IMO is insufficient for buffing/debuffing and summoning. For a healer and a warrior - a R-C dual is all you need, while he's still un-nerfed (who knows, in v7 he might already be nerfed so that he has no access to 4+ priest spells, as normal rangers don't). Of course the saves of that character are somewhat bad, but he'll be just as effective fighter as a B-C, plus Ironskins, which really says it all.

Shield of the Archons is all you need vs lvl drain. And vs other effects there are the clerical buffs, which makes enrage somewhat obsolete. Besides, you already have a berserker.

 

Too many fighters. Too few good equipment for fighters early on. A Vagrant is somewhat obsolete if he isn't your protagonist IMO. Cut him and make a second arcane caster, preferably either one capable of using powerful and hard-accessible spells early on (like a sorcerer) or a damage-absorber (like a Berserker-Mage). Believe me, three fighters with very good damage resistances are all you need, and with a R-C, you basically have four most of the time. A fifth one is unnecessary. Thing with rangers of all kinds (including 'mighty' Valygar) is that they are too fragile in combat, even with Hardiness and Armor of Faith, while a Riskbreaker or a Barbarian can take a lot more hits due to higher physical resistance values. Even a Fighter/Thief seems much more useable, because even he's going to get his HLA very late, he'll be able to have 65% physical damage resistance with Jansen's Adventurewear when your party mages hit lvl 18 due to Wish for Hardiness. Not that I'm promoting a F/T, because without the Improved Haste on the Grandfather of Assassins this class combination is not so powerful anymore.

[isleepwithfucking goats]

What do you guys think of using a Vagrant as non-protagonist? I'll be using a Necro prot again.

I really dig Vagrants, he is practically a fighter with Grand Mastery in Axes. A fighter with Hardiness, Critical, GWW, Contact with Nature, Elemental Damage Resistance and Swanmays, also Poison immunity vs Assassins is pretty neat too. Swanmays are very useful, a bit less in v6 vs. Liches but still very useful.

I don't think a Undead Hunter can substitute a non protagonist Vagrant. Undead Hunters only get to place 2 stars in weapons, have a better AC, immunity to level drain, and some bonuses vs. Undead. I think the Vagrant much more superior in this case.

 

 

No Red Coral Armor +6, so no 10% physical resistance from armor. You still get 50% reduced magic damage from the cloak that you would normally use in making Red Coral Armor +6. So basically you get 5% more physical resistance, +3 base armor class, and a free cloak slot when you upgrade Green Leaves Armor +3 to Red Coral.

 

No Lakesider Axe +5 (+25 HP and 5% chance for extra damage)

 

And no Flail of Defending and Wonding +5. Which sort of sucks in v6 since cumulative damage has a save vs wands. Not to mention piercing damage is pretty bad to begin with.

 

 

 

 

My party will be: Necro, B/C or R/C, Riskbreaker, Kensai, Berserker, Vagrant

I will have 5 strong fighters if I go with B/C, or 4 1/2 if I go with R/C.

 

R/C : I can cast Greater Restoration much easier and faster under Ironskins, I have Ironskins to absorb damage during fights, less APR but in ToB I could get the glove that gives 1/2 attack per round, no Enrage (but could still get immunity to level drain via 7th level spell )

 

B/C: Enrage, a fighter practically with thac0 buffs and his APR. To cast Greater Restoration, you have to run from enemy so he doesn't get hit, which means you're not doing damage during that time.

 

Thoughts?

 

Since I put on hold both my test party and no-reload party in chapters 6-7, I cannot give the best thoughts on the entire mod (includes party suggestions) but still.

 

Your party seems to be low on arcane casters. Just 1 necro IMO is insufficient for buffing/debuffing and summoning. For a healer and a warrior - a R-C dual is all you need, while he's still un-nerfed (who knows, in v7 he might already be nerfed so that he has no access to 4+ priest spells, as normal rangers don't). Of course the saves of that character are somewhat bad, but he'll be just as effective fighter as a B-C, plus Ironskins, which really says it all.

Shield of the Archons is all you need vs lvl drain. And vs other effects there are the clerical buffs, which makes enrage somewhat obsolete. Besides, you already have a berserker.

 

Too many fighters. Too few good equipment for fighters early on. A Vagrant is somewhat obsolete if he isn't your protagonist IMO. Cut him and make a second arcane caster, preferably either one capable of using powerful and hard-accessible spells early on (like a sorcerer) or a damage-absorber (like a Berserker-Mage). Believe me, three fighters with very good damage resistances are all you need, and with a R-C, you basically have four most of the time. A fifth one is unnecessary. Thing with rangers of all kinds (including 'mighty' Valygar) is that they are too fragile in combat, even with Hardiness and Armor of Faith, while a Riskbreaker or a Barbarian can take a lot more hits due to higher physical resistance values. Even a Fighter/Thief seems much more useable, because even he's going to get his HLA very late, he'll be able to have 65% physical damage resistance with Jansen's Adventurewear when your party mages hit lvl 18 due to Wish for Hardiness. Not that I'm promoting a F/T, because without the Improved Haste on the Grandfather of Assassins this class combination is not so powerful anymore.

 

Actually a few players at BWL including Sikret, were saying you only need one arcane caster if you are playing Necro protagonist.

 

About the Vagrant in a party. I think he is more valuable in a v6 party than for example a Kensai or Berserker. First of all, he is a fighter, grandmastery in axes, get's hardiness, criticals, and elemental resistances. Thac0 is ok, especially with the new spell, str items, buffs, he can have good thac0. Then he has contact with nature, very strong ability. Then he has Swanmays, the most powerful summon after Improved Djini.

 

Riskbreakers are very strong, but I already have one. Barbarians are a no-no, anything without grand mastery has no room in my party, I don't really consider them much of a fighter.

[Saros]

Well, it all depends on the difficulty level IMO and the amount of reloads you're willing to take for each battle. As for a Vagrant - yeah it seems stronger than a Berserker or Kensai, and since you don't have another ranger in the party, maybe it's good keeping him and ditching one of the others. On Insane difficulty your multiple fighters will drop like flies most of the time, and you'll really need another damage absorber, being it either a pure sorcerer or a dualclass mage. Two mages can really ease your life in some tough fights. But I guess your party is OK too, it will simply take more reloads to finish the game with it.

[geh4th]

You still get 50% reduced magic damage from the cloak that you would normally use in making Red Coral Armor +6.

 

I'm fairly certain that the cloak that provides the Vagrant with magic damage resistance (the name escapes me) isn't in the game at all if your protagonist isn't a Vagrant.

 

The non-protagonist vagrant will be extremely fragile later in the game since there are few examples of worthwhile armor he'd be able to wear. You already know how hard it is to keep Valygar alive, and he has munchkin armor thanks to his special status being the "most favored" of the Lord of the Cheese. A vagrant without the Red Coral armor will be even worse off.

 

While I too think that your party is realistically a little light on arcane spellcasting (having only the Necromancer), I'd like to see you play with this sort of group for no other reason than to prove that IA is really just a hack-and-slash mod when it's all said and done. Thieves, bards, single class clerics, non-auramaster druids, archers, paladins, non-humans (except half-orcs), and all multiclass characters are all already obsolete in IA v6; why not prove that mages are obsolete too?

[InKal]

Thieves, bards, single class clerics, non-auramaster druids, archers, paladins, non-humans (except half-orcs), and all multiclass characters are all already obsolete in IA v6; why not prove that mages are obsolete too?

 

Exactly. v6 is painfully one-dimensional. In some twisted way I understand why they are charging cash for this.

[isleepwithfucking goats]

You still get 50% reduced magic damage from the cloak that you would normally use in making Red Coral Armor +6.

 

I'm fairly certain that the cloak that provides the Vagrant with magic damage resistance (the name escapes me) isn't in the game at all if your protagonist isn't a Vagrant.

 

The non-protagonist vagrant will be extremely fragile later in the game since there are few examples of worthwhile armor he'd be able to wear. You already know how hard it is to keep Valygar alive, and he has munchkin armor thanks to his special status being the "most favored" of the Lord of the Cheese. A vagrant without the Red Coral armor will be even worse off.

 

While I too think that your party is realistically a little light on arcane spellcasting (having only the Necromancer), I'd like to see you play with this sort of group for no other reason than to prove that IA is really just a hack-and-slash mod when it's all said and done. Thieves, bards, single class clerics, non-auramaster druids, archers, paladins, non-humans (except half-orcs), and all multiclass characters are all already obsolete in IA v6; why not prove that mages are obsolete too?

 

 

I'm very confident in a Vagrant non-protagonist

 

As for the one mage only, we shall see how things develop.

[isleepwithfucking goats]

Which Merchant offers the best prices for items I want to sell? I usually dump my stuff to Bernard at the Copper Coronet.

[Saros]

Errm after completing the CC quest of freeing Hendak Bernard turns out to be the worst choice to sell, since his buying prices decrease alongside with his selling prices. Apparently an IA 6.0 feature. Any other place is best suitable. Of course, avoid places which have the same items which you wanna sell them. Selling plate mails to a shop which already has 2 means that you'll get 120 gp for each subsequent plate instead of 180.

 

The two 'leftover' places with higher purchase prices in 5.0 were the Swirfneblin merchant in Underdark (buying at 7/6 price in comparison to what other shops would offer), and Reirra in Suldanesselar (buying at 5/3 compared to other shops). The Swirfneblin merchant has his buying prices fixed already to match the other merchants in the game, and since I haven't reached Reirra yet, I cannot be positive, but I think she's been fixed as well.

 

If you lack only a bit of gold in order to create a certain item, use the Wish for Potions exploit - those can still be sold. There are several other unlimited gold exploits, but some can be eliminated if you don't know what you're looking for.

[isleepwithfucking goats]

Errm after completing the CC quest of freeing Hendak Bernard turns out to be the worst choice to sell, since his buying prices decrease alongside with his selling prices. Apparently an IA 6.0 feature. Any other place is best suitable. Of course, avoid places which have the same items which you wanna sell them. Selling plate mails to a shop which already has 2 means that you'll get 120 gp for each subsequent plate instead of 180.

 

The two 'leftover' places with higher purchase prices in 5.0 were the Swirfneblin merchant in Underdark (buying at 7/6 price in comparison to what other shops would offer), and Reirra in Suldanesselar (buying at 5/3 compared to other shops). The Swirfneblin merchant has his buying prices fixed already to match the other merchants in the game, and since I haven't reached Reirra yet, I cannot be positive, but I think she's been fixed as well.

 

If you lack only a bit of gold in order to create a certain item, use the Wish for Potions exploit - those can still be sold. There are several other unlimited gold exploits, but some can be eliminated if you don't know what you're looking for.

 

 

So pre-spellhold, just sell to any merchant which has few items in stock?