Kit Revisions Beta 20

[Lawlight]

No you can't use them. You'd have to rest to use them anyway...

 

Just to let you know. I edited my previous post.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Lawlight

[Demivrgvs]

True Paladin

No you can't use them. You'd have to rest to use them anyway...

Good!

 

Just to let you know. I edited my previous post.

Ops, I read it only before the edit.

 

Regarding the caster level, I asked to watch out for it because I knew it probably wasn't fine but I had no idea how exactly. I do want to try fixing it if possible (I'm not sure we can, even with ToBEx), but for that I'd need to know first the current caster level progression. Is it as the manual says? Does it have an early cap?

 

I'm glad auras now work, but when it comes to add a portrait icon I have my hands tied unless we are fine for it sharing the icon with something else (e.g. Protection from Evil icon?).

 

 

Monk

@kreso (or anyone else who tried it), I never had any feedback on his late game performance, and in particular of his Slow Time ability. Did you ever tried it out?

Edited June 23, 2013 by Demivrgvs

[Lawlight]

Regarding the caster level, I asked to watch out for it because I knew it probably wasn't fine but I had no idea how exactly. I do want to try fixing it if possible (I'm not sure we can, even with ToBEx), but for that I'd need to know first the current caster level progression. Is it as the manual says? Does it have an early cap?

 

Manual

Paladin Level / Caster Level

9/1

10/2

11/3

12/4

13/5

14/6

15/7

16/8

17/9 cap

 

Draw upon Divine Might

[...]his strength, dexterity, and constitution scores are raised by 1 point for every 3 levels of the caster, to a maximum of 6 points at level 18. A third level caster would have his abilities raised by 1, while a 12th level caster would have all his abilities raised by 4.[...]

 

KR (tested with DuDM at each and single lvl)

Paladin Level / Caster Level

4/1

5/1

6/1

7/1

8/1

9/1

10/2

11/3

12/4

13/5

14/6 (DuDM +2)

15/7

16/8

17/9 (DuDM +3)

18/10

19/11

20/12 (DuDM +4) (no cap?)

21/13

22/14

23/15 (DuDM +5)

24/16

25/17

26/18 (DuDM +6)

27/?

 

Conclusion

It works exactly as mentioned in the manual except for the cap. Imo this progression rate is very misleading. The progression should start at level 4(5) and not at 9(10) within Kr.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Lawlight

[kreso]

I tested this as well, created custom cleric and paladin - Paladin seems to be 8 levels behind the priest for spellcasting level. Cleric gains +2 from DUHM at level 6, Paladin at 8+6=14. It has no "early cap", even in vanilla Paladins could eventually summon Skeleton Warriors.

It is capped, at +6 bonus, as the spell says. You can't get higher scores (+7). It works as it should, I don't see any errors...was it intended to work differently?

As for monks, yeah, I played them in BG2. Gonna post in Monk topic for that.

[Lawlight]

Divine Power grants +18 hit points at level 26 so the progression rate I figured out, seems to be valid.

 

Btw. Is it intended that Divine Power has a negative impact on THACO for a Paladin?

Edited June 23, 2013 by Lawlight

[Lawlight]

I tested this as well, created custom cleric and paladin - Paladin seems to be 8 levels behind the priest for spellcasting level. Cleric gains +2 from DUHM at level 6, Paladin at 8+6=14. It has no "early cap", even in vanilla Paladins could eventually summon Skeleton Warriors.

It is capped, at +6 bonus, as the spell says. You can't get higher scores (+7). It works as it should, I don't see any errors...was it intended to work differently?

 

Yes. But isn't it misleading for the mortal gamer that the caster level starts to increase at level 10, when at the same time the paladin obtains Divine Spellcasting at level 4?

Edited June 23, 2013 by Lawlight

[kreso]

Divine Power grants +18 hit points at level 26 so the progression rate I figured out, seems to be valid.

 

Btw. Is it intended that Divine Power has a negative impact on THACO for a Paladin?

 

Progression rate you wrote down is perfectly valid. +18 a priest gets at level 18, and a paladin 8 levels later, at 26th.

I don't think Divine Power should have neg.impact but this spell is basically a single-class cleric only....it works as intended for clerics.

Actually. yes, it works exactly as it should! Note the 8 levels spellcasting difference behind a pure class cleric. The spell description (SR, yes?) states - "it gives you a THAC0 of the fighter of the same level". Since your casting level is that low, it gives you a THAC0 lower than you normally have. :D

[Demivrgvs]

True Paladin

As I expected something has to be done in terms of caster level as I agree with Lawlight, it should be obvious for any player. For that very reason though, I actually think it would be best to avoid things like "paladin can cast spells with a caster level of x levels lower than his level" which is only a mess imo (not to mention it makes spells descriptions misleading). Don't you agree?

 

If we agree I'd simply grant paladins a +8 caster level (need ToBEx to work though) and I'll upload a new beta asap.

 

Btw. Is it intended that Divine Power has a negative impact on THACO for a Paladin?

It happens because of the reduced caster level, if caster level = character level than it works fine (no thac0 change for a paladin because he already has fighter progression).

 

Monk

As for monks, yeah, I played them in BG2. Gonna post in Monk topic for that.

Thanks. And thanks again for keeping this topic focused only on beta issues/bugs. Edited June 23, 2013 by Demivrgvs

[Lawlight]

True Paladin

As I expected something has to be done in terms of caster level as I agree with Lawlight, it should be obvious for any player. For that very reason though, I actually think it would be best to avoid things like "paladin can cast spells with a caster level of x levels lower than his level" which is only a mess imo (not to mention it makes spells descriptions misleading). Don't you agree?

 

If we agree I'd simply grant paladins a +8 caster level (need ToBEx to work though) and I'll upload a new beta asap.

 

I couldn't agree more.

[kreso]

True Paladin

If we agree I'd simply grant paladins a +8 caster level (need ToBEx to work though) and I'll upload a new beta asap.

All you need is ToBEx? Cool.

 

Monk

As for monks, yeah, I played them in BG2. Gonna post in Monk topic for that.

Thanks. And thanks again for keeping this topic focused only on beta issues/bugs.

Np, will post feedback in an hour.

Edited June 23, 2013 by kreso

[Demivrgvs]

True Paladin

If we agree I'd simply grant paladins a +8 caster level (need ToBEx to work though) and I'll upload a new beta asap.

All you need is ToBEx? Cool.

If you have IR installed than you don't need a separate ToBEx installed for it to work, as I already used this fixed opcode there for a couple of items (e.g. Amulet of Power).

 

Re-uploaded with hopefully fixed caster level.

 

Btw, I need to update the description but I've purposely used a spell slot progression as easier to remember and describe as I could: "At level 6 and every other 4 levels the paladin can memorize one more spell per day for each spell level he currently knows."

Thus at level 6 you simply gain a second slot for L1 spells, then at level 10 you gains a third slot for L1 spells and a second one for L2 spells. It all caps at level 18 with 5, 4, 3, 2 spell slots for L1, L2, L3 and L4 spells respectively. Was it clear enough?

[Grammarsalad]

In light of this:

 

...Thanks. And thanks again for keeping this topic focused only on beta issues/bugs.

 

Re-posted here:

 

Quick report:

 

I started a single player in BGT (only g3 fix, ascension and KR v 13) with a paladin protagonist. I haven't noticed any oddities with him but I have noticed some oddities with offensive and defensive stance (at least for Khalid and Jaheria)

 

If you go into defensive stance first, you still have your offensive stance in your special ability. If you select it, nothing seems to happen but it appears that you lose your offensive stance permanently (rested and it hasn't reappeared).

 

If you go into offensive stance first, you can select and go into defensive stance as well. Both abilities reappear, however.

 

(side note: I really regret not installing SR and IR, Going to do that for my next run. .)

[Demivrgvs]

Re-uploaded the beta.

 

- hopefully fixed Offensive Stance & Defensive Stance overlapping issues

- Monk's Empty Body fixed to require no casting time, added a portrait icon

- minor description changes

[kreso]

True Paladin

Btw, I need to update the description but I've purposely used a spell slot progression as easier to remember and describe as I could: "At level 6 and every other 4 levels the paladin can memorize one more spell per day for each spell level he currently knows."

Thus at level 6 you simply gain a second slot for L1 spells, then at level 10 you gains a third slot for L1 spells and a second one for L2 spells. It all caps at level 18 with 5, 4, 3, 2 spell slots for L1, L2, L3 and L4 spells respectively. Was it clear enough?

It is fine. Other Pallys coming out tonight? Np if not. Always wanted to try out a 4 member Paladin group.....

[Demivrgvs]

Other Pallys coming out tonight? Np if not. Always wanted to try out a 4 member Paladin group.....

Between forums and fixes I ended up not having enough time sorry. I'll try to finish them tomorrow, maybe with a bunch of surprises.

 

Edit: will reply to Monk's feedback tomorrow morning. Thanks for it.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Demivrgvs