Kit Revisions Beta 20

[Lawlight]

As I guessed it's a damn "load saved game" bug. I guess the lesser evil is to grant the +1 apr as an external bonus applied to weapons too. My only concern is that at level 1 a monk wielding a katana with 2 apr is kinda unfair...but other than that it's should not be a balance problem (warriors still have better STR and weapon proficiencies - starting with at least +1 to hit and +2 damage at level 1).

Well, he will do 3-12 damage with 18 Strenght....it's ok i guess, I like monks with weapons anyway.

 

But then...

...what's the reason to use fists early on. Dunno if I like that.

 

Speaking of which, an alternative solution is to revert it back to how it was in my first version, with the +1 apr applied only to unarmed strikes and triggering only when attacking. I'm not sure though because it might be misleading, in fact kreso thought the +1 apr was not there at all at first sight.

 

Anyway. I like the alternative solution much better. I think it shouldn't be much of a problem, when it's properly reflected in the class description (Flurry of Blows).

 

The haste immunity was granted by spcl814, and now it contain only disease immunity...was there an hardcoded immunity too?

 

I cannot answer this. I tested it again. Casting Haste doesn't effect my monk at all (no "hasted animation"). Casting Improved Haste on him works, but has not the effect it should have.

Edited June 15, 2013 by Lawlight

[kreso]

Speaking of which, an alternative solution is to revert it back to how it was in my first version, with the +1 apr applied only to unarmed strikes and triggering only when attacking. I'm not sure though because it might be misleading, in fact kreso thought the +1 apr was not there at all at first sight.

I'd vote for this. Simply change the description to something like: "When unarmed, monk attacks with Flurry of Blows. Each round in melee combat he gets one extra attack if both of his hands are free."

Edited June 15, 2013 by kreso

[Demivrgvs]

As I guessed it's a damn "load saved game" bug. I guess the lesser evil is to grant the +1 apr as an external bonus applied to weapons too. My only concern is that at level 1 a monk wielding a katana with 2 apr is kinda unfair...but other than that it's should not be a balance problem (warriors still have better STR and weapon proficiencies - starting with at least +1 to hit and +2 damage at level 1).

Well, he will do 3-12 damage with 18 Strenght....it's ok i guess, I like monks with weapons anyway.

But then...

...what's the reason to use fists early on. Dunno if I like that.

Good point. Can you guys confirm the hardcoded apr bonuses starting at level 3 are only applied to unarmed strikes?

 

Still, weapons been the clearly better choice at levels 1 and 2 is not a good thing imo.

 

Speaking of which, an alternative solution is to revert it back to how it was in my first version, with the +1 apr applied only to unarmed strikes and triggering only when attacking. I'm not sure though because it might be misleading, in fact kreso thought the +1 apr was not there at all at first sight.

I'd vote for this. Simply change the description to something like: "When unarmed, monk attacks with Flurry of Blows. Each round in melee combat he gets one extra attack if both of his hands are free."

I fear it would still be confusing for some players, else it would be fine with me.

 

Another alternative, slightly more "complicated", is to turn Flurry of Blows into a "fighting style/stance". Implementing it is a little bit time consuming (I need to create a couple of new spls and new 8 custom mfist itm files). Then we'd need to check of that work with permanent timing mode and level up. If there's a consensus on trying this solution out I'll start working on it asap.

 

In the meanwhile, skip weapons and try the unarmed monk to give me some feedback on the class balance and his various abilities.

[kreso]

I cannot answer this. I tested it again. Casting Haste doesn't effect my monk at all (no "hasted animation"). Casting Improved Haste on him works, but has not the effect it should have.

Monk indeed seems to be immune to Haste...I'm quite sure this isn't hardcoded, I removed it once and he could be correctly Hasted.

[Demivrgvs]

I cannot answer this. I tested it again. Casting Haste doesn't effect my monk at all (no "hasted animation"). Casting Improved Haste on him works, but has not the effect it should have.

Monk indeed seems to be immune to Haste...I'm quite sure this isn't hardcoded, I removed it once and he could be correctly Hasted.

Found it, the usual tp2 typo. It was copying spcl815 twice in a row instead of spcl814 and spcl815. I told you I would have messed up something in that massive tp2.

 

Fixed and re-uploaded.

[Lawlight]

Good point. Can you guys confirm the hardcoded apr bonuses starting at level 3 are only applied to unarmed strikes?

 

Yes I can confirm this.

[Lawlight]

Another alternative, slightly more "complicated", is to turn Flurry of Blows into a "fighting style/stance". Implementing it is a little bit time consuming (I need to create a couple of new spls and new 8 custom mfist itm files). Then we'd need to check of that work with permanent timing mode and level up. If there's a consensus on trying this solution out I'll start working on it asap.

 

You know that I'm all for fighting styles.

 

Edit: Sorry for double post.

Edited June 15, 2013 by Lawlight

[kreso]

Good point. Can you guys confirm the hardcoded apr bonuses starting at level 3 are only applied to unarmed strikes?

 

Yes I can confirm this.

 

Confirmed here as well. Btw, he cannot drink IR Oil of Speed, don't know how vanilla handles them. I use potion swap to use it.

Btw, he still doesn't get Slow Time for some reason.

Anyhow, gonna post feedback on BG1 later, enough bugs, let's play.

Edited June 15, 2013 by kreso

[Demivrgvs]

Good point. Can you guys confirm the hardcoded apr bonuses starting at level 3 are only applied to unarmed strikes?

Yes I can confirm this.

Confirmed here as well.

Good!

 

Btw, he cannot drink IR Oil of Speed, don't know how vanilla handles them. I use potion swap to use it.

Btw, he still doesn't get Slow Time for some reason.

I'll tweak IR's potion.

Found the issue with Slow Time, fixed. I've re-uploaded the beta but just put the new dvcl822 into the override, no need to re-install everything.

 

Anyhow, gonna post feedback on BG1 later, enough bugs, let's play.

About time.

[kreso]

Feedback on Monk, BG1

Same starting issues as Kensai, multiplied by 1d10 HP dice. Lots of reloading, and low THAC0/damage ensure plenty of misses and longer fights, equaling even more danger that playing with kensai. Things improve by a large margin at levels 3, but getting there (I played with only Imoen in party till now) is indeed a pain. Bigest numbers of reloads was forced in a battle vs 6 Hobgoblins. Even my kensai had very little trouble dipatching them, yet monk seemed so fragile here. Now with 5/2 APR, 35 HP, things seem much brighter.

Ki abilities - I ended up using Stunning Fist the most. Being able to set up auto-hits is beyond useful. Teleportation is nice for archer killing, but it's exactly because of this ability I find Ki step useless. Why run, when you can fly?

Stealth is the key to dispatching SCS mages with a monk. Low HP pool means that mages are very devastating to monks. Same goes for Clerics, which a monk has trouble hitting as well (armor + shield usually). Takes some attempts to finally hide (Boots of Stealth help alot), afterwards is Stunning Fist and pray that it stuns on the first hit. (Things will change now after picking up Viconia and Jaheira).

APR 5/2 seems high indeed, after gaining some levels Hobgoblins no longer present any challenge and usually die at a 2 per round rate.

Overall, he seems quite playable (I did resort to darts for first 2 levels however, as well as metagame knowledge. In SCS options for gaining levels are very few, and sometiomes it seems like you're stuck, especially when you don't have a Cleric with Hold Person/Silence) and fun.

P.S.

I have some weirdness in my game now - as I said, I bought an Ioun Stone for my Kensai when testing him. Now, I bought the very same item for my monk. Incredible, but true - it doesn't protect from critical hits. Stays on the head slot so it should always protect from criticals, right? Well, not this one.

 

Edited:

Why does Stunning Fist force a save vs spell? I think a Death (or Breath) save would be more appropriate for and ability which has very little connection with spells in general. It would also be much more useful vs mages. Also, it seems to last a bit longer than one round.

 

P.P.S.

I edited Oil of Speed for my monk to use, np now.

Edited June 15, 2013 by kreso

[kreso]

Ummmm.....I think I can tweak all Ioun Stones not to protect from critical hits anymore.

ToBEx magic I guess.

Edited June 15, 2013 by kreso

[Lawlight]

I have some weirdness in my game now - as I said, I bought an Ioun Stone for my Kensai when testing him. Now, I bought the very same item for my monk. Incredible, but true - it doesn't protect from critical hits. Stays on the head slot so it should always protect from criticals, right? Well, not this one.

Do you play with IR 3.1? Then it is working as intended.

[kreso]

I have some weirdness in my game now - as I said, I bought an Ioun Stone for my Kensai when testing him. Now, I bought the very same item for my monk. Incredible, but true - it doesn't protect from critical hits. Stays on the head slot so it should always protect from criticals, right? Well, not this one.

Do you play with IR 3.1? Then it is working as intended.

Yes, I am. Never noticed this however.....Other Ioun Stones don't seem to have this flag set. This is the only such item in the game I believe.

[Grammarsalad]

I was going to mention the stunning fist save. I was thinking it should be death (ie, better vs. mages)

[Kalindor]

Monk cannot use Oil of Speed without IR either.

 

I seem to be able to use Stunning Fist to stun enemies with a Longsword. Ha ha.

 

Very minor: monk description is missing the "MONK:" at the beginning. I am going to give the monk a whirl now.

 

Also, there is an empty space between Ki Arrow and Wholeness of Body in the Ki Pool menu.

 

Ki Arrow's animation is not very convincing, heh heh.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Kalindor