How to best solve a major rewrite of an existing map?

[argent77]

In the mod I'm currently working on, I have added a quest that involves House Jae'llat in Ust Natha (AR2209.ARE). The members of the house have been modified to be friendly and your party can interact with them peacefully in the course of the quest. Since this quest changes almost all aspects of House Jae'llat I'm not certain how to handle the situation properly.

 

Currently I am modifying the hell out of map AR2209 and their associated resources. The upside is that other mods can add/modify items and other stuff that isn't changed by my mod. The downside is that some/most changes will be overwritten by my mod. Additionally, the mod has to be installed after mods that modify this area, so that I can make sure the quest is working properly. This also includes DavidW's Sword Coast Stratagems which already comes very late in the mod installation order.

 

The alternative would be to create a map that is identical to AR2209 and use it instead. The upside is that I don't have to deal with other mods and my mod can be installed much earlier in the mod installation order. The downside is that changes made by other mods aren't visible at all. I would make sure, however, that the original area is still accessible as usual if the player skipped the quest.

 

I can see advantages and disadvantages for both options. So it boils down to what solution is less destructive or more compatible in the end? I would really like to know your opinions on this matter.

[jastey]

Baronius' had a nice approach for his quest that occupies the FAI for a period of time: While his quest was running, the whole area was replaced (entrance linked to a different area file). After the quest was done, the original area was restored. Would this be a possibility for you?

 

If not, replacing an area is always bad in terms of modding ethics - even if it might make the most sense for your mod (which I don't know whether it does in this case).

Maybe I don't understand what you are changing, currently it sounds as if you give the inhabitants new (higher weighted) dialogue states. Do you apply many changes to the area that cannot be realiszed by patching the script? What is the specific reason that your mod would have to be installed after SCS?

[lynx]

My opinion sways to approach number 2.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Have you considered that you could make a new area that has the content ?

Say as the area is the Fighter hub(guild whatever) in the town, you can make the map marker in the town be placed elsewhere and thus point people to different entrance and so direct people to your new location if it involves the Fighter Guild... if it involves other facts... we would need to get the spoilers to actually answer. So it depends...

[argent77]

Baronius' had a nice approach for his quest that occupies the FAI for a period of time: While his quest was running, the whole area was replaced (entrance linked to a different area file). After the quest was done, the original area was restored. Would this be a possibility for you?

House Jae'llat is only accessible a single time in the normal course of the game, so your suggestion is basically the second option I have outlined in my first post. The result is, however, that all changes made by any mods (e.g. Item Randomizer) would not be accessible.

 

Maybe I don't understand what you are changing, currently it sounds as if you give the inhabitants new (higher weighted) dialogue states. Do you apply many changes to the area that cannot be realiszed by patching the script?

I'm replacing all of their scripts and dialogs and add new equipment to all available actors. Addionally I'm adding scripts and new items to most of the containers in the area.

 

What is the specific reason that your mod would have to be installed after SCS?

SCS adds a script that summons additional drow (who are already hostile) when the party enters the map. Additionally it alters the stats (strength, proficiencies, etc.) and possibly the Specifics value (have to check) of the existing actors which causes trouble in a certain event that happens in the course of my quest.

 

Have you considered that you could make a new area that has the content ?

That's an interesting idea I have to explore further. Adding a new map would solve all (or most) of my problems. It might be possible to add another great House to Ust Natha, although there isn't much unused space left on the map that I could use. Hmm, maybe I can use one of the buildings in the background...I have to check.

[lynx]

the stuff on the top floor has potential.

[argent77]

How about that building? I've used some Photoshop magic to add a new entrance.

 

Do you know of a mod that uses this building already?

[DavidW]

Make a copy, but make it at install-time (i.e., "COPY_EXISTING ar2209.are myarea.are APPLY_SOME_CHANGES"). Then you carry over any effects of any mods that you do want to come in before your mod, but you insulate your changes from later mods. Or just make a copy if you're not comfortable with that much WEIDU code or you don't think there are any mod effects that ought to affect your version. I really don't recommend anything that leads to a quest mod that has to be installed later in the install order than AI/tweak mods.

[cmorgan]

The Grey Clan episode 1 (Baronius) suggestion swapping in a copy would work well, but in this case, and especially with the extensive changes, I'd recommend adding a custom area and a new house. I steal a promenade existing info trigger and tag it on, some mods use a "porter" or "doorman" .cre that sends the party to the new area, but for real refinement, tag Miloch and Yavonoeth with Fishing for Trouble. They do this sort of thing elegantly, and wholesale.

[argent77]

Thanks for all your suggestions. I have settled for the unoccupied house linked to in my previous post. It now belongs to a new Great House in Ust Natha. I have changed the second entrance to House Jae'llat into a passage leading to the new House (the second entrance doesn't really make sense to me anyway since House Jae'llat has only one exit) and modified all map-related resources (search map, new map notes, etc.) as non-destructively as possible.

 

This solution gives me a lot more freedom to design my quest, and the mod should now be more compatible as well (at the very least I have one less problem to worry about).