SubtleMods: NPC_EE - in-game customization for NPCs

[subtledoctor]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

freshly recruited NPCs also keep known mage spells from a previous class when becoming a Sorcerer

This I can probably address. The mod broadly lets you retain spells if you switch from an arcane class to arcane class - don’t want to lose all Imoen’s spells if you make her a bard, right? But I can probably exclude sorcerers from this. 

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

Does your current version also support this method for "re-customizing" already "used" NPCs?

Not really, for the same reason it doesn’t work well with Charname: it is near impossible to remove proficiencies from characters. For static .CRE files you’ve never met before, I can tag their op233 effects and make them removable when the mod is installed. But any proficiencies you add in-game are basically indelible. For this reason, using the Tome should always be the first thing you do with an NPC. If you recruit Jaheira, play the opening dungeon with her, level up and get specialization with scimitars, and then use the Tome to make her a single-class druid, there will be no way to remove those two pips in scimitars. 

So you can use the Tome multiple times, but the NPC will get too many proficiencies and become more and more illegal. (You can use it to switch kits though, if you choose the option to not change proficiencies.) 

Edited October 26, 2023 by subtledoctor

[subtledoctor]

5 hours ago, Terminus Est said:

Aha! You need to level up before you run the innate. I was using the innate at level 0, before leveling up. Everything works as expected now.

Okay, thanks for the prompting. I now have a version of this that works at level 0, at least up to specialization. And it is actually more accurate to PROFSMAX to do it this way. Which makes me think… instead of giving an innate ability, should I just shuttle the player directly into the proficiency dialogue, before they even have a chance to level up? Just have it be an extension of the class/stat/kit character-building process in which you were already engaged?

Seems to me it would be smoother and more natural for players. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by subtledoctor

[subtledoctor]

Okay I made some adjustments and I am very happy with the way it works, so I am updating the mod again, even though it has been less than a day. Version 6.4 better integrates the 1st-level proficiency dialogue with the class-change choice, if you are higher than level 1 when you read the Tome.

This is basically cosmetic only, if you have v6.3 installed, or v6.2 with the hotfix, and you don't mind using that innate ability, then there is no need to update.

[Terminus Est]

4 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Okay I made some adjustments and I am very happy with the way it works, so I am updating the mod again, even though it has been less than a day. Version 6.4 better integrates the 1st-level proficiency dialogue with the class-change choice, if you are higher than level 1 when you read the Tome.

That was quick work! Out of curiosity, I checked to see how it what would happen if I gave a character just enough XP so that they were only level 1 in one class but a higher level in another class. I chose to test level-1 Imoen (Heya!) right after Gorion's death. I gave her 2000 XP, enough for level 2 thief but not only good for level 1 wizard. After reading the book:

• Changing Imoen to wizard, she got level 1 and went through the normal level up screen, including assigning proficiency pips.
• Changing Imoen to thief, I got the dialog to assign level 1 proficiencies after which I could level up normally to level 3.

I also tested to see if the proficiency dialog would allow me to assign multiple pips to a weapon for fighters and this appears to be the case.

Unrelated question:

What is the "Skill Focus" innate that thieves get? It appears to give a one-time bonus to a single thief skill. Bards get it, too, but you can only give them a bonus to pickpocketing. I didn't know that this skill bonus was a thing; it doesn't appear on the character generation screen.

[Dakk]

This is a great mod @subtledoctor and a worthy successor to L1NPC - well done!

Two potential issues I've run into, using version 6.4:

• Using option #1 (reset to level 0) seems to always give toons 2 hp too many, i.e. the 'temporary' 2 hp seems to be added to the correct hp amount after leveling up [HPMISMATCH]

Steps to reproduce:

1. Give level 1 Imoen (heya!) 2000 XP

2. Use option #1 in the book and make her a true class thief, i.e. not actually changing class

3. Level her up to Thief level 2

4. She will have 18 hp

5. Reload and do step 1 + 3 (omitting step 2)

6. She will have 16 hp

As far as I can tell the amount of hp is always correct, even when changing CON score, when using any option other than #1.

• Using option #1 (reset to level 0) seems to give thief points equivalent to one extra level [THIEFPOINTS]

Steps to reproduce:

1. Give level 1 Imoen (heya!) 2000 XP

2. Use option #1 in the book and make her a true class thief, i.e. not actually changing class

3. Level her up to Thief level 2

4. She will have 50 thief points to allocate (NB. if you level her as an Assassin = 30 points)

5. Reload and do step 1 + 3 (omitting step 2)

6. She will have 25 thief points to allocate (if you level her as an Assassin = 15 points, so available points seems systematic to kit)

Hopefully this error is on my side or I've just misunderstood instructions, but I'd be grateful if you could look into it!

Thanks  

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Dakk

[mickabouille]

I think the first part (2 hp) was already addressed here:

 

[Dakk]

8 hours ago, mickabouille said:

I think the first part (2 hp) was already addressed here:

 

Cheers! I actually tried searching for "2 hp" but couldn't find anything (still can't, so possibly too short a search string), thanks for finding that:)

I'm also blaming my lack of search-fu on the fact that the board has changed since I last posted.. in February 2015 

[mickabouille]

I guess someone could volunteer to skim the topic and aggregate a FAQ or Troubleshooting section, but you'd have to know what is still relevant and what isn't...

[subtledoctor]

19 hours ago, Dakk said:

Using option #1 (reset to level 0) seems to give thief points equivalent to one extra level

You’ve got this one backwards: when leveling up from zero in-game, the engine doesn’t give you enough skill points. You are supposed to get ~40 at 1st level and 15/20/25 at 2nd level. But the engine treats the jump from 0 to 1 like a normal level-up. So the mod gives you an innate ability that grants an extra 15 points via dialogue. 

[Dakk]

40 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

You’ve got this one backwards: when leveling up from zero in-game, the engine doesn’t give you enough skill points. You are supposed to get ~40 at 1st level and 15/20/25 at 2nd level. But the engine treats the jump from 0 to 1 like a normal level-up. So the mod gives you an innate ability that grants an extra 15 points via dialogue. 

I'm aware of the 40 points at 1st level, but as you can see from the steps to reproduce this has nothing to do with an innate (which incidentally also didn't manifest in my game). My experience was that a vanilla Imoen leveling from 1->2 will receive 25 thief points, while NPC:EE Imoen using option 1 will receive 50 thief points. Or put another way: using option 1 results in 25 more total thief points at the end point. Possibly I misunderstood you again?

Edited November 20, 2023 by Dakk

[subtledoctor]

On 11/20/2023 at 3:45 PM, Dakk said:

 My experience was that a vanilla Imoen leveling from 1->2 will receive 25 thief points, while NPC:EE Imoen using option 1 will receive 50 thief points.

25 point is what you get from level 1 to level 2; but you are talking about leveling from zero to level 2

EDIT - crap, what happened to my comment?? Argh. Anyway, point was, the engine actually doesn’t give you enough points, so the mod gives you an innate ability to make up the difference. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by subtledoctor

[Dakk]

.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Dakk

[Slythistle]

So I've been trying to reset Montaron because, frankly, getting my first Thief with no points in either lockpicking or traps is a farce. However, when I reset him to level 0, I only get 25 of his Skill Points to spend. Checking in EEKeeper shows he's somehow held onto 10 points in HiS, so he's only missing 5. vHowever, if I level him up to a level higher than 1, he is missing 30 points, in addition to the 10 locked in HiS. 

Based on Terminus' comment above, I'm guessing I should be getting an innate ability called Skill Focus to proc those extra points, but it's not spawning. Any idea what could be causing that? I'd edit the scores in EEKeeper, but my CHARNAME has some mod spells that EEKeeper deletes, so I may just have to deal with Monty having 40 "wasted" points at level 1 (or at least wasted until I can get traps and locks covered).

[subtledoctor]

On 12/10/2023 at 7:50 PM, Slythistle said:

when I reset him to level 0, I only get 25 of his Skill Points to spend. Checking in EEKeeper shows he's somehow held onto 10 points in HiS, so he's only missing 5. vHowever, if I level him up to a level higher than 1, he is missing 30 points

Okay I think I see the problem here. When you level up from zero, when it comes to proficiencies, the game is buggy and treats a jump from 0 to 1 (works normally) differently from the jump from 0 to 2 or higher (bug, the game robs you of several proficiency points). 

I mistakenly remembered thief skill points working the same way, so I coded the “Skill Focus” innate to only appear if you jump from 0 to 2+. 

What actually happens is, the game gives you as many skill points as you usually get on level-ups, regardless what level you jump to. So as an example, I just tried changing Montaron into a single-class Assassin with 1 XP. Upon leveling up from 0 to 1, I could choose two proficiency points (good) but only allocate 15 skill points (what Assassins usually can allocate for a single level-up at higher levels - bad). I did not get the “Skill Focus” innate (bad).

Then I reloaded and gave Montaron 4,000xp. Then used the Tome and changed him to a single-class Assassin. Because my XP was higher, his two level 1 proficiencies were chosen within the dialogue (good). From level 0 he went to level 3. I had no proficiency points to spend (but I already did, so, good) and I could allocate 45 skill points. After leveling up I had the “Skill Focus” which gave me an extra 20 skill points (good). 

So the fix here is to simply give out that Skill Focus innate ability even at low XP values. Easy-peasy, will get on it. 

EDIT - fixed in version 6.5. Cheers!

Edited December 18, 2023 by subtledoctor

[Slythistle]

Thank you so much! Guess I'll stop being so skimpy with his xp, but I'd read about the potential proficiency issues in the readme and didn't want to break that either. XD

I'll definitely keep this in mind next installation. Don't want to upset my delicate install order just yet by reinstalling mods while in progress. XD