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I wish a "Skip SoD" or "SoD be gone" component


Fouinto

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Hi,

Short :
I don't know if you consider to make a new version of EET Tweaks one day, but if you do, I wish you add a way to go from Sarevok death to Irenicus's Dungeon (without playing SoD part).

Long :
Maybe you already read here once that I don't like SoD (I don't remember the thread, but... who cares...). I don't say SoD is bad, but I don't like it (I don't really wish to argue/polemic...).
Since EET requires SoD, I started few times EET from the begining and stop each time around Chapter 8 (sometimes even sooner...). I wish to continue BG2EE part, but I am not in the mood to go through SoD :(.

I don't ask an EET version that doesn't require SoD (It would require far too much work for only few people*... Anyway, I bought SoD, so I still have it, so I can use it when installing EET :) ).
I don't ask you to spend hours to make something story-wise but something that is the most simple for you to make/support.

As an example, in my very first EET run (this forum did not exist yet... SoD was not available...), I remember that when you have killed Sarevok you were directly teleported to Irenicus's Dungeon (no picture, no text). Can you add a component to EET Tweaks that "restore" this behavior ? or something that add a dialog to Imoen at the very beginning of SoD-prelude that skip SoD ? IMHO, a component like this could fit EET Tweaks.

I hope you can do something about this, but I would understand you don't : your time is precious and it seems it's not worth* a modder do something about it. There is already a "Skip Candlekeep" and a "dungeon be gone", what about a "I bought SoD but I don't want to play it anymore :)" ?

*I sometimes read here or there that I am not the only one to dislike SoD (moreover, not always for good reasons...), but I also know it doesn't happen very often...

Edit : See this post

Edit : See this post

Edited by Fouinto
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I actually do agree with the idea by the OP, despite the shaky somewhat hard to understand grammar (that is, assuming such an option wouldn't be exceedingly difficult to provide). xD

 

The beamdog entry is seen by many as not being up-to-par to Black Isle quality, and by others as not even a true "canon" game to the franchise so to speak given the nature of it's release by a completely different studio. To me, the option for removing SoD seems justified, and would probably save some people money who only want to play 1 + SoA + ToB (the "canon" series so to speak) in a merged journey.

 

EDIT: To be honest, when I saw this mod I thought "ahhh, do I have to get SoD to play this?"

Edited by Unkinhead
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I don't know if you consider to make a new version of EET Tweaks one day.

 

of course it is planned ("soon"). Current version was created with patch 1.3 in mind. On current patch many tweaks don't work at all. To be honest I should have made this mod offline long time ago before changes are made - in current state it's a mess.

 

Can you add a component to EET Tweaks that "restore" this behavior ? or something that add a dialog to Imoen at the very beginning of SoD-prelude that skip SoD ? IMHO, a component like this could fit EET Tweaks.

technically no problems with that (other than awkward blank pages in journal between chapter 8 and 13) but I'm not sure if adding it to EET_Tweaks is a good idea. Reasons:

- such change may conflict with mods (example: Sandrah). Considering EET_Tweaks is installed at the end this could break someone's game.

- people usually don't read readme files (I'm guilty of it too) so may install such tweak by mistake

- there may be people that never played SoD but influenced by user score on metacritics decide to skip it. I'm not entirely familiar with the controversy itself so I can be wrong but from what I've read the score may be influenced by GamerGate, so it's possible that it doesn't really reflect common opinion regarding the expansion. Personally I find it better than any BG mod that I played (which is not really surprising considering it's paid content) so I think everyone should give it a chance at least once.

 

If there is demand for such change than external mod with self explanatory name like "SoD-be-gone" (installed at the beginning of installation so other mods could detect it and refuse to install if needed) would be a better idea, imo. If someone would like to create it (I'm to lazy to write readme file and not really interested in endorsing/hosting it) than all that need to be done is using this code:

COPY_EXISTING ~BDSODTRN.BCS~ ~override~
    DECOMPILE_AND_PATCH BEGIN
        REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~StartMovie("SODCIN01")~ ~~
        REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~MoveToCampaign("SoD")~ ~CreateCreatureObject("K#TELBGT",Player1,0,0,0)~
    END
BUT_ONLY
Edited by K4thos
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SoD-be-gone will come sooner or later (it is technically trivial). The issue of such a mod will be the game AFTER the skipped part. The consequences will be unforeseeable (and I am excluding Sandrah from it, she will not be affected at all).

 

Any mod would need to take into account a SoA+ToB campaign with or without SoD instead of a single established baseline. Instead of populating SoD with additional mod contents (like IWD-in-EET) you need to consider it as an exotic side-track. SoD is far better than I ever thought, I have so far discovered at least six (+variations) mayor different ways to go through the campaign (compared to two - otriginal - options to go to Brynlaw).

 

My only point here is - let that function not be part of EET Tweaks. This mod should clearly be one to support the ideas/concepts of EET and not have options that sabotage the isea.

 

And then we can have skips for every taste

- enter the Nashkel mines via the backdoor (how many times did you clear those upper levels already?)

- hire a druid when leaving Tazok's tent that gets you to Cloakwood mine (Who needs the rest of Cloakwood?)

- Bribe the guardians at Cloakwood mine to bring you directly to the boss (how many times did you clear those upper levels already?)

.......

You say this is against *canon*? The EET canon should be BG1 - SoD - BG2 - ToB (+ IWD optional).

Edited by Roxanne
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I actually do agree with the idea by the OP, despite the shaky somewhat hard to understand grammar (that is, assuming such an option wouldn't be exceedingly difficult to provide). xD

 

The beamdog entry is seen by many as not being up-to-par to Black Isle quality, and by others as not even a true "canon" game to the franchise so to speak given the nature of it's release by a completely different studio. To me, the option for removing SoD seems justified, and would probably save some people money who only want to play 1 + SoA + ToB (the "canon" series so to speak) in a merged journey.

 

EDIT: To be honest, when I saw this mod I thought "ahhh, do I have to get SoD to play this?"

when it comes to making the expansion not needed during installation than this is not going to happen due to reasons discussed in this topic In short: baseline content available for mods should be the same, otherwise it would be headache for modders.

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All : please don't use this thread to polemic on SoD/Beamdog (there are tons of these already elsewhere).

I don't know if you consider to make a new version of EET Tweaks one day.

of course it is planned ("soon"). Current version was created with patch 1.3 in mind. On current patch many tweaks don't work at all. To be honest I should have made this mod offline long time ago before changes are made - in current state it's a mess.

Take all time you need, you've already done so much for players with EET !

Can you add a component to EET Tweaks that "restore" this behavior ? or something that add a dialog to Imoen at the very beginning of SoD-prelude that skip SoD ? IMHO, a component like this could fit EET Tweaks.

technically no problems with that (other than awkward blank pages in journal between chapter 8 and 13) but I'm not sure if adding it to EET_Tweaks is a good idea. Reasons:
- such change may conflict with mods (example: Sandrah). Considering EET_Tweaks is installed at the end this could break someone's game.
- people usually don't read readme files (I'm guilty of it too) so may install such tweak by mistake
- there may be people that never played SoD but influenced by user score on metacritics decide to skip it. I'm not entirely familiar with the controversy itself so I can be wrong but from what I've read the score may be influenced by GamerGate, so it's possible that it doesn't really reflect common opinion regarding the expansion. Personally I find it better than any BG mod that I played (which is not really surprising considering it's paid content) so I think everyone should give it a chance at least once.

you convinced me (to be true, all your 3 points did)... I was totally wrong... EET Tweaks is not the good place. This "SoD be gone" component/mod should be very early in the installation process.

If there is demand for such change than external mod with self explanatory name like "SoD-be-gone" (installed at the beginning of installation so other mods could detect it and refuse to install if needed) would be a better idea, imo. If someone would like to create it (I'm to lazy to write readme file and not really interested in endorsing/hosting it) than all that need to be done is using this code:

COPY_EXISTING ~BDSODTRN.BCS~ ~override~
    DECOMPILE_AND_PATCH BEGIN
        REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~StartMovie("SODCIN01")~ ~~
        REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~MoveToCampaign("SoD")~ ~CreateCreatureObject("K#TELBGT",Player1,0,0,0)~
    END
BUT_ONLY

I will give a try to this code ! sure ! I thought it would be so much harder (increasing chapter several times, "tuning" NPC, who know what's more...).
l will give feedback (in this thread) if people are interested, and may even try to write the readme and host the mod (if others are interested).

SoD-be-gone will come sooner or later (it is technically trivial). The issue of such a mod will be the game AFTER the skipped part. The consequences will be unforeseeable (and I am excluding Sandrah from it, she will not be affected at all).

Any mod would need to take into account a SoA+ToB campaign with or without SoD instead of a single established baseline. Instead of populating SoD with additional mod contents (like IWD-in-EET) you need to consider it as an exotic side-track. SoD is far better than I ever thought, I have so far discovered at least six (+variations) mayor different ways to go through the campaign (compared to two - otriginal - options to go to Brynlaw).

My only point here is - let that function not be part of EET Tweaks. This mod should clearly be one to support the ideas/concepts of EET and not have options that sabotage the isea.

It's obvious that this "SoD be gone" mod would be technically incompatible with any mod having SoD content (such as Sandrah). This mod should be installed very early. BWS could tags mods incompatible and such.
Honestly, I will probably never install a mod with SoD content, even if this mod seems excellent... Each time I try SoD, I give up.
I have never said that SoD is not better than BG1EE+BG2EE for some peoples... The more I play SoD, the more It feels boring to me. It's just that, nothing more, nothing less.
K4thos has already convinced me : not in EET Tweaks, now, it's evident for me too...

And then we can have skips for every taste
- enter the Nashkel mines via the backdoor (how many times did you clear those upper levels already?)
- hire a druid when leaving Tazok's tent that gets you to Cloakwood mine (Who needs the rest of Cloakwood?)
- Bribe the guardians at Cloakwood mine to bring you directly to the boss (how many times did you clear those upper levels already?)
.......
You say this is against *canon*? The EET canon should be BG1 - SoD - BG2 - ToB (+ IWD optional).

To be true, I have never used "Dungeon be gone" or "Skip Candlekeep"... I am not interested in skipping any parts in BG1, BG2 or ToB.

I understand your point of view. Mine is also simple : I don't play EET anymore since EET require SoD (I made a single full run to be true).

And yes, before you ask, I prefer EET to BGT, because I love most of EE : I repeat : I have NOTHING against the work done by Beamdog on BG1EE or BG2EE.

 

I am not sure to understand your last sentence (sorry, as you can guess, English is not really my mother tongue). I also agree if you say that EET should stay BG1EE + SoD + BG2EE + ToB ( + IWDEE if you want as long as it's not mandatory when playing in the path from BG1EE to ToB).

 

Above, K4thos gave me everything I need to be a happy man a new :)

 

Thank you both for your "constructive criticism" :hug: , and special thanks to K4thos for the code : it's just like Christmas twice a year :laugh2:

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"SoD be gone" mod would be technically incompatible with any mod having SoD content

This is not the case. Just like "Dungeon be gone" or "Skip Candlekeep" or "Skip Irenicus", that mod would still be based on an install that has the full contents (resources etc) of the complete game (see K4thos earlier comment), You would just jump a couple of chapters and never see their contents. You will also never meet the NPCs that start in that skipped section.

But since those chapters nevertheless still exist in the game, there are no technical issues. Basically you just set a couple of globals and a change of locations after Sarevok's dead. Nothing of the skipped part is removed from the game.

I will probably never install a mod with SoD content,

You may not need to be that restrictive. Take for example Sirene NPC. It has BG1 and SoD contents and you could install this mod without issues. You just never get to see her SoD contents, that is all.

Edited by Roxanne
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"SoD be gone" mod would be technically incompatible with any mod having SoD content

This is not the case. Just like "Dungeon be gone" or "Skip Candlekeep" or "Skip Irenicus", that mod would still be based on an install that has the full contents (resources etc) of the complete game (see K4thos earlier comment), You would just jump a couple of chapters and never see their contents. You will also never meet the NPCs that start in that skipped section.

But since those chapters nevertheless still exist in the game, there are no technical issues.

 

correct, you can still install any mod with SoD content compatible with EET. I was referring to mods that may need the SoD game world progress in order to work correctly later on (that's why Sandrah came to mind since other mods are usually made with single campaign in mind). Things like setting up some variable, talking to someone or have access to SoD areas - notice that if you skip whole SoD you won't be able to visit these areas during SoA because links between SoA-SoD areas won't be active (although BG1 ones will be visitable).

 

I will give a try to this code ! sure ! I thought it would be so much harder (increasing chapter several times, "tuning" NPC, who know what's more...).

l will give feedback (in this thread) if people are interested, and may even try to write the readme and host the mod (if others are interested).

already tested. You can check it out with save appended to this post (it's made with SCS installed but it shouldn't really matter).

000000041-Sarevok battle SCS.zip

Edited by K4thos
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It's obvious that this "SoD be gone" mod would be technically incompatible with any mod having SoD content (such as Sandrah). This mod should be installed very early. BWS could tags mods incompatible and such.

Honestly, I will probably never install a mod with SoD content, even if this mod seems excellent... Each time I try SoD, I give up.

 

NO. Sirene-BG1 and Sirene-SoD are separate components in the same package that can be installed individually. The only thing the mod requires is a post 2.0 version of the game because of some of the 2.0 dependent content, and versions 1.5 and below are compatible with 1.3 and completely playable. I ask that you at least do some research instead of making assumptions or brushing things off because most of us do consider this stuff.

Edited by Artemius I
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