New & Improved Cleric Kit Thread

[Andyr]

Can: Shouldn't the levels of those innates be taken down by 1 (1,3,5,7,9,11,13)?

 

Also, since Selune is NG shouldn't LN and CN be prohibited?

[Grim Squeaker]

Can: Shouldn't the levels of those innates be taken down by 1 (1,3,5,7,9,11,13)?

Can? Lol...

 

Yeah I agree that it should be shuffled down by 1 level.

[CamDawg]

Grim, giving the kit three innates at level 0 seemed a bit much, even if one of them is worthless. Moon Shield is there, just tucked away at level 6.

 

For the alignments--in 2e, Silverstars of Selune are only allowed as CG. 3e says NG, CG, CN. I went for NiGHTMARE's compromise suggestion of allowing alignments available to worshippers, which is non-evil in 2e. We can tighten them up a bit.

 

For the innate progression it depends on when you're taking away a spell slot. I was thinking that they would still get their first X-level spell slot at the same level as true-class, but it's the second spell slot of a level that gets 'replaced' with an innate. IMHO it just seems more logical, though my opinion isn't too strong about it. I.e. using the regular cleric spell progression below, the ones in red are the ones that get 'replaced' with an innate (looks like I should probably push Summon Air Elemental out to 17):

 

..1 2 3 4 5 6 7

 

1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0

 

2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0

 

3 2 1 0 0 0 0 0

 

4 3 2 0 0 0 0 0

 

5 3 3 1 0 0 0 0

 

6 3 3 2 0 0 0 0

 

7 3 3 2 1 0 0 0

 

8 3 3 3 2 0 0 0

 

9 4 4 3 2 1 0 0

 

10 4 4 3 3 2 0 0

 

11 5 4 4 3 2 1 0

 

12 6 5 5 3 2 2 0

 

13 6 6 6 4 2 2 0

 

14 6 6 6 5 3 2 1

 

15 6 6 6 6 4 2 1

 

16 7 7 7 6 4 3 1

 

17 7 7 7 7 5 3 2

[Grim Squeaker]

Whoops didn't notice the Moon Shield was there later!

 

Yeah your reasoning makes sense. Probably better to go with that.

[NiGHTMARE]

Also, since Selune is NG shouldn't LN and CN be prohibited?

Selune is CG BTW has anyone else noticed that while she allows her clergy to be neutral-aligned, her regular worshippers have to be good? Doesn't really make much sense, does it?

[Andyr]

Cam: Sorry for having written Can!

 

NiGHTMARE: I thought she was NG- since she is CG, then shouldn't Cleric alignments be NG, CG, CN to follow the One-Step rule?

 

I guess it doesn't matter that much whether the innates are gained at even or odd levels. The way I have done Shar for now though is on odd ones.

 

Bons has just sent a Shar Holy Symbol BAM, too.

[CamDawg]

I've officially changed my mind: I think Silverstars should be NG, CG, and CN.

 

Andyr, how did you implement the one-less spell disadvantage? I think we need to come up with a consistent max spell and innate progression. I favor the one I used above (naturally ) since clerics will still get their first X-level spell at the same level as a true-class cleric, and their bonus innate doesn't kick in until they fall a spell slot behind. I'm open to suggestions, though.

[Grim Squeaker]

I've officially changed my mind: I think Silverstars should be NG, CG, and CN.

 

Andyr, how did you implement the one-less spell disadvantage? I think we need to come up with a consistent max spell and innate progression. I favor the one I used above (naturally ) since clerics will still get their first X-level spell at the same level as a true-class cleric, and their bonus innate doesn't kick in until they fall a spell slot behind. I'm open to suggestions, though.

I agree we need to be consistant with these kinda things. So Cam, do you think Bri will let you out of the shackles long enough to start making some of these?

[Andyr]

I have done the one-less-spell as a spell with a delay of 1 set in the CLAB each time a new casting level is gained, to remove the new level.

 

It has been a bit funny, I am not done testing it 100%.

 

Yes, consistency is important.

[CamDawg]

Whoops, I wasn't very clear--what does your cleric spell progression table look like?

[Grim Squeaker]

So are we all happy with the Selune kit? If anyone has any objections, speak now or forever hold your peace. Otherwise I'd set that one in stone Cam and move onto the next one. Hint: TALOS!

[NiGHTMARE]

I'm pretty sure this one-step rule thing was something introduced by 3E. The chart I made shows what the restrictions are in 2E, taken from Faiths & Avatars and Powers and Pantheons.

 

The Selune kit sounds good If we're going to do all those new spells, we may as well include the ones which are regular cleric spells too (Alicorn Lance, Faerie Fire, Moon Blade, Moon Shield, Conjure Air Elemental).

[Andyr]

It's just 1 less spell per spell level, I'm not sure of the exact appearance as I don't change whatever file controls that.

 

So instead of:

 

1: 1

2: 2

3: 2 1

4: 3 2

5: 3 3 1 etc...

 

or whatever, it's:

 

1: 0

2: 1

3: 1 0

4: 2 1

5: 2 2 0 etc...

 

This does mean that a WIS 10 Cleric at level 1 has no Priest spells. But:

1. They have their domain spell.

2. Nobody plays Clerics with WIS 10 at level 1, anyway.

[Andyr]

What's the thought then on alignment? One-step rule or the 2E ones? I don't mind, really.

[CamDawg]

One-step-out is definitely a 3e convention. However, I do like it because it gives more options for kit selection--strict 2e means only one alignment per kit, which is too restrictive, or taking clergy/worshipper restrictions, which seems to be too broad. The unmodded BG2 cleric kits throw alignments out the window (CN Helmites!), so I don't mind doing it either.

 

Stormlord of Talos

 

Talos is the evil god of storms, destruction and rebellion. Clerics of the Stormlord warn that Talos must be appeased or he will rain destruction upon the land.

 

Alignments Allowed: CN, NE, CE

Races Allowed: Any

 

ADVANTAGES

+1% electrical resistance per level

Destructive blow 1/day (+2 THAC0/damage for 1 round/level)

Shocking Grasp at lvl 1

Lightning Bolt at lvl 3

Storm Shield at lvl 5

Protection from Electricity at lvl 7

Chain Lightning at lvl 9

Harm at lvl 11

Destruction at lvl 14

 

DISADVANTAGES

One less spell per level

Major access to the spheres of all, animal, astral, chaos, combat, elemental, healing, necromantic, summoning, war, weather

Minor access to the spheres of creation, divination, protection, time

No access to the spheres of charm, guardian, law, numbers, plant, sun, thought, travelers, wards

 

HLAs

Horrid Wilting

Wail of the Banshee

 

edit: Oh yeah, forgot about WIS bonus spells. The net effect is that any cleric with WIS > 12 will still get their X-level spells. I'll go for that, with one change: push the last innate down from lvl 13 to 14, as that's the level where level 7 spells are granted.