Steal These Magic Items!

[Endarire]

Greetings, all!

As posted on the Black Hearts thread, I made.this item list of things that seemed appealing to me and apt for BG1EE/EET.  Initially, items in this mod were made for Black Hearts, but since it's my work and I feel generous and like sharing, I hereby give permission to use these items in any Infinity Engine mod you make so long as you give me credit for inspiration.  Note that the linked Google Doc is strictly text, not code.  These are item descriptions not yet made as of this writing into playable experiences.

Read the Design Philosophy section to better understand why I made the items as I did!  This section answers a lot of questions!

I'm also tagging @morpheus562 and @Dan_P here because they may be interested in including these items or ones like them in current/future mod packs.

Everyone, go ahead, mod, and enjoy!  Alleluia!

(I'm also well aware that the strict definition of 'stealing' requires taking without permission.  My usage was a casual, friendly encouragement for others to use these while crediting me.)

[temnix]

I thought at first this was an appeal to steal some items that already exist in the games... steal them and do what with them? Maybe just out of malice... Anyway, I had a look at the list, and, if you were to drop everything but the item descriptions, that might inspire some modders. There is no need to explain a "design philosophy." Everyone already has got a "design philosophy," it shows in the things he makes. And what players want, what players expect, even if accurate - what is it to you? It's not like you can argue in an acceptance of your ideas. You simply make what you want, and if that's predictable and comforting, you will find more acceptance, if it is original and eye-opening, less. You will find yourself in the spectrum somewhere, like it or not, and all these presentations and prevarications are like a long disclaimer.

That said, imaginary items remind me of similar inventories in AD&D resources like the Tome of Magic and the Complete Wizard's Handbook (if I'm not mistaken, that one had this kind of section). I remember the dragon slippers - you put them on and begin to look like a young green dragon... The difference between Pen&Paper and IE modding, of course, is that in a tabletop game an item is created the moment it is imagined, but here it needs to find an expression in code. That's one thing; but every item, no matter its properties, also needs a unique appearance. That means at least two custom pictures, one for the item icon and the other for the description page. The item icon consists of two frames, one with a shadow for when the item is picked up, and it is better if this one is a little larger than the dropped frame. A third picture, for a ground icon, should also be made if the item is very unusual.

The item may also be consigned to a new category for the purposes of equipping. For example, if you are making a broad, soft hat, you don't want to make your item a Helmet, because it will be accompanied by clanging metallic sounds on pick-up and drop-down. Instead you want to find or record more appropriate, softer, textile sounds for both motions and put the item into a new, rarely used type, changing the type's entry in ITEMTYPE.2DA and assigning it to the head slot, or adding a new item type; as far as I know, this (re)assignment is only available in the Enhanced Editions, so you might have to produce a poorer, fork version for a "classic" installation. (Anything that goes into the head slot, in particular, protects from critical hits, and if you don't want your soft hat to do that, you will have to tick the appropriate box, "Toggle critical hits," in item properties. It is a flag that only works in ToBEx or the EEs, however, so there is another condition for your installation file, another fork. All such differences must be mentioned in the item description as well.)

This all sounds petty and beside the point, but quality of execution requires that you think of all these: types, special properties, pictures, sounds, and other graphics that will be played in special effects and sounds to be used there. You understand, then, that really memorable items can't be very numerous. I'm not going to touch here on item descriptions very much. Write something interesting there, better than "This sword flares with fire when it hits" or "Adventurers found this long ago, no one knows where," all right? There are way too many lousy "stories" like that in Baldur's Gate 2. Another circumstance to consider, and really a big one, is where and how you are going to make the items available. Plunking them in stores is boring, the best equipment should be won, not bought. Accordingly, you need to think about what chests, containers, whose inventories to add these items to, replacing something already there, perhaps, and the balance of the operation. Power balance, cash balance. Any new items equals store sales. In truth, new items are best suited to new areas and adventures just being populated... A few places are more appropriate for additions than others. I tend to put scrolls with new spells in the inventories of wizards on the Ice Island in BG1, and usually I combine these gifts with booster spells for the carriers, giving them +1 to Armor Class, a few extra hit points, increasing their level and so on, to offset the extra finds.

Provided you have all that in hand, you can move on to the last thing, or the first thing, if you are coming from the opposite direction, whether the item's suggested powers can actually work? And if they can, do those powers make much difference? Some items from your list are impossible. For example, staves of energy substitution. There is no way to alter the type of damage a spell does in this engine. Items that give bonuses while held in the inventory? Impossible as well, only equipped items can do that (there is an exceptional, unwieldy and risky workaround involving the main script, BALDUR.BCS, but you don't want to go there unless this item is really special). Et cetera. Some of the effects you would like can be welded onto rings, amulets and so on, though, including bonuses to specialization.

Besides the impossibility in many cases, there are already items that give bonuses like you suggest. There are items that cast Identify, for instance, which is an easily available power even in the first BG, if you have a wizard in the party other than Edwin. Buying identification at 100 gp a pop is one of the few restraints on the party purse's ballooning early on. The party will still swim in gold within a couple of chapters, but not SO soon, at least. You add simple identification, and what is the result? Even more useless money in the characters' pockets, even fewer goals, even less to do. Does this encourage imagination, open new activities to the party, encourage players to approach the games from a different angle, write new stories? Hardly.

Likewise, there are items that give Intelligence and Wisdom bonuses. Why not instead try to come up with a way to make those stats more relevant? Then players would want to boost them without prodding. Intelligence in particular is an underdog. It is not used for anything except spell memorization. Other games, like Arcanum, Fallout, reward being smart (Arcanum plays out in an altogether different way if the character's Int is low), but in this line-up - nada. And as to how you could make Intelligence relevant, here is one possibility: make it an experience-gatherer. In brief, characters project an aura onto neutral and hostile creatures that brings back a few points of experience from each, helping out the whole party, in proportion to the character's Int. This aura could, perhaps, work even better for bards and give them a reason to mingle with crowds. So there is a way to make Intelligence a hot stat, though I won't claim it is a terribly interesting one. But it is entirely doable.

I suggest you try to think of new and engaging uses for (in this case) items and narrow down the list to what can be done at all, then to what is worth doing, and then commit to making the finalists read, look and sound impressive. Even so, I wouldn't expect much reaction on these half-dead boards. But if you, at least, resolve to make the things instead of just throwing up confetti... and again, confetti are enough for a make-belief game, for tabletop play, only not for cold, hard and old code... then you might rouse such technical experise as sometimes crops up here, and get a little help, and with tons and tons of hard work all your own end up making something worth noticing.

Edited August 30, 2021 by temnix

[AnnabelleRose]

I'll start by saying +1 to what temnix said here, and Lava said at Beamdog.

I am planning on getting back into nodding within a year to two. I lost interest in the large one I was working on, but I have a ton of new .bams, and a few items in various stages of completion so I plan to release a store/item mod from its ashes.

So I thought why not, let's look at this list.

103 pages...

Okay, let's try to look through this... Okay the first part looks like some kind of manifesto where you try to explain to modders who, what, why, when, where they should mod.

Yeah, there are a few hundred different opinions on that.

So we'll skip ahead to the items... Which are blatantly ripped off from other sources, and you want them created with your exacting instructions..

At that point, this happened:

CamDawg edit: warning, gore

Spoiler

CamDawg edit: warning, gore https://ibb.co/QHK3WTN

Look, it's great you are excited about the game, it is fun, moreso with mods.

First off, you'll be lucky if anyone actually reads that entire novella.

Secondly, the only way this will ever see the light of day is if you learn to code, and make it yourself. 

It would be one thing if it was 1-2 items that would fit a WIP mod well, but this?

Also, what would people credit you for? All you did was compile and post a novella/manifesto of things you ripped off.

I get it, it was exciting when I got credit for helping on my first mod... Especially since I have been around since TeamBG 1.0 and DSotSC was shiny and new (you could even send money and they'd burn you a CD of the mod - a download of that size on a 56k modem took forever. Thank the Goddess for a program called Net Ants which let you resume/pause downloads in the case of a disconnect - don't get me started on the headache that was BGT in the early days either...).

I digress, items are fairly simple to code. There are tons of tutorials, and people in the various nodding communities are often happy to help if you get stuck.

The only thing better than getting credit for helping on a mod, is taking credit for creating your own mod.

Just do yourself a favor; start small.

I've seen too many epic mods by first time modders die because it was too ambitious, and the work became daunting.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by CamDawg
FFS, spoiler that image

[CamDawg]

Honestly, wtf? Don't post images like that, especially without a warning.

[DavidW]

I like design information. I don't systematically make item mods but I occasionally need one for a quest reward. Being able to get a sense of how someone is thinking about balance and the like is helpful both in deciding whether to look for a specific item, and getting a sense of how deeply the author has thought through the balance and playability implications. I'll bookmark this next time I need an idea.

[AnnabelleRose]

Sorry about that.

I knew I should have used one of my other ones...

[Endarire]

@DavidW
Thankee!

The intent is to provide something for many or most characters.  That's why I strove to have at least one new weapon and shield of each type.

The design philosophy section is simply that - an explanation of why I did what I did.  It may seem like a section that's "by designers, for designers" but it's also is intended to answer many questions, like, "Why did the author of this document think this was appropriate/fun?"

[subtledoctor]

FWIW there are some good ideas there. Some ideas I don’t like, as well, but that's to be expected. I have some back-burner ideas for my item tweaks (e.g. I’ve never like IR’s Robe of the Weave) and some of these might fit the bill. 

(As always, though, don’t hold your breath!)

[Endarire]

@subtledoctor
Thankee!

What items and concepts especially appealed to you and why?

Edited August 31, 2021 by Endarire

[subtledoctor]

The Slow Arrow idea is nice - though I don't like the idea of having multiple versions at different enchantment... in general, I don't think having +1/+2/etc. versions of a single item is a good idea. Things should be unique. But anyway, I think Bioware did a fairly crappy with ammo ("here is some elemental ammo, here is some x hp/y seconds poison arrows, that's all - oh, and if you use a sling you are screwed out of even this much"). I would add even more special-effect arrows, like "Fairy Arrows" (sleep on hit), arrows that entangle, etc.

OTOH my mod already turns that sort of thing into special Archer Called Shots, so I don't have particular need of the ammo in my games.

The Earthquake-proof boots and the Sanctuary boots are nice ideas (not at-will, though)... in general these games need fewer Boots of Speed and more varied and interesting footwear.

A Mage Hood with invisibility detection is a nice idea, though it might be annoying to implement.

I like the idea of triggering Turn Undead from an item instead of the base ability.

I'm not a fan of filling up the game with stat-bonus items, or spell slot-bonus items, and I think casting speed bonuses should be almost entirely excised. (Casting speed and spell interruption is generally too important in these games.) Ans as I said, I don't like the idea of +1/+2/+3 versions of items.  IMHO enchanted gear should be bespoke, with unique lore. (Another mod of mine removes all generic "+x" gear from the games.)

My eyes started to glaze over when looking at the weapons - there's just too much stuff here. Broad advice: these games have a LOT of magical loot - way, way more than any equivalent tabletop campaign would have. And there are lots of mods that add more magical gear, often filling any perceived gaps in what's available to various classes and kits. If you are thinking of making an item mod, I would suggest being hyper-focused and add just a few very cool and interesting things, which you think fill a gap in what the game already offers. Alternatively, make a few things as replacements for vanilla gear - not additions. Quantity is not needed in this game, and will probably not be appreciated by players. Quality will.

Edited August 31, 2021 by subtledoctor

[AnnabelleRose]

If memory serves, the Alex Macintosh mod I converted from mac specific IAP to WEIDU sells arrows enchanted with slow.

If it wasn't that mod, it was another one.

I know I've used them in the game...