Spoiler: Katanas on Ogre Mages?

[Grey Acumen]

Okay, I've been pestering various people for TUTU to implement the use of Katanas by all ogre mages. The standard lines I got were:

 

Katanas shouldn't even be found in Amn, we dont' want to put them in the Sword Coast.

Ogres are too stupid to use a weapon that requires the level of skill that a katana needs.

There's no obvious reason for Ogre Mages to be useing katanas...

 

 

Now all you have to do is figrue that Ogre Mages are quite obviously based on Oni (Japanese Demons or Ogres), the style of armor they wear and the sword they carry screams out oriental, and they are Mages, so obviously they are intelligent enough to cast spells, they shoul be capable of using a katana...

 

So Katanas are implemented such that Ogre Mages drop Katanas instead of Bastard Swords, right?

[icelus]

[Kish]

Okay, I've been pestering various people for TUTU to implement the use of Katanas by all ogre mages. The standard lines I got were:

 

Katanas shouldn't even be found in Amn, we dont' want to put them in the Sword Coast.

Ogres are too stupid to use a weapon that requires the level of skill that a katana needs.

There's no obvious reason for Ogre Mages to be useing katanas...

 

 

Now all you have to do is figrue that Ogre Mages are quite obviously based on Oni (Japanese Demons or Ogres), the style of armor they wear and the sword they carry screams out oriental, and they are Mages, so obviously they are intelligent enough to cast spells, they shoul be capable of using a katana...

 

So Katanas are implemented such that Ogre Mages drop Katanas instead of Bastard Swords, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...

 

So why are they called "Ogre Mages" instead of "Oni," if that's what they're meant to be?

 

Ogre mages are...ogres who are mages. They're not "based on" anything Japanese. "The ogre mage," says the Monster Manual, "is a more intelligent and dangerous variety of its mundane cousin." Variety. Cousin. Not a refugee from Kara-tur.

[Caedwyr]

Actually, in the Kara-Tur setting there are Oni. They are not Ogre Mages, and they are a type of spirit, not a creature. Different critters.

 

Edit: Err, what Kish said.

[CamDawg]

Katanas shouldn't even be found in Amn, we dont' want to put them in the Sword Coast.

They are rare, yes. I think they're too common in BG2, much less BG. (Though I do, nonetheless, add three in the exotic items pack.)

Ogres are too stupid to use a weapon that requires the level of skill that a katana needs.

I agree, that's not a legitimate reason.

There's no obvious reason for Ogre Mages to be useing katanas...

Yes.

 

Now all you have to do is figrue that Ogre Mages are quite obviously based on Oni (Japanese Demons or Ogres), the style of armor they wear and the sword they carry screams out oriental, and they are Mages, so obviously they are intelligent enough to cast spells, they shoul be capable of using a katana...

I agree that, based on the avatar, there was certainly some Japanese influence in the artwork. I would describe the jump from a Japanese-influenced design to "obviously oni" as ambitious. Ogres are not unique to Japanese mythology, and we'd be remiss to somehow assume that because they look "oriental" they need katanas. More to the point, oni are traditionally depicted as using kanabou (essentially two-handed iron clubs). Onis in general are also your garden-variety, dumb ogres, and not necessarily magic-users--though like ogres, there are a handful that can use magic.

 

So Katanas are implemented such that Ogre Mages drop Katanas instead of Bastard Swords, right?

Err, no. Even if we concede that they are, indeed, oni, the traditional weapon remains a kanabou. If we inisist on making the weapon match the avatar, there's still no case to be made for a katana over any other of the Japanese-themed weapons (ninja-tos or wakizashis or even scimitars, if we wish to use cirved-blade swords). Even conceding that, we still do not address that no matter how much ogre mages seek them, katanas they remain very rare on the Sword Coast.

[Bri]

From the Monstrous Manual, Second Edition, for Dungeons and Dragons (the source of monsters for BG I and II), the description for the Ogre Mage is on page 273:

 

Ogre Mage:

The oriental ogre has light blue, light green, or pale brown skin with ivory horns. The hair is usually a different color (blue with green, green with blue) and is darker in shade; the main exception to this coloration is found in ogre magi with pale brown skin and yellow hair. They have black nails and dark eyes with white pupils. The teeth and tusks are very white. Ogre magi are taller and more intelligent than their cousins and they dress in oriental clothing and armor.

 

Combat: (skipping the first paragraph)

 

In battle, ogre magi prefer naginata (75%) or scimitar and whip (25%). Those found in oriental settings might (25%) possess ki power or have mastered a martial art. As ogre magi are intelligent, they will not fight if faced with overwhelming odds, but will flee to gather their forces or hide.

 

Habitat Society (skipping to the middle half of the second paragraph)

 

The tribe will have their own clan symbol typical to the oriental lands, and this symbol will be stitched on the war banners and flags as well as on armor and headresses. The chief will often have the tribe's symbol tattooed on his forehead or back.

 

 

So, I think it is fairly certain that the Ogre Magi would be of Eastern origin...in this case, the lands of Kara-Tur.

 

And...it is possible that some of them might have katanas, but very unlikely. Katanas are rare to begin with, and the most common way an ogre mage would have one is if it won it in battle.

[Grey Acumen]

well, from the description that was just put in place, they indeed are Oriental... care to name a country that is part of the orient... like say... japan?

 

Okay, okay, so I have to admit, I would be exaggerating to say that "Yes, all ogre mages are japanese, thus, they must have katanas" I'll cede that point, but I have to admit that I was always bugged by the fact that the avatar for the ogre mage has eastern style armor(like traditional samurai armor), holds a curved sword that does not quite match a scimitar, and everything about the stance(sword is held down low, off to one side in one hand) screams out "I'm holding a katana!!!"

 

I mean heck, that would also give the katanas a good place to go where you wouldn't wonder what the heck they are doing in stores...

 

Oh well... as a consolation, I would be quite willing to accept it if someone would make avatars for the ogre mages that gave them the use of Naginata...

[Ghreyfain]

Are you assuming that they're coming to the Sword Coast from Jap--Kara-tur, or what? I suppose if they all got on a boat and floated over here they might have brought their swords with them, but if they're a native of the Sword Coast, then a bastard sword seems good to me.

 

Maybe someone powerful like Kahrk would have a katana +1, and another unique ogre-mage (who's that dude with the Nereid?) might have a non-magical one. I think that might add the flavour you want without going too crazy and flooding the inventory of one guy on the sword coast with more katanas than exist anywhere in a thousand mile radius.

 

Where does TutuTweaks add the katanas as it is?

[CamDawg]

Obligatory *spoiler* for anyone who doesn't want to know.

 

 

 

 

I was very stingy with katanas and only added three, and from a practical standpoint only one is actually useful for an extended period. A +2 cursed katana is added to Krumm, one of the two geniuses that attack the dryad and her tree in the Cloudpeaks. A plain katana is in the possession of Melium, the self-proclaimed great swordsman at the Firewine Ruins. The third katana, a +1 variant, is in the possession of Haseo, one of the members of the party you fight right before Sarevok.

[Ghreyfain]

Okay, that sounds cool to me.

 

What's the curse, now that we're talking about such things?

[CamDawg]

Think Rod of Terror, except it'll drain any stat.

[Andyr]

Why are katanas and not wakizashis or ninjatos being requested for the Ogre-magi?

 

I don't really watch Anime or know Japanese folklore, so if there's some obvious reason why not then I won't know of it.

[hlidskialf]

Why are katanas and not wakizashis or ninjatos being requested for the Ogre-magi?

 

I don't really watch Anime or know Japanese folklore, so if there's some obvious reason why not then I won't know of it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

My guess is because the damn OgreMagi are so big that a ninja-to or wakizashis would be comparable to a dagger in their use. I'd think they'd prefer something a little more intimidating.

[Bri]

Are you assuming that they're coming to the Sword Coast from Jap--Kara-tur, or what?  I suppose if they all got on a boat and floated over here they might have brought their swords with them, but if they're a native of the Sword Coast, then a bastard sword seems good to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is an instance where the makers of AD&D just pulled monsters from whatever region they thought were appropriate without giving any actual thought into how they got there.

 

Take the couatl, for example...definitely a Meso-American monster, and yet they are also flittering around Faerun...and this was long before they came out with their Maztican supplement. Same goes with the Ogre Mage I imagine.

[Andyr]

Why are katanas and not wakizashis or ninjatos being requested for the Ogre-magi?

 

I don't really watch Anime or know Japanese folklore, so if there's some obvious reason why not then I won't know of it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

My guess is because the damn OgreMagi are so big that a ninja-to or wakizashis would be comparable to a dagger in their use. I'd think they'd prefer something a little more intimidating.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Heheh.

 

Well, what about the other one - Naginata? Isn't that just like a spear/halberd? That'd not be too exotic, and fairly intimidating, if someone wanted different weapons.