Alternatives to ToF

[DavidW]

Talents of Faerun treads on already-well-trodden ground. There are plenty of mods out there that do overlapping things, and I don't want to make any claim that ToF is preferable to them. Different people will have different preferences; I encourage you to check out the alternatives and try whatever seems the best fit to you.

To that end, here is a partial list of other (currently- or recently-maintained) mods that try to do similar things to ToF. I don't intend this list to be exhaustive.

Subraces

Subrace Mod (tipun)

HLAs

Refinements (T.G.Maestro, Littiz, the bigg)
Rogue Rebalancing (avenger_RR)
Skills and Abilities (Morpheus562)

Cleric faiths

Divine Remix (Andyr, CamDawg, NiGHTMARE)
Faiths and Powers (GrammarSalad, SubtleDoctor)

Mage/Sorcerer options and kits

Tome and Blood (Aquadrizzt, SubtleDoctor)

Rule-system and proficiency tweaks 

Scales of Balance (SubtleDoctor)
Skills and Abilities (Morpheus562)

 

[subtledoctor]

This is nice. To nitpick a bit, Scales of Balance has been retired for a short while. Most of it can now be found in Combat Skills & Proficiencies and SubtleD's Stat Overhauls.

EDIT - and yes I am aware my signature is in dire need of updating. Should try to get around to that...

Edited December 13, 2023 by subtledoctor

[morpheus562]

Regarding HLAs, I don't see there being a compatibility issue between Skills and Abilities and yours. It just means the player would have even more HLAs. I haven't dug into all you offer, so some may be thematically similar, but they should still play together.

[DavidW]

11 minutes ago, morpheus562 said:

Regarding HLAs, I don't see there being a compatibility issue between Skills and Abilities and yours. It just means the player would have even more HLAs. I haven't dug into all you offer, so some may be thematically similar, but they should still play together.

That sounds right, certainly for warrior HLAs (priest/mage ones are a bit more complicated because they're tied into spell schools/spheres).

I don't recall how destructively ToF installs itself. (There are almost certainly lots of places where I can tweak things to improve compatibility; this was a complicated enough project as it was that I wanted to prioritize getting a beta out that worked in its own right and with SCS, and then address other compatibility issues through iteration.)

[morpheus562]

I think skills and abilities is safe to install after ToF as I try not to destructively edit. Only one that I know won't work is your specific prof overhaul and mine, but that is the same as the prof overhauls offered by Tweaks Anthology and Doc's new mod.

[subtledoctor]

Out of curiosity (I suppose this is as good a place to ask as any, since it bears on compatibility): stuff like subraces, druid multiclasses, auto-supplied initial proficiency pips… is this stuff basically just accomplished by UI modding?

EDIT - a more concrete and immediate question: does the sphere system work like e.g. the DR system, zeroing out the values at 0x1c and adding spells to spellbooks via kit ability tables or a similar mechanism? Assuming that is the case, is there a marker file or LABEL etc. that I can use to detect the ToF sphere system?

Edited December 13, 2023 by subtledoctor

[Chitown Willie]

Hi David,

First, a big thank you for all your hard work; between ToF and the new SCS, it certainly calls for a reinstallation.

Just an additional category to your above list:

Class and Kit Revisions

Rogue Rebalancing > Thief Kit Revisions, Bard Kit Revisions
Song & Silence > Changes to trueclass bards and thieves, and unmodded game kits
Might & Guile > [Numerous kit revisions]
jMerry's Tweak Collection > Shapeshift corrections
aTweaks > Restore innate disease immunity to Paladins

 

[DavidW]

12 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Out of curiosity (I suppose this is as good a place to ask as any, since it bears on compatibility): stuff like subraces, druid multiclasses, auto-supplied initial proficiency pips… is this stuff basically just accomplished by UI modding?

Mostly, yes. In some cases (e.g. Druid multiclass) it’s just cosmetic - the Druid ‘classes’ themselves are of course just cleric kits, and the UI edit hides that. In others it’s central - the sphere system works by giving every priest all the spells and then getting the UI to hide the disallowed ones. (Come to think of it, the Druid multiclasses rely on that too.)

[DavidW]

9 minutes ago, Chitown Willie said:

Hi David,

First, a big thank you for all your hard work; between ToF and the new SCS, it certainly calls for a reinstallation.

Just an additional category to your above list:

Class and Kit Revisions

Rogue Rebalancing > Thief Kit Revisions, Bard Kit Revisions
Song & Silence > Changes to trueclass bards and thieves, and unmodded game kits
Might & Guile > [Numerous kit revisions]
jMerry's Tweak Collection > Shapeshift corrections
aTweaks > Restore innate disease immunity to Paladins

 

Thanks, that’s helpful.

[Angel]

No mention of my Made in Heaven: Spellpack which does add HLA's and tweaks some classes and kits.  I'm hurt.

[DavidW]

6 minutes ago, Angel said:

No mention of my Made in Heaven: Spellpack which does add HLA's and tweaks some classes and kits.  I'm hurt.

Happy to take requests!

[Trouveur80]

I would also add in the cleric faith category :

 

Deities of Faerun from Raduziel

 

And in the Class and Kit Revisions :

Artisan's Kitpack from The Artisan: https://artisans-corner.com/the-artisans-kitpack/

Bardic Wonders : https://artisans-corner.com/bardic-wonders/

 

And alternative spellcasters :

Shadow Magic : https://artisans-corner.com/shadow-magic/

Warlock : https://artisans-corner.com/warlock/

 

Rule-system and proficiency tweaks   :

Artisan's House Rules : https://artisans-corner.com/house-rules/

[DavidW]

Not all of these actually overlap with ToF, but I’ll add those that do.

[subtledoctor]

4 hours ago, Chitown Willie said:

additional category to your above list:

2 hours ago, Trouveur80 said:

would also add

I think the idea of the list is specifically to identify conflicting mods that cover the same ground. So you would use DR or FnP or DoF or ToF for priest spheres; S&A or CSP or ToF for revised proficiencies; etc. But, like, AKP and MnG and ToF might all coexist just fine. 

As far as compatibility goes: I can’t tell from the Readme, is this modular or an all-or-nothing deal? Is there a valid install in which someone would add ToF priest kits but not the ToF sphere system? 

Is there a file or label to detect the ToF sphere system? I’m working on an update of another mod (5th Edition Spellcasting) right now and it would be nice to make it compatible. 

Neither here not there, but I’m suuuper curious to see how Use Scrolls/Wands is implemented. 

[DavidW]

36 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Is there a valid install in which someone would add ToF priest kits but not the ToF sphere system? 

No, all the priest kits in ToF presume the ToF sphere system. 

38 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Is there a file or label to detect the ToF sphere system?

Look for weidu_external/markers/dw#spheres_installed.mrk

38 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Neither here not there, but I’m suuuper curious to see how Use Scrolls/Wands is implemented. 

SPECIFICS field.