Lightbringer

I meant more of the multi-classing aspect, rather than the spell list. If you select the 3rd ed variant at character creation, then recruit Aerie at, say level 10, will she be a Mag5/Cle5 (3rd ed multi), or a Mag9/Cle9 (2nd ed multi)? Eh, the choice is there to stick with 2nd ed or try 3rd-lite. Guess I'll have to try it a couple times to test them all out. Darn.

Thanks for the update, @K4thos! Oh wow. I'm rather blown away by those screens. I was under the impression that the IWD1&2 content would be added to the AD&D 2nd ed rules of BG EET. Does this mean that, by having IWD-in-EET installed, our regular BG EET characters will have feats and skills available? 3rd ed multiclassing? I saw a screen of Aerie's spell list. How does her Cleric/Mage combo work there? Am I going to be leveling up Keldorn in Watcher's keep and considering whether to take a level of fighter and get a new feat, and whether to spend his skill points on Persuasion or Intimidate? For that matter, I also saw references to Wisdom improving Will saves and making cleric spells harder to resist (Spell DCs?). I'm assuming that's just text used while making GUI changes, and not representative of that much engine overhaul, 3rd ed style. Please correct if I'm mistaken! I did see at character creation that one can select between Classic and 3rd edition, at least. Sorry, mind boggled over here ...

Fantastic! I've always wanted to try Amber, and with ToB on the horizon my party will finally be complete

Ok I see what you mean. In my mind I do divide the major quests of Ch2 into tiers. I hit up the circus and the slavers as tier 1 -- basic recovery of assets. Then explore the rest of the misc content in the city districts and sewers, D'arnise and Trademeet. That's tier 2. Windspear, Umar, and the first level of Watcher's Keep is tier 3. By this point I have enough +3 weapons to tackle the demons in the Planar Prison and the Planar Sphere -- tier 4. Sometime around tier 2 or 3 I remember to get the Thieves Guild -- it's not a priority, so I let it languish a bit. Around the same time I go for the Unseeing Eye cult. The beholders freak me out, even with the Shield of Balduran. Advanced stuff like the various liches and the Twisted Rune usually get left for post-Underdark. Now, I've yet to play a modded BG2, beyond simple things like Unfinished Business and a few NPC mods, so I assume that "progression" would be altered. My next run (with IWD!) will be a full mega-mod EET setup, with SCS. Completely different experience.

Dude, that sounds like a lot of fun. I don't know how feasible it is to turn BG et al into that idea, but I'd sure play a new game like that.

I think I understand your point now better than I did at first. By reducing global gain, the experience you gain from the Vale of Shadows would NOT be enough to ready you for the Temple of the Forgotten God or Dragon's Eye. You would have to return to the Sword Coast and do other things, then return to IWD later, with greater levels. Is that what you intended? I think some amount of that may be achieved by normalizing the (ridiculous) quest xp in vanilla IWD. It was designed to artificially propel you up the XP charts. Without that, you will likely have a different leveling experience, though perhaps not to the full extent of a Metroidvania-esque unlocking of areas. Personally I'm a big fan of Metroidvania elements in gameplay, as part of your reward for accomplishing tasks is a new tool to find more cool things -- or access the things you've been seeing the whole time. Tougher to do in traditional RPGs. It's more of an action-adventure-RPG type of thing, by default -- like Legend of Zelda.

Heh, not sure if that was sarcasm or sincerity, Imp I've thought about it a lot, actually. I don't usually have a great need to feel "challenged", but I don't want things to be a total walk in the park, either. I also don't go heavy on the spellcasting, so the greatest effects of level gains (spell slots) aren't as heavily felt in my party. Part of the problem is that, in my mind, a hobgoblin is worth 35xp, and a troll is worth 1400xp, etc. If I reduce things, I'm going to feel cheated. Feeling like I'm not receiving the full reward is a quick way to get me to lose interest. I'd actually rather hand craft adjusted XP tables for everyone (even if the result is effectively the same as above) than reduce the raw gain. It's a mind game, but still necessary for my own proclivities. I sort of use multiclassing as a shortcut for halving the XP gain. It's not perfect, but I like multiclassing in my D&D anyway. I also get to feel like I'm getting something out of it, not just receiving half the gain for the same activity pre-EET. In fact, I actually plan to have my Pally (who can't multiclass) be something of a benchmark. I'll probably periodically reduce her XP via console to keep her from being more than a couple levels ahead of the rest of the party, late-game. Maybe I won't feel the need to.

I think that's how I plan to play it, more or less -- though I'm not sure yet how I want to manage the XP issue. So far, I've been making everyone be multi-classed, but keeping normal XP. I expect over leveling and use SCS to compensate. Probably going to need the inflated quest XP rewards in IWD to be normalized in any case.

That .... is oddly more "plausible" each time I read it.

Ooh! It should totally include Firkraag's battle against young Gorion, too! Maybe an option where he could join your party. Which one joins, you ask? Why not both? I see nothing wrong with this request. Nope, nothing.

@IstfemerWow that's a lot of inconsistency! Sometimes I'm glad I usually don't notice these things.

@IstfemerNo knock against your efforts at all. As a worldbuilder myself, I have great respect for your attempts at accuracy. I think the appeal of the default map -- to me personally -- is multifold. I like the "painted" look. Something about the softer tones evokes a more fantastic impression -- almost verging on the dreamlike. I also very much like how full the default map gets. I found EET in the first place from looking for maps for a Forgotten Realms tabletop D&D campaign and finding the default EET map in a Google image search. That map fills me with a sense of excitement over just how many cool places I'll get to go experience all in one game. It dwarfs anything in the vanilla experience of BG1, SoA, ToB, IWD1 or IWD2. Seeing them all together, all at once, in the same map, was almost a religious experience. I think the larger BP-BGT map just has too much empty space. While actually much more realistic and to scale, it gives more of a "that's it?" sense than a "wow, all that?" sense. Of course, it's not a completely fair comparison -- the default map includes icons from DSotSC, NTotSC, and TDD, at least. Pure personal taste. I guess I prefer my illusions xD

Ok ... I think I understand now what's going on I wasn't clear on the distinction between the BP-BGT world map and the default EET map. In each one of my EET installs, I was disappointed with the map because I had selected the BP-BGT map at install. I was left to wonder why I wasn't seeing that beautiful map that I now know is the default EET map. Topological accuracy notwithstanding (all respect to @Istfemer), I find the default EET map far more aesthetically appealing than the BP-BGT map -- in either the original or proposed form. I will be using the default. Since I am not likely to be a user of the BP-BGT map mod, please feel free to file my various opinions in this thread into the trashcan

Interesting. I had not really thought a lot about the sense of the placement of the various locations. This is certainly different than vanilla. The more I look at it, the more some of it makes sense, in particular the locations of the southern BG1 icons. I can see a trip through the mountains with the Dryad of the Cloudpeaks on your way to the Xvart Village and Gnoll Stronghold. It was always my first big "excursion" with a fresh team, often pre-Naskell mines. The secluded mountain locations make it seem more exciting. I will also add my vote for a non-"clothified" option. That filter was something I disliked about the other big EET map we've been using. I prefer clarity. @Ulb -- You are a gentleman and a scholar, sir.

Good to know! I always really liked the storytelling framing the IWD1 campaign

@K4thos Glad we could all be of help. It's good to know that there will be a default method of access native to IWD-in-EET. One thing I would like to add: I know there's been some dislike regarding the book framing method of access -- which I largely also dislike. I am, however, very much a fan of having the option to have the book reading cinematics -- play. Specifically, I think the opening should play upon initial travel to IWD1 areas -- start of IWD1-- and the closing cinematic should play upon defeat of Belhifet in Easthaven -- end of IWD1. Is that something you plan to do K4thos? What do the rest of y'all think? (Particularly @Ser Elryk )

That's a really good point. I had forgotten how much they artificially boost your leveling via those quest rewards. Still, even if it shaves, say, 5-10 whole levels off by eliminating those rewards, that's still a good chunk of gain. Also, going from frost giants and demons back to Coast Way bandits and xvarts is a bit of a let down Actually, I think you hit the nail right on the head there. What I'm seeing more than anything from these discussions is that there is a strong call for a variety of methods of placing IWD1 into EET. There is indeed no "one-size-fits-all" solution. I don't know if @K4thos would want to include simple mechanics for each of them, but it would be really nice to have a few things covered from the get-go. 1. Basic come and go method, however cheesy, for those of us who want to interlace IWD1 with our BG1/2 adventures. Personally, my tolerance for cheesiness is high. I just want to experience IWD1 with my BG party. I'll hand-wave and head-canon whatever justification I want, regardless of what text appears on screen 2. Go and don't return until finished method (twisted wish?), for those of us who want a little more immersion. You could even choose when the method appears -- Early BG1, BG City, BG2 Waukeen's promenade, etc. I agree with what I've seen that it probably shouldn't just be another option for a standard (limited) wish. It should be a wish type effect caused by a separate person or object. 3. For any route, have the ability to choose whether or not to transfer some of all of the rewards -- xp, treasure, etc. Let's keep that modular, customizable spirit of EET! 4. Flexibility in implementation to allow any ambitious modder to override the above for some other grand idea. Or other options I may have overlooked. These could be choices at install-time. As I have no experience with weidu modding, I have no way to determine the relative difficulty of implementing the above. Take it with appropriate grains of salt I actually think you could accomplish 1 & 2 simultaneously. Have the party travel there "permanently" via the twisted wish (whether encountered in Beregost, Amn, or parts in between), then have a dialogue option from Arundel to gift that come and go object. If you don't want to come and go, don't ask for the gift. If you do, then do so. Done. Regardless, I would like to see a few basic options be available from release that could be expanded upon by other modders as they see fit. It's tired and I'm late (or is that "It's late and I'm tired?") and I'm going to stop before I ramble even more

The dream idea could work, but I'd need a way to bring back items. It may sound weird at first, but there's already plenty of precedent for dreams to produce physical effects for the bhaalspawn -- sounds lingering, cold, pressure, etc. You wake up with new abilities. It's not that far of a further stretch to awake with physical objects. I think we all need to agree going in that, for IWD1 to appear in EET at all, there's going to have to be a little extra willing suspension of disbelief. One advantage of the dream approach is that you could allow the player to decide in-game whether or not XP, Spells, gold, items, etc are brought back -- perhaps even on a per-dream basis. Total customization. Edit: H/T @Leeux, you already noted the customization ability of the dream

@K4thos It's definitely a tricky problem. If you consider a "typical" idea of progression for a BG1 game, you might be level 2-3 for Nashkel, 5-6 for the Bandit Camp, then hit the level cap in Baldur's Gate City proper. Of course, all this varies widely with party numbers (1? 4? 6?) and play style -- or level cap removers. Regardless, Nashkel or Beregost could be a good first place to introduce the IWD1campaign. Here's why it's important to be able to go back and forth between segments of IWD1 and BG1 -- you finish IWD1 near level 20. That's Spellhold/Underdark levels, and you haven't even been to the Cloakwood. It would completely ruin the rest of BG1 to do it all in one haul. I can see, then, the reasoning behind the whole IWD1 experience not affecting the rest of BG-EET. However, I still think we need to find a way to combine it all meaningfully. Many of us want to enjoy the rewards of IWD1 just like we would any other large quest mod. I see this as two different problems -- mechanics, and lore/story. Mechanics: what is the best way to allow a party to experience IWD1? Lore/Story: How is the above mechanic justified within the world of the Forgotten Realms? Personally, I believe the first problem must be solved independent of the second. Only afterwards should we find a way to justify it. With all the creative minds here, I'm sure we can come up with something that can work. As stated above, I believe we need a way to go back and forth at will between campaigns. Perhaps do the Intro plus Vale of Shadows after Nashkell, Dragon's Eye after Baldur's Gate City, Severed Hand after Chateau Irenicus, Dorn's Deep before Spellhold -- or whatever other order fits a player's own idea of progression. Now as to the justification: There are many possibilities. Here's one. 1. If you implement the Twisted Wish idea, you could have Arundel (the Druid I think?) in Kuldahar sense that you are "displaced" and give you an enchanted seed that allows you to travel back and forth between times. You can make it at will or time limited -- even working only once per large story event in IWD1. Why does Arundel have that seed? A gift from Sylvanus, of course. Sylvanus, being Neutrally aligned, could present such a gift to a party of any alignment. Here's another. 2. No twisted wish. Your destiny as a Bhaalspawn has distrupted the fabric of spacetime in the Realms. Why? Good question. Perhaps we'll never know. A powerful being from the past has his destiny altered by your future. The whole thing is coming unraveled. You must return to the past and ensure that what happened remains so -- defeat Balhifet in Icewind Dale -- thus insuring that his fate remains intact for you to defeat him in SoD. Whoever reveals this to you (probably highly cryptically) gives you a strange object that allows you to go back and forth in time (as you grow in power) to ensure that the past events in IWD1 proceed as they must.

Thanks for the update! Seems we're getting closer and closer @The_Rock -- regarding multiplayer. I would assume that, like any other modded BG(2):EE game, multiplayer is completely possible. I ran a modded, non-EET, BG1:EE game with 2 other friends and it worked just fine. The trick is to make sure that you and your friends all have exactly the same game files. Any deviation can cause weird effects in the game text. A BG-EET install produces a standalone folder containing the entire game. The simplest thing is to have one person create that standalone game folder, then share it with the other participants. (I am -- naturally -- assuming all players already have purchased the game client themselves )

I understand the need to separate out IWD 1. There are areas that are repeated in IWD1 and IWD2. Does that icon on your map for Kuldahar or the Severed Hand take you to the IWD1 or IWD2 version of the map? I would have preferred to have both IWD 1 and 2 coexistent with all of BG, but it just isn't feasible, continuity-wise. IWD1 takes place many years (nearly a hundred, I think?) before the events of both BG and IWD2. All the IWD2 icons will still appear on the combined map. When it comes to XP adjustments -- the mod should not force a particular style. One of EET's strengths is that, through tweaks, it can acommodate many styles of play. Some players prefer to ensure that their PC still has no more than 161k XP by the time he faces Sarevok -- despite having undertaken NToTSC, DSotSC, Stone of Askavar, Grey Clan, etc. I faced Sarevok at level 13 or 14 (I think?) having done all those things with no XP reduction. I am very strongly opposed to forcing a "you can't take it with you" approach to the rewards from IWD1. Let us decide how to manage our own party's progression. Accessibility: I have heard many folks talk about *when* in the BG saga should IWD1 fit in. Like above, I think that will vary by player. I've heard some say it should be post-BG1. Others say Nashkel. There are good arguments for many places. I think the best bet is for the option to become available fairly early on, and to leave it up to the player to decide when to make the journey. Likewise, I strongly feel that we should be able to come and go between adventures. A way to make this all occur is for there to be an item or ability that simply transports the party between the IWD campaign map and the full BG-EET map. Why the PC has that item or ability can be left up to others. That's where time-travel, demon scroll, wish, or whatever can come into play. It does appear that the events of IWD1 must remain in the past, and the present-time BG-EET map can and will have the IWD2 (etc) icons on it. Whatever the justification, I very much want to be able to come and go from IWD1 and BG-EET -- just like I would with any other large quest mod. Or IWD2, for that matter. I'm intrigued by the level scaling mentioned. I'm glad to see that for IWD1, at least. Let's face it, the early parts of IWD1 would be an absolute cakewalk for a moderately developed vanilla BG1 party -- especially late BG1. A party that has done other large mods has an even easier time. I will probably use the scaling option. Thanks so much for all of your hard work so far, K4thos!

I believe you can do that using Near Infinity. It's a file explorer/editor for IE games. The XP values for traps/locks/spells should be in one of the .2da files.

Same here. Big fan of the new one.

Fascinating! Thanks for the update, K4thos. EEex sounds like it has the potential to revolutionize EE modding. I look forward to seeing what comes of it. Heh, I first discovered EET here ... gee has it been 2 or 3 years already? 4? I remember I had just started a coop game with some buddies who had managed to never play the BG games -- one of whom "claims" to have played BG2, but when pressed reveals he stopped after exiting Chateau Irenicus xD When I discovered EET, I proposed we start over with that instead. I offered the option to wait until the full IWD-in-EET package was available for us. We opted to wait. It's been probably 3 years, and I'm sure they assume the idea is dead. Well, not me! It'll be fun surprising them soon (summer?) with an "oh by the way guys, it's completed!" Great work!

I found this text on Roxanne's website on the support page for the Install Tool. It may offer an explanation for the dropbox links that is more benign: "Spellhold and Gibberlings 3 mod hosting is often down and on such events they stay down for some significant time periods. To compensate for such failures, Install Tool has been adapted to download many missing mods from backup sources. In order to avoid confusion or inconsistencies with the official download links for the mods, no links of workarounds are published. Any backup sources are kept inside the install tool."