4e in the works

[berelinde]

Hunh ? Tyr killed Helm?

I thought both of them + Torm are on friendly terms or something

Yeah, but love (and associated organs) makes guys do funny things.

 

To tell you the truth, this all reads as simplification. There are too darned many FR gods. A few less wouldn't be so bad.

 

As I understand it, the vast number of skill selections and feat selections have been dramatically reduced, as well. That's a blessing, since it means you don't have to dump skill points into basic activitities. From what I've been able to gather, it looks like they're going back to allowing certain proficiencies as automatic with certain classes. Thieves are assumed to know how to open a lock, etc. Also, with Mystra out of the picture and magic free of the Weave, traditionally non-magic using classes will now have access to it, albeit at a higher cost. And mages would be able to acquire fighting skills, also at a highter cost. No objections here.

 

Something just struck me as funny. Xan won't tolerate a half-elven lover because he'd miss the spiritual connection the Weave provides. What with the weave being destroyed and all, I guess he'll just have to learn to talk to his partner to find out how she's feeling.

[Caedwyr]

Nah, Xan probably won't have to worry about learning to share his feelings verbally. He'll most likely be dead due to the spellplauge, the magical backlash that acts as the Apocalypse in general and especially nasty to spell casters in particular.

[berelinde]

In a way, I must confess a certain satisfaction that the much touted unity with the Weave together with spellpurge and the destruction of Evermeet, will probably make elves pretty rare in the FR, as of 4e. I'm sure there are bound to be individual exceptions, but elves, in general are annoyingly smug in 3.5e. Hubris, anyone?

 

(Hey, don't get me wrong, they're fun, and I've got an elven NPC on the edge of completion myself, but a small, oft-ignored part of my brain is rubbing its virtual hands together and cackling. It had better not be glee, or those neurons are in for a serious talking-to.)

[Caedwyr]

My biggest complaint with it, is how the 100 year timeshift is making a large part of the existing lore more or less useless. One of the attractions of the FR to me was the exceptional level of detail of the people and places of the Realms. This change pretty much means that all the 1st and second edition material is only useful for trivia and destroys the multitude of plot hooks found in the older material.

 

The other thing that irks me is how out of character and forced the mechanism for change is written. The FR deities definately didn't seem to be like the Olympian gods prior to this, so behaving like them is a fairly large shift in characterization. Like you said, it seems to be an effort at simpilization. I'd argue that they didn't really need any deity simplification, since for example the Romans had hundreds if not thousands of gods that were venerated and the FR has 100 or less, counting all the various intelligent species.

 

Also, it appears that the Blood War has now never existed, that Elementals are a type of demon/devil, and that the lower planes never existed either. Or something. Maybe I'm just strange, but I liked the 2nd Edition Great Wheel for the cosmology.

[Guest Guest]

Wow, some serious changes here kinda wonder what the heck is Ao doing when all those chaos are being unfold before him (like letting Mystra being murdered by Cyric and let the blasted world turn to chaos, etc, etc)

Eating pop corn while he watches?

 

I kinda imagine that the ORH would simply 'break' since the Order houses both knights of Tyr and Helm

[close2myheart]

That was me forgot to sign in sorry

[berelinde]

In the BG2 series, Helm is a big part of it, but according to cannon sources, if Helm is involved in the ORH at all, it's only marginally. The ORH is mostly Tyr, Torm, and Ilmater.

 

During what was probably the last days before going to press, the deity system of BG2 was greatly simplified. They seemed to pick just 3 gods, and weren't necessarily very logical about it: Lathander for good characters, Helm for neutral ones, and Talos for evil ones. That makes sense for Lathander, because LG, NG, and CG can all coexist in Lathander's doctrines. Helm, however, is more focused on the law/chaos axis than the good/evil one. So CN Anomen, priest of Helm, is just plain ridiculous. That, and there seemed to be a bit of confusion about whom he should worship. He calls himself a priest of Helm in his lovetalks, but there is a banter where he says that he and some other squires of Torm, a clear indication that some writer or other was confused, at some point. Talos, is more chotic in nature, although he's also evil. His worshipers typically align NE/CE/CN. In other words, don't base perceptions about ORH, or anything else, on BG2!

[close2myheart]

Yikes sorry 'bout that. just that I sorta know Faerun lore only by the games I played (BG n NVN) and to be honest I'm a newb in this kinda stuff.

Is there any other books/reading material so I could get to know more about DnD ? Where should I begin

[BigRob]

If you want to know game mechanics and very basic setting, the Player's Handbooks, Monster Manuals and DungeonMaster's Guides will tell you all you need to know. Be aware though that 2nd and 3rd editions do have some significant differences in feel. That includes loss of richness of the setting in 3E to my mind, by eliminating many classes of monster, languages and combatising of the magic system, but it does have some useful additional stuff such as a sample pantheon of gods, half orc characters, more classes and a smoother multi-class system.

 

 

If you want background on Faerun, I recommend the 2nd Edition Forgotten Realms Boxed set (or the 3E equivalent) any of the area decription books (Silver Marches, The Sword Coast, etc) and especially the Volo's Guides.

[Sorrow]

Also, it appears that the Blood War has now never existed, that Elementals are a type of demon/devil, and that the lower planes never existed either. Or something. Maybe I'm just strange, but I liked the 2nd Edition Great Wheel for the cosmology.

Personally, I hate such arbitrary changes of canon :/ .

Also, I hated how they turned elven infravision into darkvision.

 

I liked some aspects of AD&D combat like weapon speed and AC modifiers vs. different weapon types. It was realistic and weapons were really different and different types of weapons were useful.

Not to mention the lack of Orkish Bumerang Double Axes and Three Handed Halabard Flails ...

 

Also, AD&D had better, more realistic illustrations that featured practical, historically correct armour and people who actually had anatomically correct proportions and weren't big headed mutants...

[berelinde]

Yikes sorry 'bout that. just that I sorta know Faerun lore only by the games I played (BG n NVN) and to be honest I'm a newb in this kinda stuff.

Is there any other books/reading material so I could get to know more about DnD ? Where should I begin

I wouldn't necessarily recommend reading any of the novels. BigRob's got good advice: the FR sourcebooks (D&D materials, not novels) are an excellent resource. Many outdated versions are available as free downloads. Just visit the Wizards of the Coast website, and you'll see links.

[Kulyok]

Nah, Xan probably won't have to worry about learning to share his feelings verbally. He'll most likely be dead due to the spellplauge, the magical backlash that acts as the Apocalypse in general and especially nasty to spell casters in particular.

 

Heheheh.

 

But, people, you're not getting it. DRIZZT IS DEAD!

 

 

EDIT: Probably not. Orc King novel and all that; too much to hope for. But - how do you know all this stuff about dead Helm and destroyed Weave and all that, except hints in the Orc King(and Jarlaxle series pointed to Netheril rising, too)? DnD Insider/DnD Wiki/Wizards site do not seem to have that, unfortunately.

[INS-Hyacinth]

Nah, Xan probably won't have to worry about learning to share his feelings verbally. He'll most likely be dead due to the spellplauge, the magical backlash that acts as the Apocalypse in general and especially nasty to spell casters in particular.

 

Heheheh.

 

But, people, you're not getting it. DRIZZT IS DEAD!

 

 

EDIT: Probably not. Orc King novel and all that; too much to hope for. But - how do you know all this stuff about dead Helm and destroyed Weave and all that, except hints in the Orc King(and Jarlaxle series pointed to Netheril rising, too)? DnD Insider/DnD Wiki/Wizards site do not seem to have that, unfortunately.

 

Most of this comes from "The Grand History of the Realms", which came out very recently. Some is from the various articles that Wizards have posted, but most of those are general DnD and aren't necessarily applicable to a Realms game. They're still causing an amusing amount of angst and dismay among some of the more fanatical FR fans.

 

Anyway, Helm is killed by Tyr in 1384 in a rather bizarre dispute over a possible marriage between Tyr and Tymora in which Helm was acting as a go-between. Something in that - there's no detail available - causes Tyr to challenge Helm, and Helm accepts the challenge, which he loses.

 

You can also write off some dwarven gods. A Gold dwarf expedition had set off to reclaim their old kingdom of Shanatar and got into conflict with the local Duergar. Both sides gods get involved and both Duergar dieties are killed along with two dwarven ones (Gorm Gulthyn and Haela Brightaxe). And the Lady Penitent trilogy appears to be eliminating several drow, with Vhaeraun, Selvetarm and Kiaransalee being eliminated in the first couple of books.

 

The collapse of the Weave happens in 1385, when Cyric and Shar kill Mystra and Savras in Mystra's home plane. The Weave gets out of control, and lots of wizards go crazy - the Spellplague. It also appears that the Weave collapses entirely. Planes disintegrate and only greater deities can keep their homes together (which since every single divine plane except for the Gates of the Moon has at least one greater deity resident doesn't mean much).

 

And I can confirm that Drizzt survives all this, as does Elminster. That's an official statement.

[Kulyok]

Anyway, Helm is killed by Tyr in 1384 in a rather bizarre dispute over a possible marriage between Tyr and Tymora in which Helm was acting as a go-between. Something in that - there's no detail available - causes Tyr to challenge Helm, and Helm accepts the challenge, which he loses.

 

Poor Anomen! My favourite romance ever... I can just hope he survived that, or Stacey, my first human protagonist, would be really disappointed.

 

 

The collapse of the Weave happens in 1385, when Cyric and Shar kill Mystra and Savras in Mystra's home plane. The Weave gets out of control, and lots of wizards go crazy - the Spellplague. It also appears that the Weave collapses entirely. Planes disintegrate and only greater deities can keep their homes together (which since every single divine plane except for the Gates of the Moon has at least one greater deity resident doesn't mean much).

 

Ah, it is just like in "Gone With The Wind", then. Elves, and the Weave... an entire world. Beautiful; I always loved this book.

 

 

And I can confirm that Drizzt survives all this, as does Elminster. That's an official statement.

 

Heh, yeah, or the fans would've torn them apart, I suppose. I was more concerned about Entreri(against my better judgement, I liked his trilogy), but somehow, something tells me this one is going to be all right, no matter what.

 

But if a hundred years passed by, all Drizzt's friends should be dead?

[Simbul]

But if a hundred years passed by, all Drizzt's friends should be dead?

Wulfgar is most likely dead, IIRC. And in Orc King prologue, they did talk about Bruenor in past tense. Not sure about Cattie-Brie - Drizzt's carrying her bow, but somebody wrote that in the book she adopts studying magic under Alustriel, so technically she could make it with some longevity magic (I personally hope she won't; too much of a stretch).

 

I was more concerned about Entreri(against my better judgement, I liked his trilogy), but somehow, something tells me this one is going to be all right, no matter what.

I'm pretty sure he's still OK, after all, with all his fans and having been transformed to shade...

 

My biggest complaint with it, is how the 100 year timeshift is making a large part of the existing lore more or less useless.

Just don't make the jump. Nobody forces you to. Play the Realms as they are in 3 ed, or were in 2 ed. Or think of alternative history.