Witcher... here we go again.

[Skandrae]

I disagree with the 'not everyone wants to be evil' comment, I personally think that it's more that with the heat already on videogames, noone really wants to be the first to step and and make a game with baby-eating. I, btw, would try it out in a heartbeat just for the dead baby jokes. I was RAISED on dead baby jokes.

But if people didn't want to be bad guys, then GTA and other rampant destruction type games wouldn't exist. I personally hate being a good guy...but at least on this site, it seems I'm in the sad minority....oh well, more lewt 4 me!!

P.S. Curious though...who thinks that Jade Empire is an action RPG? Cause I don't.

[Lord Ernie]

P.S. Curious though...who thinks that Jade Empire is an action RPG? Cause I don't.

Let's see... an RPG where mostly any single quest ends up in brutally beating the hell out of the opposition, and where combat is twitch-based, so much so it plays like a beat-em-up. No, I can't see why you'd call it an action RPG at all.

 

Well, I think developers have the reason for that as being this: A true villain would kill your grandmother, make slaves of children, eat babies without batting an eye, etc., etc. You get the idea. Not many people really want to play as that character type.

Not that this discussion is about villains or evil in games, but... that's both one of the most simplistic and silly views of either I've seen in a while, and it's just blatantly untrue. Recent RPG's have tried more and more to incorporate options for the more evil players among us, up to and including the aforementioned Jade Empire. All still very simplistic, but the attempts are there. And you can do plenty of very evil things in Kotor 1 and 2 as well.

 

Deny it as you want Nightmare

It is still an action rpg.

The only thing I can come up to rationalise your shortsightedness is that you think an action rpg is an rts. But nah, action rpg's are hybrids.

Jade Empire was also one.

How this game differs from Jade Empire? (I didn't ask Domi, but if you ask her, she would say less role playing more action).

It had strong role playing elements but it was also real time action with little strategy much more twitch.

You simply can't say that a game with 'Innovative Real Time Combat' plus 'Role playing' isn't a role playing action game.

Or you can say that, but it makes you look silly.

Ah, yes, that's a wonderful way of debating things... saying the oppontent is silly and just plain wrong by offering his argument, yet your own argument is flawed. How do you define 'RPG'? According to you, that apparently means it comes with (turn-based) strategy elements. Well now, I say I call that a Strategy RPG. So now we have Action RPG's and Strategy RPG's... now show me a RPG doesn't decide conflicts either by real-time combat or by strategic battle, and I show you a game that doesn't exist.

 

The question isn't even if The Witcher is an action RPG. Does it have action in it? Well, some of the fights definitely gave me trouble and had me learn how to handle the game's combat system, so I'd say so. Does it have roleplaying elements? Well, I remember having to think very hard on upgrading some of my stats (which seems to mean roleplaying to some), and thinking even harder on what the Geralt I was playing would decide on a certain issue (which I reckon, is what roleplaying is all about)... I would think it does. Does the action element in any way diminish the roleplaying element? Not at all.

[NiGHTMARE]

Avenger: Sorry, but you're simply confusing the difference between turn-based and real time RPGs with the difference between action and non-action RPGs.

 

It is quite possible to have a turn-based action RPG, and a real time based non-action RPG.

 

I mean, Hellgate: London is clearly an action RPG, but if you removed absolutely all combat from it and added far more NPCs, proper dialogue paths, non-violent quests, etc, it would no longer be an action RPG because, well, it wouldn't have any action in it.

 

Also, if you're watching Die Hard and press the pause button every 30 seconds, that doesn't prevent it from being an action movie. Why should computer games be any different?

[Domi]

Apparently there are some good mods with quests and romanceable companions for a male pc. 'Laura Craft','Witch girl Adventure' and 'The White Wolf of Lokkan Mountain' or something like that.(Actually I think the last one has male and female companions and romances.) I haven't played them myself (downloads are big for dial-up) but they seem to be recommended a lot.

 

But you only get one companion at a time, or can you actually adventure with a party (that you do not slaughter accidently?).

[NiGHTMARE]

I believe you can have more than one companion, but they'd have to come from different mods (and thus wouldn't banter with each other) as AFAIK there are no single mods with multiple companions.

[Avenger]

Avenger: Sorry, but you're simply confusing the difference between turn-based and real time RPGs with the difference between action and non-action RPGs.

 

It is quite possible to have a turn-based action RPG, and a real time based non-action RPG.

NYAH.

 

definition:

An action role-playing game or action RPG is a type of computer and console role-playing game which requires quick action or reflexes from the player.

 

Source: wikipedia

 

Yeah, i know it is not an authoritative source, but definitely more authoritative than you or I

[Domi]

I believe you can have more than one companion, but they'd have to come from different mods (and thus wouldn't banter with each other) as AFAIK there are no single mods with multiple companions.

 

Thanks. I'll pass on it for now then.

[NiGHTMARE]

Avenger: ah, but the same article states:

 

"However, RPGs that use this style of combat system but give equal focus to non-combat elements such as non-player character interaction and character development (such as The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion) are instead referred to as computer role-playing games."

 

(Incidentally, I personally would consider Oblivion to be an action RPG as IMHO it has far more combat than non-combat .)

 

And believe it or not, it's possible to have a turn-based game which requires quick action and reflexes. In most turn-based games your turn lasts until you click the next turn button or press the appropriate key, but in some each turn only provides a set amount of time for you to act. This is the case in the Eye of the Beholder games, where you have to quickly click the attack buttons for each character in the party before your turn ends; I believe EOB III (or perhaps it was II) added an "all attack" button that alleviated this somewhat.

 

EDIT: Of course, this is also the case in the Final Fantasy games (at least, the later ones; IX was the first I played).

[jester]

That is why, when turn-based finally returns, the slow will conquer the earth. Yay! Perhaps the modder base isn't strong enough or the platform too resilient, but NPCs in Morrowind don't sound too appealing.

 

Now please carry on. ^_^

[Avenger]

I didn't claim that there are games which are harder to classify, like eye of the beholder.

But the status of EOB hardly affects the status of the Witcher, as the Witcher is more twitch based.

EOB is a linear dungeon crawl with some platform (arcade) elements.

[Skandrae]

Look, here's the definitive interpretation of what an RPG is: it must have a mimic in it. If it does not have at least one treasure chest/item box shaped enemy, it is not an RPG. End of discussion, no?

[KIrving]

I believe you can have more than one companion, but they'd have to come from different mods (and thus wouldn't banter with each other) as AFAIK there are no single mods with multiple companions.

 

Thanks. I'll pass on it for now then.

 

Yeah, even with mods, Morrowind feels intrinsicly single player based and action rather than dialogue heavy. I think managing multiple companions would be a major headache. Also, interactions with npcs, even in the original game, feel clunky and static. Sometimes it feels like the weather is the most dynamic aspect of the game, although it seems to have only two seasons.

Ah...I miss Daggerfall with its many seasons and more interesting story and gameplay, even some of its bugs were fun.

(You couldn't have companions in Daggerfall either but at least it always felt like there was something to do.)

[BigRob]

Companions seem to be a real sticking point in a lot of games. Bioware still does the best of the games I've played recently, but they have stripped back parties (in KOTOR and JE anyway) and tend to have them comment back at the camp later on, rather than rely on real time and complex banters. Either that or make them appear out of nowhere to say their bit and vanish again.

 

I think it's because it does take a lot of extra time to come up with a full personality for an NPC and a lot of the time, game companies are hard pressed having the time just to get the "be nice" and "be evil" quest dialogues written before they get shoved out the door. NWN2 really showed that with the fact that after the first two or three, there was almost no development of any NPC. It could be also that a lot more testing is required to scale encounters for variable party sizes and compositions.

 

 

If the Witcher has got branching quest paths and multiple options, it at least has something to say for itself, even with a fixed protagonist and no party to speak of. Non-violent quest dialogue options are also something that tends to get cut in games these days, again presumably for the time-to-money ratio.

[Simbriant]

Well, I think developers have the reason for that as being this: A true villain would kill your grandmother, make slaves of children, eat babies without batting an eye, etc., etc. You get the idea. Not many people really want to play as that character type.

Not that this discussion is about villains or evil in games, but... that's both one of the most simplistic and silly views of either I've seen in a while, and it's just blatantly untrue.

 

Yea, it's a simple explanation because it was meant to be. I remember in the late 80s/early 90s someone made a video game where you basically ran a Nazi Concentration Camp and killed jews. It got banned everywhere.

 

There are just some villain archtypes that developers don't want to touch.

 

And as times change, so do people's views. Ten years ago they wouldn't have gotten away with making Manhunt or GTA2.

[Kulyok]

I just read on mail.ru that more than a million copies of the game has been sold. Ye gods.

 

I wonder if more games will be released using Aurora Engine(I know it's been improved and polished, but essentially it's still NWN1 engine). Curious.