Guest guest Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Ooh, if that is the solution, DavidW, then I'd surely love to see it implemented! I can't stand the summoning cap, and would love to see a problem-free way of removing it. I like there being a cap, personally. I tried removing it, it sucked - too much stuff to manage. Link to comment
aVENGER_(RR) Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Ooh, if that is the solution, DavidW, then I'd surely love to see it implemented! I can't stand the summoning cap, and would love to see a problem-free way of removing it. FYI, Sim's D0Tweak mod has a component which removes the summoning cap and properly handles all spells, items and scripts which affect summoned creatures. Link to comment
DavidW Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Ooh, if that is the solution, DavidW, then I'd surely love to see it implemented! I can't stand the summoning cap, and would love to see a problem-free way of removing it. FYI, Sim's D0Tweak mod has a component which removes the summoning cap and properly handles all spells, items and scripts which affect summoned creatures. Indeed; and the solution I quoted was copied straight from Sim. Link to comment
Guest Guest Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 So that D0Tweak component will work okay with SR? There's nothing to worry about? I suppose D0Tweak would need to be installed after SR, right? Link to comment
Jarno Mikkola Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 So that D0Tweak component will work okay with SR? There's nothing to worry about? I suppose D0Tweak would need to be installed after SR, right? But the problem with using the SR and D0Tweak is that it revert the spells back to the original spells... doesn't it? Link to comment
Shaitan Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 If it overwrites, I had the impression it didn't. Link to comment
Icendoan Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I can open ELWATG01.cre perfectly well. Icen Link to comment
Demivrgvs Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Summoning Cap So that D0Tweak component will work okay with SR? There's nothing to worry about? I suppose D0Tweak would need to be installed after SR, right?Yes, you should install the tweak after SR, and it shouldn't cause issues with Death as I've left Spell unchanged till now. I'm not sure about Death/Acid Fog, which no longer has a "kill summons" effect, if you try this out let me know! I'm not sure about removing the cap myself because I really don't think I can have balanced summons without the cap. How could the AI stop a horde of 10-15 elementals?! The only way would be to use a Death Spell, but it's quite easy to trick the AI to waist its Death Spell against a few summons and then call in all the others. And wht about encounters where opponents can't have a Death Spell? Memorize tons of summons, conjure them all and throw them to the enemy for a guaranteed easy victory, then rest (in this game you can rest as much as you wish without consequences unfortunately) and repeat the process. Water Elemental I can open ELWATG01.cre perfectly well.One of my installs probably has a "corrupted" .cre file. It seems to use a custom animation not listed by NI, which is good in case we do something about water elementals. Anyway my main issue remain, these creatures aren't worth a spell slot without their abilities, and their abilities can't be implemented. Link to comment
Guest Guest Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Demivrgvs, I won't be able to test the cap remover from D0Tweaks because I don't have my BG discs at the moment, sorry. Maybe someone else could take a quick look at it. It's never occurred to me to remove the cap then summon a huge load of creatures, thereby cheesing the enemy. I only want the cap removed so I don't get the error message that I've reached some artificial limit. Even with the cap removed I'd still only summon a reasonable amount of creatures to help me fight. No, cheesing the enemy isn't the reason why I don't like the cap. I would dearly like to see some sort of fully-compatible-with-SR (including Death/Acid Fog or whatever) cap remover (if D0Tweaks doesn't already provide such a thing). Were you to include such a thing in SR, it could surely be made optional. Like I said earlier, I think EasyTutu may already remove the cap, so going from that to BG2 with a cap will create the sort of inconsistency I hate. Link to comment
Jarno Mikkola Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Summoning CapSo that D0Tweak component will work okay with SR? There's nothing to worry about? I suppose D0Tweak would need to be installed after SR, right?Yes, you should install the tweak after SR, and it shouldn't cause issues with Death as I've left Spell unchanged till now. I'm not sure about Death/Acid Fog, which no longer has a "kill summons" effect, if you try this out let me know! I'm not sure about removing the cap myself because I really don't think I can have balanced summons without the cap. How could the AI stop a horde of 10-15 elementals?! The only way would be to use a Death Spell, but it's quite easy to trick the AI to waist its Death Spell against a few summons and then call in all the others. And what about encounters where opponents can't have a Death Spell? Memorize tons of summons, conjure them all and throw them to the enemy for a guaranteed easy victory, then rest (in this game you can rest as much as you wish without consequences unfortunately) and repeat the process. Well, my idea was that we don't remove the cap, we just change it to not effect the lesser creatures~Skeletons and Archers, Goblins, Ogres etc. But the max of 5 would still be on the Genies, Elementals etc. Major Allies. And the Cap of one would be on the Celestials. Now, if you want to use the summoned cap for the heavy hitters like Elementals, Invisible Stalkers, Genies etc. you most certainly can as I have no objections for that. And can you really cast 10 to 15 elementals? It takes quite much away from your powers... Link to comment
Ardanis Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 And the Cap of one would be on the Celestials.Yet you can summon an elemental prince at the same time. Whom I deem stronger than a deva. Bioware are bunch of lazy idiots and we have to clean the stuff after them. Brr... I'm unsure how to implement in a issue-free fashion the second cap, as celestials are hardcoded differently than generic summons, their resource name is the matter, like traps' projectiles. Princes are 'capped' in such a horrible way that it's better to remain untold. Link to comment
Icendoan Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 You can just change the race to Planetar and be done with it, which afaik, is the cap. Then it is one celestial/prince at a time. Icen Link to comment
Demivrgvs Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 And the Cap of one would be on the Celestials.Yet you can summon an elemental prince at the same time. Whom I deem stronger than a deva. Bioware are bunch of lazy idiots and we have to clean the stuff after them. Brr...It's slightly unfair as it advantages a party with both a cleric and a druid but I think that making an elemental prince unsummonable because a celestial being is around is quite immersion breaking, am I wrong? That being said, the cap itself on summons is wrong from a roleplaying point of view, and surely immersion breaking, but its balancing feactor imo is necessary. The cap on celestials is a different matter imo, and most DMs would probably justify it somehow even in PnP games. Celestials aren't under caster's control, they simply help him if the cause interest them, and may decide to not respond the call if another celestial is already there for the same cause. Regarding elemental princes being stronger than devas...I'm really not sure it's so easy to say. Elemental Prince of Air/Earth/Fire advantages: * more hit points (not really in the case of the air prince) * better thac0 (+6 for the earth prince, +3 for the other two) * +2 attacks per round for the air prince, "only" +1 for the other two * more damaging attacks (not really in the case of the air prince) * higher physical resistances (especially the earth prince) * blade barrier/stoneskin effect/fire shield Deva's advantages: * disrupting attack (though its usefulness is limited it's quite a good effect when fighting undead creatures) * stunning attack (as effective as Celestial Fury's one) * better immunities (e.g. immunity to level drain, death effects, and even imprisonment) * better elemental resistances (especially compared to the earth prince), and +10% magic resistance * spellcasting abilities (and this is where comparing them became almost impossible. Heal effectively doubles hit points - Blade Barrier is like Chan's one except its dispellable, Draw Upon Holy Might can further increase combat abilities - True Seeing may come quite handy - and so on) I'd say elementals are quite stronger in melee, while devas are extremely more versatile. Surely elementals are much more easy to handle as they simply go straight in melee, but devas have slightly more potential imo. Link to comment
Ardanis Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 The main problem imo is that by the time you get to summon devas and princes five times on a day only the high level spellcasting really matters, rendering devas less useful than thick elemental tanks. In general, it comes down to my earlier statement that extra fighter is more useful in Tob than extra caster. You can just change the race to Planetar and be done with it, which afaik, is the cap.Not quite. You can have only one of plangood/planevil/devagood/devaevil.cre summoned at the time. Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.