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[Demivrgvs]

Raise Dead & Resurrection

Bringing closer to PnP.

The former can't raise elves, incurs semi-permanent -1 CON penalty. The latter has no such drawback, but perhaps doesn't heal fully.

Yes please. Yay for PnP

I've made mod like this long time ago. And YES for such a change!

Mmm...wouldn't it be a "must comment out on install" change for most players? I don't see how making elves immune to it would benefit the gameplay. By the way, even half orc are not affected by it within AD&D. The CON penalty seems permanent, why do you say semi? The manual actually says that character's starting CON indicates the maximum amount of times he/she can be raised from dead. I suppose this was just a way to avoid the easy spamming of this spell, and conceptually I may agree (raising dead should have been limited to temples imo), but adding limitis or permanent penalties seems more an invite to not use the spell at all rather than an interesting tweak. Am I missing something?

 

P.S I forgot Slay Living is supposed to be the reverse of this spell...

[Dermit]

I'd use it. It was sort of like that in IWD, and I didn't much mind. Making the CON penalty permanent would make that spell a never cast though. STR and CON penalty lasting at least a day a la Harpers call would make sense, as the PNP Con resurrection limit can't be modeled.

[Ardanis]

I know about the only NPC elves being clerics themselves. Blame Bioware for that

 

Regarding CON penalty, yes, I meant long-lasting (say, 5-10 days) but not permanent, as, since you can just reload, the latter would automatically label the thing as 'DNUT'.

[Salk]

I would definitely go for Ardanis' suggestion but I would limit the penalty to Constitution to a single day.

[yarpen]

There is a complete difference between what was written in PnP and what you're suggesting. We should see a difference between:

a) limiting how many times character can be resurrected

b) granting penalties from being dead

 

Your solution isn't doing any of those. -1 Penalty to Constitution isn't any sort of penalty to be honest. I think it'd be much better to see normal Raise Dead working as Harper's Call, granting some serious penalties (-4 to all physical attributes) so character which was raised should feel that "hey, you were dead!". I'd personally prefer pernament penalty to Constitution, which is adding more depth into game - but if you don't like it...

[Jarno Mikkola]

Your solution isn't doing any of those. -1 Penalty to Constitution isn't any sort of penalty to be honest.

Ouh, so removing the 10 hit point from Imoen is "nothing" in your book. Especially, when you have spells that instantly kill anyone with less than x amount of hitpoints, and the enemy mages know exactly when your characters have the exact amount...

[yarpen]

Well, it's compareable to Jesus's miracles so.... xD

[Jarno Mikkola]

Well, it's comparable to Jesus's miracles so.... xD

Is it ? I haven't seen any of clerics of the Judah-Cristian Churches heal a simple flesh wound with their faith... really heal it, so I was wondering what kind of real todays expert this Jesus guy was?

[yarpen]

As far as I know he was doing stuff like this. ^^' Well, sorry for stupid argument. But I just don't like the fact that Raising Dead is so... easy. And mechanical. "oh, they died - c'mon, get up get up'. Then please tell me why bad guys cannot be ressurected? -,- I'd love to see some mechanics which are going to make it "lesser evil" - and well, making death of character greater factor and tragedy.

[Demivrgvs]

As far as I know he was doing stuff like this. ^^' Well, sorry for stupid argument. But I just don't like the fact that Raising Dead is so... easy. And mechanical. "oh, they died - c'mon, get up get up'. Then please tell me why bad guys cannot be ressurected? -,- I'd love to see some mechanics which are going to make it "lesser evil" - and well, making death of character greater factor and tragedy.

I'm with you on this, in fact I said I would have limited Raise Dead to temples, and kept it rare and "complicated". I myself almost never used Raise Dead in any of my games (I tend to reload after the battle is over, even if I win), and I do appreciate those so brave to seriously play a "no reload" game...but this is D&D, and more precisely BG, thus we can't make Raise Dead almost unusable, it's out of SR's scope imo.

 

When it comes to add a temporary CON penalty, I may agree with it. I suppose it's there to make sure that without a full rest you can't be resurrected 10 times in a row without problems, right? Still, it's a roleplaying feature that I fear many players may end up hating.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Demivrgvs

[Jarno Mikkola]

As far as I know he was doing stuff like this. ^^' Well, sorry for stupid argument. But I just don't like the fact that Raising Dead is so... easy. And mechanical. "oh, they died - c'mon, get up get up'. Then please tell me why bad guys cannot be ressurected? -,- I'd love to see some mechanics which are going to make it "lesser evil" - and well, making death of character greater factor and tragedy.

Well, it's not exactly a flip of the fingers and the man rises again, as the death needs to only touch the character, not rip it's hearth out(<10 damage points).

In BG2, the bad guys loose their divine essence(the Bhaal Spawns) when they die, just like the main character(or you play with the Ascension mod/BP). The rest usually are ill-equipped to resurrect the legions of followers they need to re-challenge the player, and Sarevok took his road... of course one could make a mod that would center on the resurrected enemies coming back to haunt the player in masses, which leads to yet another bad guy, a Priest of Iyachtu Xvim for example, for he is unhappy when you killed his tyrants.

[Dakk]

Raise Dead & Resurrection

Bringing closer to PnP.

The former can't raise elves, incurs semi-permanent -1 CON penalty. The latter has no such drawback, but perhaps doesn't heal fully.

Yes please. Yay for PnP

Indeed!

[Dermit]

When it comes to add a temporary CON penalty, I may agree with it. I suppose it's there to make sure that without a full rest you can't be resurrected 10 times in a row without problems, right? Still, it's a roleplaying feature that I fear many players may end up hating.

 

Perhaps, but I would imagine most of the remaining BG players have some tolerance for RP

[Aranthys]

When it comes to add a temporary CON penalty, I may agree with it. I suppose it's there to make sure that without a full rest you can't be resurrected 10 times in a row without problems, right? Still, it's a roleplaying feature that I fear many players may end up hating.

 

Perhaps, but I would imagine most of the remaining BG players have some tolerance for RP

Well, not when it's just a big nerf to an ability without any point beside "It was meant to be this way in the PnP handbook !".

 

Most people reload when they lose a character since it's already a pain in the ass to have to loot all your equip again, then to have to heal the character, & so on.

Now, unless you like RPing, nobody would use the spell, ever.

 

(Well, unless you're talking about a temporary CON malus, and not a permanent / un-rezable elves spell )

 

Still, these spells are not appealing at all at the moment. You only memorize them when

A) You're roleplaying

OR

B) Have no other option.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Aranthys

[yarpen]

Then I'll tell you that there are people who don't reload game and just deal with the fact that part of their team is dead. ;]