SR V3

[Kalindor]

Mirror Image

I'm for keeping it 3+1/lvl.

I second this. The AoE protection of Mirror Image does negate some high-level spells, but it is absolutely torn to shreds by magic missile and fighter characters (provided you don't have PFMW or the like or a freakishly low wizard AC). Being illusion, it is also stupidly easy to dispel using True Seeing. My only concern with it was the level-scaling issue, which it sounds like you have addressed.

[Demivrgvs]

Mirror Image

I'm for keeping it 3+1/lvl.

I second this. The AoE protection of Mirror Image does negate some high-level spells, but it is absolutely torn to shreds by magic missile and fighter characters (provided you don't have PFMW or the like or a freakishly low wizard AC). Being illusion, it is also stupidly easy to dispel using True Seeing. My only concern with it was the level-scaling issue, which it sounds like you have addressed.

You know what, I was going to accept it as most of you prefer it, but now you're even convincing me. A simple Detect Illusion spell is enough to dispel it together with Blur and II, and True Seeing make it completely useless for the whole fight.

 

My other concern was that at the same level there's Blur, which imo is far from being as appealing as MI (I do prefer 3rd edition version of blur but we can't implement it). Blur can be quite effective if the caster can reach an extremely low AC (which is rare, though a Blade can make good use of it), and it can be a great complement to MI itself, but on its own it's not that great imo. Anyway I don't think we're going to change blur, am I wrong?

[Ardanis]

Anyway I don't think we're going to change blur, am I wrong?

Ain't

[yarpen]

Jarno

I know that technically there are 0 of them. But you've got Transmuter Rukh at Firkrag's place. And why not some bandit wizard could be a non-experienced transmuter. There are many wizards in BG2 and I don't think that everyone have to be generalist.

 

Also I didn't mean that DavidW removed them. I cannot find a quote, but his mod is giving few selections of spells to random wizards, and there are no selections for transmuters (they don't have abjuration - they suck) and diviners (they just suck).

That's nice code! ;-)

[Jarno Mikkola]

I know that technically there are 0 of them. But you've got Transmuter Rukh at Firkrag's place. And why not some bandit wizard could be a non-experienced transmuter. There are many wizards in BG2 and I don't think that everyone have to be generalist.

Yeah, I know of Rukh, but as he isn't technically kitted as transmuter, he his just another generalist. And the only spells it actually uses is two different cloud spells, and then attacks, not very vice for a Rakshasa... and from which the name comes from, as he transmutates his shape.

 

Also I didn't mean that DavidW removed them. I cannot find a quote, but his mod is giving few selections of spells to random wizards, and there are no selections for transmuters (they don't have abjuration - they suck) and diviners (they just suck).

That's nice code!

Yes, the code I made from scratch is nice indeed as it gives results...

And I know what you meant, but as the transmuters need special care to be selected, so their script fits the environment, it's hard to generalize. OK, in SCS1 it might be easier as no player is immune to everything for the first 5 levels, but from there on out, it begins to be harder and harder.

[Demivrgvs]

Let's go with the summons I'm working on.

 

Monster Summoning I/II/III

I have a few doubts regarding the spell progression tables. I do think Hobgoblin Shaman at 12th is fine, and the flind probably don't create any issue, but is the ogre mage too powerful at that level? (P.S just as a reminder berserker ogres have a proper enrage ability since V2.9, thus I do think MSIII is going to be a tough summoning spell)

 

Caster's Level -- MSI -- MSII -- MSIII

5th : 2 hobgoblins

7th : 3 hobgoblins -- 2 gnolls

9th : 4 hobgoblins -- 3 gnolls -- 2 ogres

12th : 4 hobgoblins + 1 hobgoblin shaman -- 3 gnolls + 1 gnoll captain -- 2 ogres + 1 ogre mage

 

Hobgoblin Shaman (4 Hit Dice):

STR 13, DEX 11, CON 15, INT 9, WIS 14, CHA 11; AL Lawful Evil

HP 36, AC 5, THAC0 16, Saving Throws 14/16/15/17/17

1 Attack Per Round, 1d8+2 Slashing Damage (Long Sword +1)

 

Memorized Spells:

1° Armor of Faith, Bless, Cure Light Wounds (x2), Resist Fear

2° Chant, Hold Person, Silence 15' Radius

 

I wanted a mace or a staff but they apparently can't be used because they display no animation. The spell selection is fine imo, and provides a good boost to other hobgoblins. I have tested the script a little, but I won't work on it too much if you don't mind (it does a decent job imo, though I never received much feedback on the current SR summoned creatures' AI) as I do think that a player who want a great performance from a spellcasting summon should disable the AI and control them manually (with SR all script can be turned on/off by pressing ctrl-E/ctrl-D with the cursor over the summon).

 

 

Gnoll Captain (5 Hit Dice):

STR 18, DEX 15, CON 16, INT 13, WIS 11, CHA 12; AL Chaotic Evil

HP 52, AC 3, THAC0 13, Saving Throws 13/15/14/16/16

2 Attacks Per Round, 1d10+5 Piercing Damage (Halberd +1)

 

This is quite simple, it's just a trained fighter, tougher, stronger, and better equipped than a regular gnoll. Is gnoll animation limited to halberds?

 

 

Ogre Mage (6 Hit Dice):

STR 18/00, DEX 10, CON 16, INT 14, WIS 12, CHA 11; AL Lawful Evil

HP 60, AC 3, THAC0 13, Saving Throws 11/13/12/13/14

1 Attack Per Round, 1d10+7 Slashing Damage (Bastard Sword or katana +1)

 

Special Qualities:

Regeneration: 1 hp/round

 

Memorized Spells:

1° Magic Missile x2, ...

2° Horror, ...

3° Dire Charm, ...

 

I still need two 1st level spells (one can probably be Shield), one 2nd level spell and a 3rd level one, any suggestion? I don't remember which spells are assigned to ogre mages with SCS (though I'm quite sure they have Horror).

[yarpen]

About gnolles: there are Flinds who are far stronger, got special ability of disarming and use two-handed swords. And I think they have unique animation.

[Salk]

I think your monster selection is balanced.

 

As first level spells, I'd suggest Shield and Blindness.

 

As second level spell, I'd suggest Mirror Image (which is actively used by Ogre Mages in the vanilla game together with Invisibility, iirc).

 

As third level spell, I'd suggest Slow.

[Guest Guest]

Will the spells the hobgoblin shaman casts affect the whole party? And if the party and the summoned hobgoblins are already under the effects of, say, Bless or Chant (because your priest just cast it), will the shaman detect this and cast intelligently rather than waste their Bless or Chant spell(s)? And will they ever cast Cure Light Wounds on your party, or only on the other hobgoblins?

 

Iif you cast a MS spell and the shaman or ogre mage spawns quite close to the enemy, will they retreat to a safe distance before they start casting?

 

Regarding Dire Charm, is the ogre mage likely to cast this spell at an enemy who's being attack by one of my party? I mean, if the enemy is Dire Charmed, and then my person hits them, won't the Charm be broken? If so, is Dire Charm likely to not be all that useful?

 

Salk's spell suggestions sound pretty good to me.

[Demivrgvs]

Monster Summoning spells

About gnolles: there are Flinds who are far stronger, got special ability of disarming and use two-handed swords. And I think they have unique animation.

Actually I had the flind in mind, I opted to name it Gnoll Captain ssimply because I don't know if a flind can be considered a gnoll leader. I'll try to discover it.

 

It would be great if there's a different animation, I'll look into it. I can't implement the disarm ability for various reasons.

 

I think your monster selection is balanced.

 

As first level spells, I'd suggest Shield and Blindness.

 

As second level spell, I'd suggest Mirror Image (which is actively used by Ogre Mages in the vanilla game together with Invisibility, iirc).

 

As third level spell, I'd suggest Slow.

Vanilla's ogre mages don't have MI in their memorized spell, but I do remember them using it, and in PnP they can use invisibility "at will". I may add the invisibility as a special ability, but I'd do that via script, similarly to nymph's Dimension Door.

 

I like the selection of spells and Blindness can be used as anti-mage/cleric spell just like the hobgoblin shaman currently use Silence. The shaman will prefer to use it against clerics though, as they don't have Vocalize, whereas Blindness is probably better against mages who don't have Cure Disease.

 

1) Will the spells the hobgoblin shaman casts affect the whole party? 2) And if the party and the summoned hobgoblins are already under the effects of, say, Bless or Chant (because your priest just cast it), will the shaman detect this and cast intelligently rather than waste their Bless or Chant spell(s)? 3) And will they ever cast Cure Light Wounds on your party, or only on the other hobgoblins?

 

4) Iif you cast a MS spell and the shaman or ogre mage spawns quite close to the enemy, will they retreat to a safe distance before they start casting?

 

5) Regarding Dire Charm, is the ogre mage likely to cast this spell at an enemy who's being attack by one of my party? I mean, if the enemy is Dire Charmed, and then my person hits them, won't the Charm be broken? If so, is Dire Charm likely to not be all that useful?

Oh my, haven't I just said that I'd like to not spend too much work/time on scripts?

 

That being said:

1) yes

2) mmm...I may add a state check for bless and chant, but the shaman will check himself (e.g. to see if he's already blessed) not the player's party members.

3) he won't cure your party unless you specifically told him to do so. On his own he'll use the cure light wounds spells to cure himself if his hp drops below 75%.

4) currently not, SCS mages have such a feature, and I could look into it, though I don't have SCS installed at the moment to look into it. Anyway, the shaman is a decent warrior, are we sure we want him to flee from combat?

5) it's impossible to script a creature to not target another creature who's going to be hit in the near future. I may simply leave the spell as last resort, so that the player will have all the time to manually select it.

[Guest Same guest as in post #69]

1 & 2) Okay

3) Okay, but I'd suppose I'd like him to use up his curative spells on party members before he's unsummoned, if possible. I suppose I find myself wondering, is the shaman there mainly to buff/benefit himself and his goblin followers or the party?

4) I was just thinking that close to the combat isn't an ideal place for someone who wants to cast spells, as there's a greater chance of spell interruption.

5) If the ogre mage is casting Dire Charm at targets I'm attacking, and the Charm is then broken soon after it takes effect, the ogre mage isn't going to be all that useful, I don't think. Isn't there a different spell that could be used instead of Dire Charm?

 

I was just wondering about some things when I posted my questions. I'm not trying to pester you to change things, but maybe there'll be time further down the road to make minor tweaks (provided you like the sound of said tweaks).

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

[Demivrgvs]

1 & 2) Okay

3) Okay, but I'd suppose I'd like him to use up his curative spells on party members before he's unsummoned, if possible. I suppose I find myself wondering, is the shaman there mainly to buff/benefit himself and his goblin followers or the party?

4) I was just thinking that close to the combat isn't an ideal place for someone who wants to cast spells, as there's a greater chance of spell interruption.

5) If the ogre mage is casting Dire Charm at targets I'm attacking, and the Charm is then broken soon after it takes effect, the ogre mage isn't going to be all that useful, I don't think. Isn't there a different spell that could be used instead of Dire Charm?

3) I did that for the nymph, I don't see the hobgoblin shaman as an "altruistic" creature, but I'll think about it. Anyway the shaman is there mainly to buff/support his goblin followers, not the party imo.

4) yeah, but clerics usually don't flee from combat imo.

5) This is true even for a charm spell used by the player (I experienced it myself a few times), and I don't think that the ogre mage is useless without this spell. That being said I simply selected it because charm is an ability used by ogre mages in PnP.

 

If you have in mind a better spell selection I'm open to suggestions. By better though I don't mean "more powerful", but more appropriate for the character and/or more interesting. I suppose alternatives for Dire Charm would probably be Haste (quite effective considering the two berserkers who follow him) or Vampiric Touch (very useful for a fighter/mage imo). I just don't know which spells seem more appropriate for an ogre mage, that's why I opted for those used in PnP or vanilla BG.

 

I was just wondering about some things when I posted my questions. I'm not trying to pester you to change things, but maybe there'll be time further down the road to make minor tweaks (provided you like the sound of said tweaks).

Scripts can be surely improved, I just don't want to spend days to refine them right now (I'm already late compared to when I would have liked to finish V3).

 

P.S. Improved scripts could be added later without the need to re-install SR.

 

P.P.S If there's anyone out there who wish to write himself scripts for SR creatures he's welcome.

[Guest Guest]

What about 2x Haste, 1x Slow (like Salk suggests) and 1x Vampiric Touch? I did wonder about giving him 1x Flame Arrow instead of an extra Haste, but I don't like the idea of a summon casting a spell this powerful. Am I right in thinking that the Haste spell will last 36 seconds? If so, could the ogre mage be scripted (or would he automatically do it anyway?) to cast the second Haste spell when the first one expires or is dispelled?

 

I'd really love to have the ogre mage intelligently cast his spells without any user intervention, if poss, and have him cast spells (ideally from a safe distance) as a primary action, and then fight melee only once he's used up most (if not all) of his spells, or if the enemy gets to within melee distance (so he won't run away from melee combat, but won't actively engage in it until his spells are used up). I'd like the hobgoblin shaman to act in the same way.

 

The above paragraph is written without knowing how the hobgoblin shaman and ogre mage currently work, so they may already act in this way. I suppose I'm just thinking what, in my opinion, would be the most effective way of using creatures like the hobgoblin shaman and ogre mage in combat. Considering they both have some decent spells, spells first then melee makes the most sense to me. I'd just hate to see them die without having had a chance to cast their spells first.

[Guest Guest]

You know, due to tiredness I've just realised that I stupidly thought you had 3x Dire Charms instead of one. Bah.

 

So I reckon skip Dire Charm completely, deffo go for Vampiric Touch, and then either Haste (preferable for me, as he could Haste the two berserkers, like you say) or Slow. Yeah, thinking about it, Vampiric Touch and Haste sounds great.

 

Now off to bed with me.

[Ardanis]

I did wonder about giving him 1x Flame Arrow instead of an extra Haste, but I don't like the idea of a summon casting a spell this powerful.

It's hardly powerful at 6th level, a single arrow of 4d6, save for half.