SR V3

[Salk]

Demi,

 

wouldn't the customized GMinion included in SR take care of the summoned creatures?

[Demivrgvs]

I'd really love to have the ogre mage intelligently cast his spells without any user intervention, if poss, and have him cast spells (ideally from a safe distance) as a primary action, and then fight melee only once he's used up most (if not all) of his spells, or if the enemy gets to within melee distance (so he won't run away from melee combat, but won't actively engage in it until his spells are used up). I'd like the hobgoblin shaman to act in the same way.

 

The above paragraph is written without knowing how the hobgoblin shaman and ogre mage currently work, so they may already act in this way. I suppose I'm just thinking what, in my opinion, would be the most effective way of using creatures like the hobgoblin shaman and ogre mage in combat. Considering they both have some decent spells, spells first then melee makes the most sense to me. I'd just hate to see them die without having had a chance to cast their spells first.

As of now they both prefer to cast spells and then run into combat, but they don't flee from combat if you summon them into the first line. The ogre mage has great stats (str 18/00) and a good regeneration rate, I really can't see him running away from combat.

 

I did wonder about giving him 1x Flame Arrow instead of an extra Haste, but I don't like the idea of a summon casting a spell this powerful.

It's hardly powerful at 6th level, a single arrow of 4d6, save for half.

Yeah. Having spells with a progression table instead of fixed effects allow some diversity (e.g. a Mummy Lord summoning Animate Dead won't summon a Skeleton Warrior!! ).

 

Demi,

 

wouldn't the customized GMinion included in SR take care of the summoned creatures?

No, simply because GMinion covered only few spells used by vanilla summons and I have to create custom scripts each time considering the much wider spell selection of SR summons. Anyway GMinion is a good template to help me.

 

If you've played previous versions of SR the scripts are more or less as those used by genies or nymphs, they do their work, but certainly they aren't as efficient as if used by the player, and they are not as refined as SCS's ones (e.g. I don't have checks for each and every immunity).

[Guest Guest]

Well, if Flame Arrow isn't too powerful, then how about it? I suppose I'd like to see (in total):

 

1° Blindness, Magic Missile x2, Shield

2° Horror, Mirror Image

3° Flame Arrow, Vampiric Touch

 

This gives us two spells that the ogre mage can use to protect himself (I imagine he'd cast both of these first), two to debilitate the enemy, and four to damage the enemy (plus Vampiric Touch has the added bonus of "buffing" the ogre mage as well). I really like the look of this spell selection!

 

I love my summons, so have a real interest in this aspect of Spell Revisions. I'll also be using the "Summoning Limit Removal" from D0Tweak (I promise not to abuse it) because the message you get about a summoning limit really breaks the immersion for me.

[Aranthys]

About luck going up to 15% :

It might be a bit too powerfull for a mage don't you think ?

It would grant a +3 to rolls and a -3 to saves to all of his ennemies for a whole turn, it's more powerfull than greater malyson.

How about keeping it at 5%, but making it last 2-3 turns instead ?

[Shaitan]

About luck going up to 15% :

It might be a bit too powerfull for a mage don't you think ?

It would grant a +3 to rolls and a -3 to saves to all of his ennemies for a whole turn, it's more powerfull than greater malyson.

How about keeping it at 5%, but making it last 2-3 turns instead ?

Sounds like a better solution IMO than 15%...

[Demivrgvs]

Sorry I would have liked to finish 99% of the work in the weekend but obviously my PC and I had a quarrel...I managed to make it work again a few hours ago. But before this issue I did a lot of work on summons as promised, and I'd like to discuss it with you as many things can be changed/improved with your help.

Luck

About luck going up to 15% :

It might be a bit too powerfull for a mage don't you think ?

It would grant a +3 to rolls and a -3 to saves to all of his ennemies for a whole turn, it's more powerfull than greater malyson.

How about keeping it at 5%, but making it last 2-3 turns instead ?

Sounds like a better solution IMO than 15%...

I have no problems to change it again but just to let you know I think many of you don't understand what luck does. A +3 bonus to luck doesn't affect enememies saves at all, it's a +3 bonus to saves for the character not a -3 penalty for his enemies. Anyway, a 15% luck bonus means +3 bonus to hit, damage and saves for 10 rounds plus +15% to each thieving skill and -1 damage from damage dealing spells. I can probably vote for restoring the 5% (which actually never changed for you ) and extend the duration to 5 turns, I just thought most of you voted for the shorter duration but I may be wrong.

 

Let's go with the summons with no particular order... I'll post full details in the first topic asap.

 

Monster Summoning I/II/III

I implemented and tested the three leaders and they work fine. I also played with the colors a bit to make them more noticeable: gnoll captain uses the color palette used by the gnoll chieftaf in BG1, and ogre mage uses the violet palette used in BG1 (though I actually don't like it too much, do you?). You can look them here.

 

Gnoll Captain can't have a two handed sword animation thus I'll give him a 1 handed sword.

 

 

Animate Dead

I've slightly modified the progression, at 12th level instead of 5 skeletons the spell casts two greater skeletons of 5HD which use a cool animation (similar to a skeleton warrior but less armored and somewhat shattered). Furthermore lesser skeletons now have 2HD instead of 3 for balance purposes, but from a gameplay point of view it only means they have 12hp less. I think this make the step from skeletons to skeleton warrior much more gradual. Skeleton warriors are still too powerful for a 3rd level spell, but I'll let them mostly untouched as they surely are a fan favourite (mine too ).

 

P.S lesser skeletons color has been changed again to finally match BG1 almost white color (I did something like that for V2.9 but it's even better now imo).

 

 

Animal SummoningI/II/III

I've added a feature to Dire Wolves, "Pack Hunter: gets +1 additional bonus to attack rolls for each allied wolf within 6 feet". Isn't it sweet?

 

Does any of you tested ASII and ASIII? If necessary I may add a feature or two. Leopards may get a rake ability (bleeding damage) or better a trip ability (knockdown for 1 round). Bears are already slightly too powerful imo, they were only two in previous versions but players reported them being too weak compared to elementals and asked for an additional one. If we add something like an "animal rage" feature I would have to lower their HD imo.

 

P.S Sooner or later (probably later) I may implement snakes and panthers.

 

 

Create Undead

I did quite much on this one. First of all this spell now is a 6th level spell (it "replaces" Summon Shadow) and is available to both mages and clerics. Ghast are still there but at 15th level instead of ghasts the spell now summons two 7HD mummies (the mummy rot ability is the only thing I still have to refine). At 18th level there's a very powerful greater mummy (mummy lord), a 10HD cleric mummy.

 

I'll post full stats asap, for now I just post here the current spell selection.

 

Greater Mummy Spells:

1° Armor of Faith (x2), Command (x2), Doom (x2)

2° Chant (x2), Hold Person (x2), Silence 15' Radius (x2)

3° Animate Dead, Invisibility Purge, Unholy Blight (x2)

4° Cloak of Fear, Poison

5° Greater Command, Slay Living

 

 

Summon Shadow

Summon Shadow is instead moved to 5th level and replaces the old Animate Dead. I'm planning to add at least a new creature, either a wraith or a specter, both only if necessary. They would be quite similar to shadows but the touch would be more powerful (e.g. specters would drain a level, and gain 5hp by doing that), and they would have 2-3 more HD.

 

 

Spider Spawn

I just discovered the Vortex Spider, but I'm not sure we need a forth upgrade for this spell. What I don't know is how effective the current spiders are, should we make this spell summon two spiders instead of one?

[Ardanis]

Anyway, a 15% luck bonus means +3 bonus to hit, damage and saves for 10 rounds plus +15% to each thieving skill and -1 damage from damage dealing spells.

I don't recall if it was discussed (as it was pretty long ago), but a thought has crawled into my head - maybe Greater Malison should utilitize luck penalty rather than just saves? I think it's vanilla description did mention something about luck.

 

Spider Spawn

IIRC Vortex ones can kill with a bite, unless target saves. Imo that's too much.

 

 

 

The rest I guess I have nothing to comment on.

[Shaitan]

Demi it looks just fine - and cool I should say

[DarkWon]

Summon Shadow

Summon Shadow is instead moved to 5th level and replaces the old Animate Dead. I'm planning to add at least a new creature, either a wraith or a specter, both only if necessary. They would be quite similar to shadows but the touch would be more powerful (e.g. specters would drain a level, and gain 5hp by doing that), and they would have 2-3 more HD.

 

I really love this spell, great to have some new options in the game! quite a bit stronger than Animate dead; or at least seems to be. No matter what I throw these guys at they don't seem to die. They survived a good 10 min battle vs Torgal...maybe the trolls don't have +1 claws? that and the 50% damage reduction means definitely locked in as a favourite!

 

Spider Spawn: played all the way through Tutu and never used it once. It just doesn't compare to the Summon Monster of equivalent level, roughly same hp and damage but only one creature

[yarpen]

In vanilla game Spider Spawn was far better spell than Summon Monster, but SR's monsters are hard to compare. Maybe an ability of minor web (on one target only) for all of the spiders? Sword Spiders are quite powefull thanks to their 5 attacks per round, but the rest?

[Demivrgvs]

Greater Malison

I don't recall if it was discussed (as it was pretty long ago), but a thought has crawled into my head - maybe Greater Malison should utilitize luck penalty rather than just saves? I think it's vanilla description did mention something about luck.

Conceptually it's not a bad idea, but I'd rather keep its PnP version as it's already very effective, and a penalty to attack and damage rolls is already applied by Doom and Emotion: Despair.

 

 

Spider Spawn

IIRC Vortex ones can kill with a bite, unless target saves. Imo that's too much.

Yeah, though they don't have such a powerful poison in PnP (they are improved invisible phase spiders with a web attack which slows targets). I do think sword spiders are more than enough for a 4th level spell, especially when we talk about two sword spiders (2 sword spider currently means 10 attacks per round, 2 of which with the chance to poison the victim!).

 

...played all the way through Tutu and never used it once. It just doesn't compare to the Summon Monster of equivalent level, roughly same hp and damage but only one creature

In vanilla game Spider Spawn was far better spell than Summon Monster, but SR's monsters are hard to compare. Maybe an ability of minor web (on one target only) for all of the spiders? Sword Spiders are quite powefull thanks to their 5 attacks per round, but the rest?

Well, in theory what should make spiders very effective is their immunity to mind affecting spells, and the nasty combo of web+spider spawn, not to mention their poison. Obviously if you simply throw a spider into battle it won't perform as well as two gnolls, and probably not even as well as a single gnoll (who doesn't have poison but deals twice as much damage on average and has +8hp, +2 better AC, +1 to thac0). I'd say spiders simply require much more strategy and need to be properly assisted, but perhaps they need to be a pair to withstand 2-4 gnolls (or something like yarpen suggests).

 

P.S Sword Spider will have 4 attacks in V3.

 

 

Summon Shadow

I really love this spell, great to have some new options in the game! quite a bit stronger than Animate dead; or at least seems to be. No matter what I throw these guys at they don't seem to die. They survived a good 10 min battle vs Torgal...maybe the trolls don't have +1 claws? that and the 50% damage reduction means definitely locked in as a favourite!

Trolls should have a +2 enchanted attack...anyway I'm glad you like it, and that they indeed perform as I hoped as some players reported them being too weak. Their incorporeal state (which within SR is translated into +4 to attack rolls, immunity to non-magical weapons and 50% physical damage resistance) is what makes them perform better than many may expect.

 

Speaking of V3 version of this spell, shadows will have 3HD instead of 4 but should remain more or less as effective and you'll get them at 9th caster level instead of at level 12. At 12th level instead I'm putting (right now) two wraiths, very similar creatures with 5HD and a more powerful attack which drains an entire level instead of a strength point, healing the wraith by 5hp in the process.

 

The only real doubt I have about these creatures is their draining attacks. In PnP there's no save against the effects (vanilla's shadows work this way), I just put it there to prevent it from being too powerful (as 10-15 successful attacks would mean certain death)...was I right or should I remove the save?

 

I though about implementing a specter (or spectre?) at 15th level, which more or less is a 7HD wraith who drains 2 levels instead of one, but I think I'll keep the spell "capped" at 12th level for now.

 

 

Various

Demi it looks just fine - and cool I should say

The rest I guess I have nothing to comment on.

Great, I'm quite satisfied myself. Animal Summoning II/III are the spells with more "unexpressed potential" imo...

[Jarno Mikkola]

...was I right or should I remove the save?

 

I though about implementing a specter (or spectre?) at 15th level, which more or less is a 7HD wraith who drains 2 levels instead of one, but I think I'll keep the spell "capped" at 12th level for now.

I think you should keep the save throw, so the bosses don't all get level drained... and you could cap the spell to the 20th level (17-20)where you introduce the Specter... like most of the other spells.

 

Vortex Spider

Were you ever able to implement the alteration to the Shadow Door spell? Cause this spider could use it, a lot... and it's not in the readme. Though it's here under Done...

 

Greater Malison... a penalty to attack and damage rolls is already applied by Doom and Emotion: Despair.

Yeah, but if we remove them from Doom.

[Ardanis]

Shadow Door

That reminds me. The Maze effect has proven to me to be quite annoying when SCS2's guys would pull over their twenty-in-a-row buffs. It took me quite amount of time to realize what was going on and why PC would suddenly end up mazed even when nobody had made a move yet. I'm not saying it really needs to be removed, but definitely something to think about when a chance slips.

[Demivrgvs]

Spider Spawn

Vortex Spider

Were you ever able to implement the alteration to the Shadow Door spell? Cause this spider could use it, a lot... and it's not in the readme. Though it's here under Done...

Vortex Spider doesn't have a shadow door (which yes, was Done for 2.9 ), and I generally prefer to avoid radical changes unless necessary. I'm not even sure a Vortex Spider would be more effective than a Sword Spider, actually after looking at it a little more I think the latter is a more threatening.

 

 

Shadow Door

That reminds me. The Maze effect has proven to me to be quite annoying when SCS2's guys would pull over their twenty-in-a-row buffs. It took me quite amount of time to realize what was going on and why PC would suddenly end up mazed even when nobody had made a move yet. I'm not saying it really needs to be removed, but definitely something to think about when a chance slips.

I don't understand, where's the problem? The spell now is extremely similar to its PnP version and I've made the new feature as weak as possible (small 5 feet radius AoE, last 1-4 rounds, allow a save). If you want to talk about this spell I'd say "better sooner than later".

 

 

Summon Shadow

...was I right or should I remove the save?

 

I though about implementing a specter (or spectre?) at 15th level, which more or less is a 7HD wraith who drains 2 levels instead of one, but I think I'll keep the spell "capped" at 12th level for now.

I think you should keep the save throw, so the bosses don't all get level drained... and you could cap the spell to the 20th level (17-20)where you introduce the Specter... like most of the other spells.

One vote for keeping the save than. Regarding the Specter I'll think about it.

 

 

Greater Malison

Greater Malison... a penalty to attack and damage rolls is already applied by Doom and Emotion: Despair.

Yeah, but if we remove them from Doom.

Why should we complicate our life with our own hands?

 

P.S Now that I think about it, Doom does exactly what Ardanis is suggesting for Greater Malison, as even if it doesn't use the luck opcode it effectively causes a -2 penalty to luck (-2 penalty to attack rolls, damage rolls and saves).

[Shaitan]

Shadow Door

That reminds me. The Maze effect has proven to me to be quite annoying when SCS2's guys would pull over their twenty-in-a-row buffs. It took me quite amount of time to realize what was going on and why PC would suddenly end up mazed even when nobody had made a move yet. I'm not saying it really needs to be removed, but definitely something to think about when a chance slips.

I don't understand, where's the problem? The spell now is extremely similar to its PnP version and I've made the new feature as weak as possible (small 5 feet radius AoE, last 1-4 rounds, allow a save). If you want to talk about this spell I'd say "better sooner than later".

 

I love this momentary Maze It adds more fun to especially BG1 (easytutu) games where suddenly all my fighters disappears. I'd would like the effect to stay put