SR V3

[Shaitan]

Strength of Stone

I've made it slightly more similar to its PnP version rather than an exact copy of mage's 2nd level spell Strength. It's not castable on other creatures anymore, and for the duration of the spell the subject is immune to everything, magical and otherwise, that pushes him away (e.g. wing buffets, gusts of wind, telekinesis, etc.), but moves at reduced speed.

 

Cool

 

Command

- creatures with equal or more HD than the caster are allowed a save (creatures with 20HD or more are always allowed to save against it)

 

I'd like this if I had to choose.

 

Power Word Sleep

PW: Sleep may cause 1 round of unconsciousness just like Command does, but without HD limits.

 

This sounds fine.

[Demivrgvs]

Command

- creatures with equal or more HD than the caster are allowed a save (creatures with 20HD or more are always allowed to save against it)

I'd like this if I had to choose.

Now I'm confused, I thought you were against it! What you quoted and "creatures with less HD than the caster are not allowed a save" are one and the same thing...

 

Power Word Sleep

PW: Sleep may cause 1 round of unconsciousness just like Command does, but without HD limits.

This sounds fine.

At least another "vote" and I'll do it in a second.

[Guest Guest]

No love for post #110?

[Demivrgvs]

No love for post #110?

I thought we discussed those things.

 

P.S Why are you still a guest?

 

 

BG1 NPCs innate abilities

Are these custom spells? Shouldn't Dynaheir's Slow Poison and Yeslick's Dispel Magic work the same as the SR versions of those spells?

Slow Poion and Dispel Magic should alredy be as per SR, the NPC version of Spiritual Hammer is not, but I suppose it's spin113.spl, thus I can easily modify it.

 

A full list of these NPC abilities would help me track them down.

 

Monster Summoning III

You were the one who first mentioned Vampiric Touch as a possibility, and I liked the sound of it. I hope it is implementable. Regarding what else to use, if we're looking to have "spells appropriate for him or his two followers" then I'd have thought that Haste would be better than Slow, since he can Haste himself and the two Berserkers. This is true regardless of whether or not Slow has already been cast by the party at the enemy i.e. Haste will always be useful, but Slow may not if it's already been cast.

 

And if I remember correctly, Haste lasts almost half as long as Slow, so even if the party casts Haste, having another one to casts (i.e. the ogre mage's) would be useful for a long fight.

The problem with Haste is that casted by the Ogre Mage it would last only 6 rounds, and its 5 rounds of fatigue may actually end up hurting the two ogres too much if the timing isn't perfect (enrage fatigue and haste one stack, causing -4 penalty to thac0, damage, and AC ).

 

Vampiric Touch at 6th level drain only 9 hit points. A player can cast it on a target already engaged by an ally, but scripting such a manouver is way beyond my skills.

 

Let's say it's fine for me to replace Dire Charm, even if these two options don't seem much better, but at least another SR player should "vote" for one of these two spells imo.

 

Spiritual Hammer

I think you meant "former" not "latter". If having it deal magic damage is going to cause issues, just stick with physical damage.

A problem for example is that magic damage would make it devastating against golems (while it shouldn't even affect them in theory, as in PnP Spiritual Weapons are affected by magic resistance), and almost useless against drows. Magic Damage would also make Spiritual Hammer the Anti-Mordenkainen's Sword spell, and a quite effective anti-stoneskin ranged weapon.

 

Conceptually, the best solution would be to do what aVENGER did for aTweak: making spiritual weapons (well, the "s" is because my internal KR's kitted priests have different weapons based on their deity a la Divine Remix) deal magic damage, but having them being affected by magic resistance.

 

From a gameplay point of view I really don't know what's best.

 

Alternatively, though it may require some time, I may be able to handle it in a completely different way. If the damage is applied via spell on hit, rather than directly by the weapon, I should be able to make it ignore magic resistance but still not affect golems. This would also allow me to have the spiritual weapon deal magic damage but still don't affect Mordenkainen's Sword, or any other thing we think it shouldn't be damaged by it. The same could be done for the Phantom Blade, whereas Shillelagh doesn't need it (it's an alteration spell rather than an evocation, the cudgel is real not "ethereal", and thus it deals physical damage and takes wielder's strength into account).

 

As always, the more I receive feedback the easiest it is for me to decide.

[DrAzTiK]

I would like also to speak about web level2. Even with -1 penality to save (instead of -2 in vanilla) I really think that this spell remain overpowed especially in minor sequencer...

 

I have played a full game in BG2 with less XP and I must admit I have exploited web in minor sequencer a lot... ( As I said on SCS II forums, you can immobilize all Irenicus minions in hell with only two sequeneur in one second). There is really only a very few number of ennemy immune to web. ( weak spiders and dragons). Even in TOB, web was one of the main key of my victory in many fights....

 

This sorts of spell really advantage players coz IA can't use this sorts of spell cleverly. (hopefully)

 

What do you think about reduce radius by 10 ?

[yarpen]

I think that large, strong or fire-based creatures should be immune, so dragons, giants, ettins, demons etc.

 

Or there is also a maybe more complex, but cool solution. Creatures with Strenght 20+ are immune to this spell. If your character is such a strong, he shouldn't have a trouble with little spidey construction ;-)

[Demivrgvs]

Web

I would like also to speak about web level2. Even with -1 penality to save (instead of -2 in vanilla) I really think that this spell remain overpowed especially in minor sequencer...

 

I have played a full game in BG2 with less XP and I must admit I have exploited web in minor sequencer a lot... ( As I said on SCS II forums, you can immobilize all Irenicus minions in hell with only two sequeneur in one second). There is really only a very few number of ennemy immune to web. ( weak spiders and dragons). Even in TOB, web was one of the main key of my victory in many fights....

Web should actually work like Entangle instead of Hold imo, but this would be a too radical change.

 

What do you think about reduce radius by 10?

Reducing its AoE from 30' to 20' radius is fine for me, though I'm not sure how much this would reduce its effectiveness.

 

I think that large, strong or fire-based creatures should be immune, so dragons, giants, ettins, demons etc.

I'm not sure about demons (a Baalor surely should be immune, but are we sure there aren't "weak" demons in BG which shouldn't be immune?), but making creatures like dragons and giants immune seems very appropriate.

 

If we go on this direction I'd actually go for a longer list:

- incorporeal creatures (e.g. shadows, wraith, ...)

- elementals (each for different reasons, as earth elementals are incredibly strong, air elementals are almost incorporeal, and fire elementals...well, they are made of fire)

- flying creatures (I'm not sure about this)

 

And if we want to go for the hard way, what about having Flame Blade and Fire Shield make the caster immune to Web?

 

Or there is also a maybe more complex, but cool solution. Creatures with Strenght 20+ are immune to this spell. If your character is such a strong, he shouldn't have a trouble with little spidey construction ;-)

Not doable.

[Icendoan]

Rangers have a save bonus vs all 'natural' type of effects?

 

Icen

[Ardanis]

Web

Reducing its AoE from 30' to 20' radius is fine for me, though I'm not sure how much this would reduce its effectiveness.

Honestly, I don't know if it isn't going to end up increasing the effectiveness. Myself, I step as close as possible to not get spotted by a dense group of mobs, throw 2-3 webs in, then step a bit forward and start shooting them to death. 20' would mean I can actually walk rather freely around, without having to balance on the spot to avoid getting webbed as well.

 

If we go on this direction I'd actually go for a longer list:

- incorporeal creatures (e.g. shadows, wraith, ...)

- elementals (each for different reasons, as earth elementals are incredibly strong, air elementals are almost incorporeal, and fire elementals...well, they are made of fire)

- flying creatures (I'm not sure about this)

 

And if we want to go for the hard way, what about having Flame Blade and Fire Shield make the caster immune to Web?

*Nod*

[DarkWon]

And if we want to go for the hard way, what about having Flame Blade and Fire Shield make the caster immune to Web?

 

Flame blade...yeah i guess, but then where do you draw the line? shouldn't then flaming swords help you escape too? or vorpal swords, or any +5 sword for that matter. Fire shield, Blade barrier etc are a definaite yes though

[Demivrgvs]

Web

Reducing its AoE from 30' to 20' radius is fine for me, though I'm not sure how much this would reduce its effectiveness.

Honestly, I don't know if it isn't going to end up increasing the effectiveness. Myself, I step as close as possible to not get spotted by a dense group of mobs, throw 2-3 webs in, then step a bit forward and start shooting them to death. 20' would mean I can actually walk rather freely around, without having to balance on the spot to avoid getting webbed as well.

You do have a point, and now that you mention it it's why I also consider SR Grease 10' radius an advantage.

 

And if we want to go for the hard way, what about having Flame Blade and Fire Shield make the caster immune to Web?

Flame blade...yeah i guess, but then where do you draw the line? shouldn't then flaming swords help you escape too? or vorpal swords, or any +5 sword for that matter. Fire shield, Blade barrier etc are a definaite yes though.

Yeah, introducing such things may starts debates such as this (though actually only fire is effective against these magical webs in PnP, a plain +5 sword is completely useless against them). We can stick with the creatures immunities on which we all agree.

 

 

Righteous Magic

Within "Magic of Faerun" manual the spell which is most similar to this is Righteous Fury, a 3rd level Paladin spell. The spell channels the power of good and law (which reminds me this spell shouldn't be usable by evil aligned clerics just like good aligned ones shouldn't be able to use Animate Dead ), charging the caster with Positive Energy and granting the following bonuses:

a) +2 bonus to STR and DEX, +2 to natural armor class

b) +1d4 additional hit points per level (max 10d4)

c) undead creatures who hit the caster suffer 1 point of damage

 

I do like the concept of tying this spell to good, law and positive energy, the general idea I have is the following:

a) +4 STR, +2 to armor class. I'd personally leave out DEX which is already affected by DUHM and Champion's Strength.

b) the current +1hp/lvl (up to +20) is fine imo

c) I like this concept, do you? If we go with this I'd raise the damage (not too much though), and I'd allow a save. Should demons be affected too?

d) what about replacing "Max Damage" (which is exploitable by cleric/thieves with a far from righteous uber-backstab) with +1d6 magic damage on hit? I think it suits the Positive Energy concept (a la Holy Smite), and it can make this spell much more unique. We may have this damage affect only evil creatures, though this would only be for perfectionists.

 

P.S Yarpen, regarding d), sorry for not having noticed this suggestion of yours before.

[DrAzTiK]

Web should actually work like Entangle instead of Hold imo, but this would be a too radical change

 

Are you sure ? Entangle should be really more balanced imo for a level 2 spell...

[yarpen]

I really like this Righteous Fury, far better than never-used Righteous Magic (and this stupid name. Removing max-damage is fine, because for normal characters isn't a very good boost (this additional 1-6 damages is far better) and is great/exploitable for uber-power-gamers.

 

I've always thought that incorporeal/elemental/flying creatures are already immune, but if not then yes, that's necessary. I think that immunity to web, which is rare, could be added to few fire-based spells. Somere-damaging spells (fireball, burning hands but not for example fire arrow/angazzars schorcher) could be dispeling web on characters (hey, these spells burn A LOT - so why web). Also spells like a fireshield (but only red?) or this high level aura should grant complete immunity.

 

Yes, I love this enviromental with first example of Glitterdust making you immune to invisibility. I think that Spell Revision should go far further and give to player many unique, and interesting options even when using weak spells. I was always thinking about system of "combos" in BG2 magic. For example when you cast on enemy cold-based spell, for next 2 rounds he have -40% fire resistance, so if you then use fire, it would be far more accurate. I think that also elements should go for a bit of revision:

 

Fire: is the strongest element and usually deal decent amount of damage to enemies. Also most of spells give to enemies terrible pain which grants -2 to thaco/AC/saving throws for next 3 rounds. Also there is 10% chance for pernament charisma penalty, -1. Fire can remove many of organic-based spells such as Entangle or Web. Also it's very good against all cold-based and organic opponents but has no effect on constructs.

Powerfull detonation such as fireball can stun or throw away weaker opponents.

Example of spells: burning hands, fireball, angazzar's schorcher.

 

Cold: deals not so much damage but has few interesting effects. More powerfull cold-spells usually slows enemies, but also there is a bit of chance for freeze death (3%?). Ice can also make people shake from cold, which works as hold for a round. At last, creatures strucked by cold spell for next 2 rounds are more vurnelable for fire, which gives them -40 penalty to fire resistance.

 

Acid: acid usually works a bit different, rarely it deals a lot of damage at-once, but easily sticks to skin and deal damage for few next rounds. Also it usually extremaly boosts a corrosion and raise vurnelability of characters. For the duration of the spell it decreases all physical resistances by 10% and AC by 2. There is 10% of removing web/entangle.

 

Electricity: it's nearly as powerfull as fire, but damages are more random - can be very small, or can be far higher than these from flames. Electricity sometimes stuns strucked characters.

 

Uhm, dunno, probably ideas are stupid or already included, but maybe something could be a nice add to game. Also, if someone have good ideas for new elementals use - that would be cool to post it.

[Salk]

Haste & Slow

 

...

 

c) we may even decide we don't care if Haste and slow perfectly counter each other leaving us a little more free to do what we wish with each spell.

 

Go for this one. A single-targeting Haste spell is pure blasphemy. I like the fact that they counter each other but for gameplay's sake it's very possible to have the two spells not be exactly simmetric.

[mercurier]

I've always thought that incorporeal/elemental/flying creatures are already immune, but if not then yes, that's necessary. I think that immunity to web, which is rare, could be added to few fire-based spells. Somere-damaging spells (fireball, burning hands but not for example fire arrow/angazzars schorcher) could be dispeling web on characters (hey, these spells burn A LOT - so why web). Also spells like a fireshield (but only red?) or this high level aura should grant complete immunity.

I also love this idea. Moreover, I think AoE fire spells (burning hand, (delayed) fireball, incendiary cloud, meteor swam) shoud be able to completely erase web effect from the area (they did so in ToEE, if I remember right).

Fire: is the strongest element and usually deal decent amount of damage to enemies. Also most of spells give to enemies terrible pain which grants -2 to thaco/AC/saving throws for next 3 rounds. Also there is 10% chance for pernament charisma penalty, -1. Fire can remove many of organic-based spells such as Entangle or Web. Also it's very good against all cold-based and organic opponents but has no effect on constructs.

Powerfull detonation such as fireball can stun or throw away weaker opponents.

Example of spells: burning hands, fireball, angazzar's schorcher.

 

Cold: deals not so much damage but has few interesting effects. More powerfull cold-spells usually slows enemies, but also there is a bit of chance for freeze death (3%?). Ice can also make people shake from cold, which works as hold for a round. At last, creatures strucked by cold spell for next 2 rounds are more vurnelable for fire, which gives them -40 penalty to fire resistance.

These reminds me of HoMM V... Honestly saying they are all good ideas; however, personally I'd prefer to stick to PnP . How others think?

Electricity: it's nearly as powerfull as fire, but damages are more random - can be very small, or can be far higher than these from flames. Electricity sometimes stuns strucked characters.

Diablo2?... I think the virtue of electricity is to wipe out a single oppenent with a devasting blow, while fire is to impair a large group of enemies. Fireball and lighting bolt serve as a good pair of example. As for the stuning effect: considering stun is the most powerful/dangerous state, I suggest making it rare and/or transient (maybe just a single sec), otherwise it would become an upgraded PW: stun.