IR V3 - List of changes from V2 to V3

[Ardanis]

Armor Physical Resistances

What I know for certain, I'll never install such thing again. Not the last reason here is the 100% res cap.

 

Also, as you've said yourself, there're 'hidden' AC bonuses.

 

 

That being said, while I wholeheartedly welcome any attempt to improve this old game, I'm in doubts if proper implementing of crushing weapons will cause any practical effect.

[DrAzTiK]

I think it could be nice for V3 to reduce at maximum the amount of items who give spells. As you have said Demivrgvs, it's a bit annoying to have fighters with a entire spellbook.

 

Imo, some of this items should be revisited a bit :

 

Ilbratha +1 : permanent reflected image while equiped instead of mirror image. (but maybe it's exploitable)

 

Dragonslayer +3 : aura of heroism instead of heroisme ability .

 

Girdle of Trollish Fortitude : equiped ability regeneration instead of special abilitie (2hp/turn ?)

 

 

Just another idea : maybe let Storm Star +3 deal only 1d4 elemental damage. (and 1d6 only when upgraded)

[DrAzTiK]

Another suggestion :

 

For balance purpose, I think that Strengh bonus should be forbidden for trowing axes and hammers. ( I mean only for the ranged version) Even if it should make sense to apply Str bonus, we must notice that is should also be same for sling and/or trowing dagger/dat but in fact Str bonus are not applied for these weapons.

 

Edit : I also propose to reduce range of these weapons. Actually, it is almost the same range that bow/crossbow.

[Salk]

I think it could be nice for V3 to reduce at maximum the amount of items who give spells. As you have said Demivrgvs, it's a bit annoying to have fighters with a entire spellbook.

 

I am in general against such revision. For the sake of variation in the game, a player should be allowed to have a party of only fighters and still have a chance to succeed.

 

Still your proposed changes look interesting enough.

[yarpen]

For balance purpose, I think that Strengh bonus should be forbidden for trowing axes and hammers. ( I mean only for the ranged version) Even if it should make sense to apply Str bonus, we must notice that is should also be same for sling and/or trowing dagger/dat but in fact Str bonus are not applied for these weapons.

Did you ever had a battle knife or axe in hands?

 

Edit : I also propose to reduce range of these weapons. Actually, it is almost the same range that bow/crossbow.

I do agree!

[Demivrgvs]

Ilbratha

permanent reflected image while equiped instead of mirror image. (but maybe it's exploitable)

It's an outstandingly powerful effect, and it's actually already granted by Cloak of Mirroring.

 

Dragonslayer

aura of heroism instead of heroisme ability.

Long story short, I cannot use aura-like effects on weapons.

 

Girdle of Trollish Fortitude

equiped ability regeneration instead of special abilitie (2hp/turn ?)

Well, no problem, but aren't there already too many items with regeneration?

 

Storm Star +3

deal only 1d4 elemental damage. (and 1d6 only when upgraded)

I don't think it would make a huge difference but I can do it.

 

 

Throwing weapons

For balance purpose, I think that Strengh bonus should be forbidden for trowing axes and hammers. ( I mean only for the ranged version) Even if it should make sense to apply Str bonus, we must notice that is should also be same for sling and/or trowing dagger/dat but in fact Str bonus are not applied for these weapons.

When you throw a heavy axe your strength does matter (a weak person cannot imprint as much force as a powerful barbarian) but when you throw a dagger it doesn't matter much because the weapon is very light, and the impact force (which is proportional to the weapon's weight and exponentially proportional to the speed you can imprint on the projectile) is somewhat limited.

 

I also propose to reduce range of these weapons. Actually, it is almost the same range that bow/crossbow.

Actually I already did that. Throwing axes/hammer/spears should have range 20 while bow/xbow have 30. Let me know if I missed some of them, I'll double check it when I find some time.

[kthxbye]

Throwing weapons

Actually, throwing daggers aren't that light and I think they should benefit from strength bonus as well (I did it with a component of my ktweaks mod). I have one, and I can assure you that if thrown with strength, the impact is a lot more strong than if thrown without giving it too much speed.

I think that, balance reasons aside, all throwing weapons (maybe with the exception of darts, that are indeed light) should grant strength bonus as well as slings. Crossbows and bows should have fixed damage bonuses and no strength bonus allowed, and require an adequate level of strength to be used - a bow which can shoot arrows with a lot of force is harder to use than a regular one.

Obviously I didn't take into account game balance, that's a thing I leave for more experienced players.

[Salk]

I also propose to reduce range of these weapons. Actually, it is almost the same range that bow/crossbow.

Actually I already did that. Throwing axes/hammer/spears should have range 20 while bow/xbow have 30. Let me know if I missed some of them, I'll double check it when I find some time.

 

Xbows and bows at 30 is fine. But 20 to axes, hammers, spears is too much, I think. Even if the distance covered by a thrown weapon depends naturally also on the strenght of the wielder, I would think that the range covered should really never be more than half of the bow's.

[Ardanis]

But 20 to axes, hammers, spears is too much, I think.

Conceptually, yes. Gameplay wise, 15 imo is way too short.

[Demivrgvs]

Throwing weapons

Actually, throwing daggers aren't that light and I think they should benefit from strength bonus as well (I did it with a component of my ktweaks mod). I have one, and I can assure you that if thrown with strength, the impact is a lot more strong than if thrown without giving it too much speed.

I think that, balance reasons aside, all throwing weapons (maybe with the exception of darts, that are indeed light) should grant strength bonus as well as slings. Crossbows and bows should have fixed damage bonuses and no strength bonus allowed, and require an adequate level of strength to be used - a bow which can shoot arrows with a lot of force is harder to use than a regular one.

Obviously I didn't take into account game balance, that's a thing I leave for more experienced players.

Balance wise, if we want throwing daggers to get strength bonus then we have to remove the 2 apr feature from them, else we end up with uber powerful throwing weapons.

 

I still prefer to keep daggers as they are, because else the difference between a throwing axe and a throwing dagger would only be that axes deal +1 to dmg, which is almost unnoticeable as soon as enchantments are applied.

 

Adding strength damage to slings seems a sensible suggestion too, but it may cause slings to become THE ranged weapon as they already have the noticeable advantage of being usable with a shield in the off hand (xbows don't allow a shield and have only +2/+3 dmg and +1 to hit within SR).

 

I'm indeed open to suggestions regarding this matter, and if a consensus is reached I'll go for it.

 

I also propose to reduce range of these weapons. Actually, it is almost the same range that bow/crossbow.

Actually I already did that. Throwing axes/hammer/spears should have range 20 while bow/xbow have 30. Let me know if I missed some of them, I'll double check it when I find some time.

Xbows and bows at 30 is fine. But 20 to axes, hammers, spears is too much, I think. Even if the distance covered by a thrown weapon depends naturally also on the strenght of the wielder, I would think that the range covered should really never be more than half of the bow's.

Conceptually, yes. Gameplay wise, 15 imo is way too short.

I agree with Ardanis. The issue imo is not that 20 is too much for throwing weapons, but that 30 is ridiculously low for ranged weapons (just imagine english longbowmen fighting french heavy cavalry 30 feet away ). Anyway, even if recent discoveries (visual range is now "moddable") should allow me to raise bow/xbow range over the LOS limit I don't think we should go for it for gameplay reasons.

[kthxbye]

Throwing weapons

In my ktweaks mod, I modified throwing daggers giving them 3 APR, strength bonus and a 1 point of THAC0 malus (it's difficult to hit with the bladed part of the weapon while the enemies are moving). Using the daggers modified in such a way doesn't seem to be unbalancing while playing with a blade, Imoen with a bow and Viconia with a sling: the blade hits less frequently, and throwing knives are literally a pain to find, to keep in inventory and they are really expensive. Anyway, I'm still testing this solution. If you like it, you can freely use it for IR.

If you think for balance reasons it's better to keep ranged weapons as they are now I support the decision, I'm not the best one to judge about balance and stuff, and you've already done a great job.

[DrAzTiK]

http://www.hiboox.fr/go/images/bebe/kirgan...a48ba8.jpg.html

 

Here you can see the difference. (korgan with trowing axe and charname with long bow vs yoshimo drinking an healing potion)

Imo, range should be a bit shorter...

 

 

Personally, I am really againt Str bonus for ranged version of melee weapons.(it's realist but not balanced at all) The fact to benefit from slots profeciencies for both melee and ranged version is already an HUGE advantage.

Futhermore it make slings really unnapealing.

[mercurier]

Strength bonus for ranged weapons

I prefer no str bonus for thrown weapons considering balance issue. And for slings, as Demi said, allowing using with shield is already a big advantage, and don't forget we have Sling of Seeking which does have str bonus.

 

Range of Ranged Weapon

I think short bow's range can be reduced to 25 according to long bow's description. This small tweak may make long bow a little more appealing, as its user might find herself safer in the battlefield. This tweak might help compensate the fact that there is no artifact-level long bow in BG2.

 

As for xbows, how about 25 for light versions and 30 for heavy versions?

[Ardanis]

Range of Ranged Weapon

Lets face it, a hasted character can reach our archer/thrower in a matter of 1-2 seconds, which means no shooting practice, should they decide to pay attention. Shortening range can only cripple shooters even beyond that. Frankly not a thing I'd wish to see happening.

 

Otoh, it's not always about keeping line aganst line and playing a naval battle from pre-carrier times, more often than not it's either 1-2 chars supporting tanks or the whole crew making a hedgehog out of a stuck enemy.

 

The main question is, which case needs more attention - taking enemies out before they reach the party (mainly relevant in BG1) or hedgehog making. I'd say the latter, but I have some doubts.

 

Hmm, does the following make sense?

 

heavy x/bows - >30

smaller ones - 24-25, as Mercurier says

axes - 20

daggers/darts - 15

 

All cons and pros accounted, it supposedly won't break known tactics alot, yet some more diversity ill appear.

[Salk]

heavy x/bows - >30

smaller ones - 24-25, as Mercurier says

axes - 20

daggers/darts - 15

 

Sounds good enough to me, though I'd push down axes together with daggers/darts.