IR V3 - List of changes from V2 to V3

[yarpen]

Demi, after my post you'll start to ignore me or hate me. That's my "few suggestions for items in IR V3"

 

Skin of the Ghoul: Don't you think that -4 ThaC0 and Damages penalty per round is a bit too drastic? Changing it into -2 would be appreciated.

 

Human Flesh: Maybe instead of +2 bonus to Saving Throws you can give to it +2 AC and ST bonus against good characters?

 

Thieves'Hood: What do you think about changing it's name into Aprentiance/Master Hood? To remove this "Improved" Or "Greater" instead?

 

Improved Helm of the Rock: "Greater"? "of the Stone"? Also, instead of Defensive Harmony it can have Mass Domination or War Cry effect.

 

Robes of X Resistance: Long time ago I've tried to convince you into changing them into Robes of Elements. Instead of having only a bonus to Resistance, they should grant you possibility of using some minor element spells. Shocking Grasp, Chilling Touch or Burning Hands. What do you think? Because now they're just useless.

 

Also what do you think about allowing using minor robes for monks/bards/clerics?

 

Robe of the Archmagi: Maybe it's time for making them a bit different. +2 bonus to AC and Saving Throws against opposite is the most common thing in this case.

 

Sentinel: This shield as one of the most powerfull in SoA beggs for something more than ridicolous acid resistance.

 

Shield of the Order: +1 to saving throws only? Should be something more.

 

Gargoyle Boots: what do you think about changing wearer's skin into stone-like which 'd result in SETTING wearer's slashing and piercing resistances on 25%, electricity resistance on 50% but giving -10% to blunt ones and -2 penalty to Dexterity? Or "Stone form" ability which makes you immune to slashing and piercing attacks but also immobilised and with combat penalties. Dunno.

 

Blade of Searing: "I'd like to find a more unique way to represent a "searing" effect" maybe blinding enemy for 1 round? (similiar to Sunschorch effect).

 

Mana Bow: any chance for Breach-like effect? (but maybe something like a removing one combat protection per hit).

 

Yamato: now thanks to Taimon's patch you can implement stoneskin-like effect of Parrying. It 'd be also cool in Gloves of Parrying (as addition to not-so-shiny +1 to AC).

 

Mace of Disruption: "I may add some illithium in the Underdark, to allow good parties (especially those with paladins) to roleplay Sir Sarles quest without losing this item."

 

Book of Infinite Spells: I think this item deserves a bit of improvement. Better selection of spells (remember: "PnP's Book of Infinite Spells also contains Divine Spells, which would allow the item to become incredibly interesting.")

 

Efreeti Bottle & Djiini Ring: Don't you think that effects of these items should be swapped? Djiini's are summoned from bottle (or they were in arabian stories).

 

Horn's and Harp's: what do you think about idea of... instead of boring special abilities, they should modify bard's song into effects similiar to these from special abilities.

 

Wand of Spellstrike: I beg you for making it usable by anyone with 15 Intelligence.

[Demivrgvs]

Demi, after my post you'll start to ignore me or hate me. That's my "few suggestions for items in IR V3"

Actually this is the kind of posts I need the most, because mor often than not discussing what to do is much more difficult/time expensive than implementing it.

 

Skin of the Ghoul

Don't you think that -4 ThaC0 and Damages penalty per round is a bit too drastic? Changing it into -2 would be appreciated.

There's no damage penalty actually and the penalty should be -2 to thac0 and saves but if you have SR installed you get SR's one because I'm dumb.

 

Let me know which solution you'd prefer:

- SR stench which causes -4 penalty to thaco and 20% spell failure (a lesser Stinking Cloud).

- AD&D ghast's stench causes only -2 penalty to thac0.

- 3rd edition one causes -2 penalty to thac0, damage and saves.

 

Human Flesh

Maybe instead of +2 bonus to Saving Throws you can give to it +2 AC and ST bonus against good characters?

Conceptually it make sense, but gameplay-wise it pratically means removing the bonus because you're going to fight like 3-4 good characters in the entire game even if you play evil (which is a real shame).

 

Thieves'Hood

What do you think about changing it's name into Aprentiance/Master Hood? To remove this "Improved" Or "Greater" instead?

I'm all for "custom" names instead of "impreved/greater".

 

Improved Helm of the Rock

"Greater"? "of the Stone"? Also, instead of Defensive Harmony it can have Mass Domination or War Cry effect.

They suggested me a cool name long time ago if I?m not wrong...I have to search a little within IR's topics.

 

Mass Charm/Domination would be a 8th-9th lvl spell thus I'm not sure (though Vhailor's helm already allow to use a 8th lvl spell), but War Cry is cool, it may make it a little more unique.

 

If Taimon ever fixes the 'repeating EFF' opcode I've no doubts about what I'd do with this item: permanent Aura of Fear + Aura of Courage.

 

Robes of X Resistance

Long time ago I've tried to convince you into changing them into Robes of Elements. Instead of having only a bonus to Resistance, they should grant you possibility of using some minor element spells. Shocking Grasp, Chilling Touch or Burning Hands. What do you think? Because now they're just useless.

Mmm, the concept is interesting. These robes have to remain rather "weak" (with no more than a +2/+3 enhancement bonus) because I think they are rather common, but I'm open to suggestions. Personally I don't like too much once/day abilities but it may be just me.

 

Also what do you think about allowing using minor robes for monks/bards/clerics?

I may agree on this. I'll let players decide, if you're the only one voting you'll easily win.

 

Robe of the Archmagi

Maybe it's time for making them a bit different. +2 bonus to AC and Saving Throws against opposite is the most common thing in this case.

Again, conceptually I agree, but in-game it would mean a huge advantage for good characters. Regarding the possibility to make them work in three slightly different ways I?m all for it if you have good suggestions.

 

Sentinel

This shield as one of the most powerfull in SoA beggs for something more than ridicolous acid resistance.

I know...I simply finished good ideas for shields.

 

Shield of the Order

+1 to saving throws only? Should be something more.

Same as above.

 

Gargoyle Boots

what do you think about changing wearer's skin into stone-like which 'd result in SETTING wearer's slashing and piercing resistances on 25%, electricity resistance on 50% but giving -10% to blunt ones and -2 penalty to Dexterity? Or "Stone form" ability which makes you immune to slashing and piercing attacks but also immobilised and with combat penalties. Dunno.

I planned to replace Stoneskin with a custom Stone Form (short duration, various resistances/immunities, high regeneration rate), but a more unique "while equipped ability" would be highly welcome.

 

Blade of Searing

"I'd like to find a more unique way to represent a "searing" effect" maybe blinding enemy for 1 round? (similiar to Sunschorch effect).

I was going to suggest a Sunscorch ability for the Daystar, but I must admit that Blade of Searing is surely less well developed than the Sunblade.

 

Mana Bow

Any chance for Breach-like effect? (but maybe something like a removing one combat protection per hit).

High chances, because I think it's clear I chosed this bow to be a Wizard Slayer weapon, and I wouldn't mind making it a very effective anti-mage weapon as long as you let me restrict to them. (you weren't asking for an easy Breach-like effect available to anyone, were you? )

 

Regarding the implementation, that's a bit problematic:

1. an 'on hit effect' wouldn't work against Mantle-like spells, at least not as you may think. You'd need a nonmagical arrow vs PfMW (against liches you're screwed), a +4 arrow against Mantle, and you'd be unable to tear down Improved Mantle and Absolute Immunity.

2. a once/day Breach may work just like the spell instead, though I hate that you'd be able to use it without wielding the bow.

 

If you ask me, I'd probably go for 1. (with either a save, or 1 protection on each hit) + 2, but I'd like to know players opinions.

 

Yamato

now thanks to Taimon's patch you can implement stoneskin-like effect of Parrying. It 'd be also cool in Gloves of Parrying (as addition to not-so-shiny +1 to AC).

Haven't we agreed on counter-attack feature? Anyway, thanks to Taimon I can implement the Parry ability as a fighter's ability for KR, or as a once/day ability, but not as a "while equipped" effect, for that I'd also need Taimon to fix the 'repeating EFF' opcode.

 

Mace of Disruption

"I may add some illithium in the Underdark, to allow good parties (especially those with paladins) to roleplay Sir Sarles quest without losing this item."

Thanks for reminding me this!

 

Book of Infinite Spells

I think this item deserves a bit of improvement. Better selection of spells (remember: "PnP's Book of Infinite Spells also contains Divine Spells, which would allow the item to become incredibly interesting.")

Yeah...

 

Efreeti Bottle & Djiini Ring

Don't you think that effects of these items should be swapped? Djiini's are summoned from bottle (or they were in arabian stories).

But the latter don't summon a Djinn anymore within IR, actually it does, but in the form of Limited Wish.

 

Horn's and Harp's

What do you think about idea of... instead of boring special abilities, they should modify bard's song into effects similiar to these from special abilities.

Eh eh, you read my mind. I'd welcome this, but that would require the items to be effectively equipped (using the off hand/shield slot). If players don't mind that I can try to work on it.

 

Wand of Spellstrike

I beg you for making it usable by anyone with 15 Intelligence.

Some players don't even liked the fact I've opened wands to thieves (as per PnP), and you know this sounds as "too convenient" to me. What's the point of having a mage or a wizard slayer in the party if a Berseker + this wand stole their anti-mage role?

[yarpen]

I know...I simply finished good ideas for shields.

- Absorbing attacks (stoneskin-like, but without hardcoded animation, thanks to Taimon)

- Turning attacks against enemies

- Rebound blunt damage with chance for stunning enemy for few seconds

These are few generic effects which 'd be just fine for Sentinel (of course when you remove this ridicolous BAM).

 

What about Shield of the Order: maybe Hold the Line effect, or Axiomatic (+2 to AC and saves vs. chaotic). Or because it's quite powerfull it can have Bastion ability which protects against mind-affecting and chaotic effects.

 

- SR stench which causes -4 penalty to thaco and 20% spell failure (a lesser Stinking Cloud).

- AD&D ghast's stench causes only -2 penalty to thac0.

SR's -4 to thaco is still a bit too much so my proposition is hybrid: -2 penalty to thaco and 20% spell failure (AD&D one is not unique enough... wizards... make them suffer, even from stench)

 

I planned to replace Stoneskin with a custom Stone Form (short duration, various resistances/immunities, high regeneration rate), but a more unique "while equipped ability" would be highly welcome.

There's idea!

 

Stone form: when wearer's HP goes below 25% he transforms into Stone Form which grants 100% immunity to slashing, piercing and elemental damage, 50% immunity to blunt and magic one. In this state wearers regenerates 2 hit point per second but he's immobilised, cannot move, cast spells, use special abilities or attack. Stone form lasts for 5 rounds. (it heals 60 hit points).

 

If you ask me, I'd probably go for 1. (with either a save, or 1 protection on each hit) + 2, but I'd like to know players opinions.

Don't like second option, it looks a bit stupid. Kheh, heh, so maybe phantom +4 arrows which are removing protections You know my hatred to magelings.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Robes of X Resistance

Also what do you think about allowing using minor robes for monks/bards/clerics?

I may agree on this. I'll let players decide, if you're the only one voting you'll easily win.

Well, you could always make a separate component for that, that everyone will always install.

 

Wand of Spellstrike

I beg you for making it usable by anyone with 15 Intelligence.

Some players don't even liked the fact I've opened wands to thieves (as per PnP), and you know this sounds as "too convenient" to me. What's the point of having a mage or a wizard slayer in the party if a Berseker + this wand stole their anti-mage role?

Well that's easy, they can do it all without ~10 charge limit, and free without this costly item, besides you can always restrict Bears and Barbarians from using this item.

 

Book of Infinite Spells

I think this item deserves a bit of improvement. Better selection of spells (remember: "PnP's Book of Infinite Spells also contains Divine Spells, which would allow the item to become incredibly interesting.")

Yeah...

In that case, why not just install this mod?

Yeah, it's a bit rough, but I intend to ImpRove it.

[SixOfSpades]

Mace of Disruption

"I may add some illithium in the Underdark, to allow good parties (especially those with paladins) to roleplay Sir Sarles quest without losing this item."

Just a pet peeve of mine that I happened to notice. What the game needs is not more illithium, but a tweak to the existing Cromwell (and possibly Sarles) dialogue and the illithium items. Currently Cromwell uses all TWO HUNDRED POUNDS of illithium to apply a thin coating to an EIGHT-POUND MACE, which isn't even any heavier after it's done.

[Wisp]

Mace of Disruption

"I may add some illithium in the Underdark, to allow good parties (especially those with paladins) to roleplay Sir Sarles quest without losing this item."

Currently Cromwell uses all TWO HUNDRED POUNDS of illithium to apply a thin coating to an EIGHT-POUND MACE, which isn't even any heavier after it's done.

It's all in the refinement process.

[Demivrgvs]

Sentinel

I know...I simply finished good ideas for shields.

1. Absorbing attacks (stoneskin-like, but without hardcoded animation, thanks to Taimon)

2. Turning attacks against enemies

3. Rebound blunt damage with chance for stunning enemy for few seconds

These are few generic effects which 'd be just fine for Sentinel (of course when you remove this ridicolous BAM).

1. and 2. are not doable, but a "shield bash" effect would be rather unique yes. I'm not sure it fits this shield's background but I'll try to use such idea.

 

Edit: I'd say I've very few choices, either this shield or Shield of the Lost, thus I'd go with this. The hard part would be trying to tie the ability to the description, but the name is ok imo.

 

Shield of the Order

...maybe Hold the Line effect, or Axiomatic (+2 to AC and saves vs. chaotic). Or because it's quite powerfull it can have Bastion ability which protects against mind-affecting and chaotic effects.

Yeah, these effects would be fine but are the same used by Dragonscale Shield and Pride of the Order. Considering how late it is found and that its background is perfect, I was staring to think if I can make it a sort of Shield of Prator (it's a PnP minor artifact also available in NWN2).

 

PnP Shield of Prator: +5 enchantment, magic resistance bonus, elemental damade resistance, allows wielder to cast spells as a paladin of 20th lvl

 

Shield of the Order: +4 enchantment, +5-10% magic resistance, +1 spell per level (1st to 4th lvl) to divine caster

 

Skin of the Ghoul

- SR stench which causes -4 penalty to thaco and 20% spell failure (a lesser Stinking Cloud).

- AD&D ghast's stench causes only -2 penalty to thac0.

SR's -4 to thaco is still a bit too much so my proposition is hybrid: -2 penalty to thaco and 20% spell failure (AD&D one is not unique enough... wizards... make them suffer, even from stench)

 

Gargoyle Boots

I planned to replace Stoneskin with a custom Stone Form (short duration, various resistances/immunities, high regeneration rate), but a more unique "while equipped ability" would be highly welcome.

Stone form: when wearer's HP goes below 25% he transforms into Stone Form which grants 100% immunity to slashing, piercing and elemental damage, 50% immunity to blunt and magic one. In this state wearers regenerates 2 hit point per second but he's immobilised, cannot move, cast spells, use special abilities or attack. Stone form lasts for 5 rounds. (it heals 60 hit points).

It's not so easy as it may seem (physical resistance and contincecy-like effects are both problematic) but I'll see what I can do.

 

Mana Bow

Kheh, heh, so maybe phantom +4 arrows which are removing protections You know my hatred to magelings.

Well, it wouldn't be as cool as you may think because it would powerless against PfMW, which is much more common than Mantle.

[Ardanis]

What about turning Sentinel shield to Helm's belief? While looking for something suitable to give Garlena in WK, I ran across this shield in UD, that didn't look at home there at all.

 

Give it immunity to charm or confusion, True Sight 1/d. Probably enough.

[yarpen]

Or maybe Immunity to backstab? Good point Ardanis, still, it needs refined BAM. Demi, if you'l find any PnP shield with image, maybe I'll be able to do this.

[Demivrgvs]

What about turning Sentinel shield to Helm's belief? While looking for something suitable to give Garlena in WK, I ran across this shield in UD, that didn't look at home there at all.

 

Give it immunity to charm or confusion, True Sight 1/d. Probably enough.

Mmm...I was planning too to move Sentinel away (and to replace it with a druid-related shield using a green version bam of IR's Dragonscale Shield). But while this change is questionable, and may not make it to v3, Sentinel's lore doesn't fit at all those abilities or a Watcher of Helm in general, not to mention that your suggested abilities are really too similar to Shield of Harmony ones.

 

Long story short...if you really need am item which may be related to Helm I'd suggest Fortress Shield.

 

I'll start to post all the planned (actually most of them are already implemented) changes this afternoon, and if you're going to discuss them a little with me I'm sure there are few more things like this that can be done within your component.

[Demivrgvs]

Let's start to list down the changes I've made starting with amulets. There are few things I'd like to discuss, but in most cases I'm pretty sure of what I've done.

 

 

Necklace of Missiles

I actually never realized IR never touched this almost useless item...any suggestion?

 

 

Shield Amulet

Now grants +2 bonus to AC.

 

 

Amulet of Spell Warding

It now grants +2 to all saves, while retaining v2's Spell Turning ability (once/day).

 

 

Greenstone Amulet

In PnP this amulet also grants a sort of Dimensional Anchor effect and a +4 bonus against necromantic effects. Though the latter effect isn't so interesting/unique, this amulet do needs a while equipped ability. What about adding immunity to Teleport Field, Maze (Mind Flayer's psionic version too) and Imprisonment (plus Shadow Door's dimensional trap room if SR is installed)? Would that be cool or not? Too much? Enough?

 

In 3rd edition Magic of Faerun book the Mind Shield effect is permanent (too powerful unless we move the amulet in ToB imo), but I actually prefer the AD&D version, where the protection can wear-off and slowly recharge itself. Thus I'd replace the x charges and then vanish system with a once/day usability, which also prevents the "exploit" of using a single amulet to protect the entire party.

 

Ardanis, I think this item is a perfect candidate to be included in your component. It currently lies there unguarded in the underdark's beholder lair (where you already find Amulet of Spell Warding).

 

 

Amulet of Power

I've come up with a solution I hope most of you will like. It's a sort of permanent IR's Potion of Power, granting +2 to THAC0, +20% hit points, and +2 caster level. Currently I've left out +2 damage and +20% to all thieving skills.

 

This is one of those items where I'd prefer a little feedback.

 

P.S Should I make these effects not stack with Potion of Power to prevent balance issues?

 

 

Amulet of Seldarine

My current version is quite different from v2's one:

* +1 to DEX and WIS (instead of +1 to WIS)

* +3 to saves vs death (instead of +1 to all saves)

* regenerate 1hp/round (instead of 10% magic resistance)

 

I'm quite open to suggestions here...just keep in mind this amulet must be useful to any class/kit, and that I prefer to have it not overshadows completely another amulet (that's why I removed the 10% mr in my game).

 

 

Amulet of Cheetah Speed

I've simply added the suggested +2 bonus to attack speed factor (I don't remember who suggested it right now, sorry).

 

 

Amulet of Master Harper

I've left it unchanged for now, but I was thinking to slightly change it, for example adding Non-detection and making it usable by bards once again.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Shield Amulet

Now grants +2 bonus to AC.

Hmm, what do you say, grand also the other ability from the shield spell, magic missile immunity?

 

Greenstone Amulet

...

In 3rd edition Magic of Faerun book the Mind Shield effect is permanent (too powerful unless we move the amulet in ToB imo), but I actually prefer the AD&D version, where the protection can wear-off and slowly recharge itself. Thus I'd replace the x charges and then vanish system with a once/day usability, which also prevents the "exploit" of using a single amulet to protect the entire party.

It wold be cool, but could you also make the item upgrade mod... and makes this amulet grand permanent effect in ToB with it?

 

Amulet of Power...

P.S Should I make these effects not stack with Potion of Power to prevent balance issues?

Where's my Negative Plane Protection, and my spells per level.

But yes, it should be non-stackable.

[Salk]

Necklace of Missiles

 

I would make it work in a similar fashion to SR's Flame Arrow (but with a fixed number spheres of energy instead of flame arrows).

 

 

Amulet of Power

 

I like your newer version although it is derivative of the potion with the same name. Speaking of which, it is inevitable to cause some confusion when you leave out some of the effects that the potion grants. Perhaps the best solution would be to share exactly all those effects, nerfing them down a little, if needed.

 

Greenstone Amulet

 

I'd like to see those extra defenses added as per your suggestion, Demi.

 

Amulet of Seldarine

 

Seems balanced enough the way you conceived it.

[Ardanis]

Greenstone Amulet

Moved it to drow spellmaster.

 

Are you sure about both Imrisonment and Maze (8th lvl spell)?

 

Amulet of Power

20% HP seems really too much. Imagine Korgan with it on

As Salk says, I'd cut bonuses in half and added thievery skills.

[Demivrgvs]

Necklace of Missiles

I would make it work in a similar fashion to SR's Flame Arrow (but with a fixed number spheres of energy instead of flame arrows).

It's not uber-quick to do, but it sounds fine. Anyway you know that my priority would actually be a "while equipped" ability.

 

 

Greenstone Amulet

I like what you did, but could you also make the item upgrade mod... and makes this amulet grand permanent effect in ToB with it?

An item upgrade-like component wasn't planned for v3, and I actually think it won't be within v4 either unless I suddenly find tons of free time (unlikely) and good ideas (it's already quite hard to handle all non-upgraded items).

 

Moved it to drow spellmaster.

Wow, there's a tough choice there between this amulet and Kaligun's Amulet of Magic Resistance!

 

Are you sure about both Imrisonment and Maze (8th lvl spell)?

Well, they are the very same opcode within SR or with bigg's tweak/fix. I could handle that via Protection from Spell opcodes...but conceptually I think it should either protect from both or none. If I had to choose between the two I'd probably leave out Imprisonment because immunity to a 9th lvl spell is quite impressive. Otoh I suppose players would prefer to keep it for convenience (even if I don't encourage soloers at all Imprisonment destroys their game), and it wouldn't be the first time a character can be "easily" protected against high level spells (e.g. Negative Plane Protection, Mace of Disruption, and Periapt of Life Protection grant immunity to Energy Drain; Death Ward and some items protect from Wail of the Banshee, and so on).

 

 

Amulet of Power

...it is inevitable to cause some confusion when you leave out some of the effects that the potion grants. Perhaps the best solution would be to share exactly all those effects, nerfing them down a little, if needed.

You do have a point.

 

20% HP seems really too much. Imagine Korgan with it on

As Salk says, I'd cut bonuses in half and added thievery skills.

Yeah, a fixed value or 10% would be better. About reducing bonuses by half, fine with me in theory, but +1 to caster level is almost unnoticeable imo.

 

I actually started to create custom eff files to make each class get different abilities exactly because I felt all at once was slightly too much but half wasn't so great...but those who cannot install the exe patch would have some issues (e.g. mages would get nothing at all).

 

Alternatively we may opt to make it enough different from Potion of Power to not make confusion between the two. The whole idea actually started like that, as my starting point was to use "caster level" opcode and then build an item around it.

 

Where's my Negative Plane Protection, and my spells per level.

Most players (at least those who posted feedback, but I can only base my choices on them) seemed to not like what I did with it, and considered the "spell per level" thing both unoriginal (tons of items do the same) and slightly overpowered.

 

Regarding Negative Plane Protection instead, it really never suited this amulet, while it fits Periapt of Life Protection incredibly well, and I think Ardanis is going to make it available to you.

 

 

Amulet of Seldarine

Seems balanced enough the way you conceived it.

No one else commented on this, so I'll assume that it's fine for them too...and I may also duduce that 'regeneration' is a outstandingly appealing effect considering no one complained about replacing '+10% magic resistance' with it.