IR V3 - List of changes from V2 to V3

[yarpen]

Shield Amulet

Now grants +2 bonus to AC.

What about adding additional +2 to AC vs. missles to make it different from Protection items +2? Also it should be moved from D'Arnise Prison - I've always thought that such a stuff should be placed in safe places, not in old prison, sounds just stupid. And in random chest - you can never check it when you're bored with checking all of them and spamming your equipment with bolts +1.

 

Greenstone Amulet

Dimensional Anchor should be the only one effect of this amulet. Powerfull and unique effect which is probably very helpfull for any adventurer. Should be placed in Underdark or later (because killing Kangaxx with it isn't so hard).

 

Amulet of Power

Personally I don't like this idea. It would be too powerfull - ThaC0, damages, spells, thieving abilities... it's too much for one item. And there's lack of being unique. We do love Item Revision because some items grants something really special. This amulet's special stuff was fact that when used with cleric/mage it granted 14 spells. For other spellcasters it wasn't so cool - great stuff, why to ruin that for potion-like effect which from one side is overpowered but it's also so generic and unsignificant that noone will use it?

 

Amulet of Seldarine

Regeneration effect doesn't fit to elves too much. What about making it really overpowered, heavy enchanted item. It's your reward for slaying Irenicus! I'm capable of accept this item as powerfull, destined for main character. What about effects?

- +1 boost to all of stats?

- maybe something class-based?

- it should be something connected with elves? magic, swordmanship, archers? dunno.

[Demivrgvs]

Shield Amulet

Hmm, what do you say, grand also the other ability from the shield spell, magic missile immunity?

What about adding additional +2 to AC vs. missles to make it different from Protection items +2? Also it should be moved from D'Arnise Prison - I've always thought that such a stuff should be placed in safe places, not in old prison, sounds just stupid. And in random chest - you can never check it when you're bored with checking all of them and spamming your equipment with bolts +1.

I've thought about making it work as a permanent SR's Shield spell, but this amulet is available in BG1 too, and there it's already powerful as it is imo. It's also slightly different than a Protection item, because it grants only AC bonus, but can stack with any other item, including a Protection item.

 

Regarding its allocation I'll let Ardanis decide, but if the amulet is moved I want at least a decen item in such chest (e.g. a powerful potion?) because it is protected with a quite hard to disable trap.

 

 

Greenstone Amulet

While finishing boots I've "discovered" that Boots of Etherealness (which is another item that really needs a while equipped effect) may actually fit Dimensional Anchor ability much better than this amulet. Am I wrong?

 

Perhaps I change my mind too often but I'm working on tons of items at the same time sorry!

 

P.S Greenstone Amulet completely missed any background lore, thus I've come up with something like this: "Creatures that attack the mind are the stuff of nightmares, so it is not surprising that items protecting against them might acquire some of their disrepute. Greenstone amulets, for example, have been linked to a claim that when the drow first retreated underground they fed on intellect devourers, and that eating such a creature without wearing a greenstone amulet produced a mind flayer. This is all, of course, nothing more than superstitious tavern talk. Nonetheless these mind shielding amulets are indeed used by drows who have to deal with the illithids, as they call them, being it a peaceful deal, or a not so peaceful one.

 

These highly prized items are fist-sized green stones worked into some kind of smooth shape, usually like a flattened egg, but sometimes like a shield or helmet. When activated, the greenstone protects the wearer from all forms of mind attacks, including psionics."

 

Ardanis, you own me a cookie for having taken into account your choice about the allocation of this item.

 

Dimensional Anchor is a Powerfull and unique effect which is probably very helpfull for any adventurer. Should be placed in Underdark or later (because killing Kangaxx with it isn't so hard).

Indeed, and in both cases it will be available only post-spellhold.

 

Amulet of Power

It would be too powerfull - ThaC0, damages, spells, thieving abilities... it's too much for one item. And there's lack of being unique. We do love Item Revision because some items grants something really special. This amulet's special stuff was fact that when used with cleric/mage it granted 14 spells. For other spellcasters it wasn't so cool - great stuff, why to ruin that for potion-like effect which from one side is overpowered but it's also so generic and unsignificant that noone will use it?

But "Caster Level Bonus" is actually an incredibly unique effect (surely much more than "additional spell slots), and not a single IR item grants it! Isn't such effect quite appealing? If it's a matter of balancing it I do agree a permanent Potion of Power would be too much...

 

 

Amulet of Seldarine

Regeneration effect doesn't fit to elves too much. What about making it really overpowered, heavy enchanted item. It's your reward for slaying Irenicus! I'm capable of accept this item as powerfull, destined for main character. What about effects?

- +1 boost to all of stats?

- maybe something class-based?

- it should be something connected with elves? magic, swordmanship, archers? dunno.

Well, I'd need more specific suggestions than "something class-based".

 

Anyway, I personally don't like the "+1 to all stats" as elves are known for their agility and wisdom, surely not for their muscles and toughness. I do thought something connected with elves and I even forced myself to read a lot of articles about the Seldarine...but I didn't found anything very inspiring.

 

P.S "making it really overpowered" is not in my dictionary.

[yarpen]

Equalizer

Also, any ideas about Equalizer? Personally, this item still doesn't look too powerfull. That's the problem of nearly all items crafted by Cromwell (with exception of Gesen's Bow, Crom Faeyr and dragon mails). Yes, it's much better than original version. Still, I think there's something you can do about it.

 

What about changing it's enchantment (only for which creatures it can hit) to +5 or even +6 (so it pierces every magical protection with exception of cheap and overpowered Protection from Magic Items)? Helm is all magic-hater, he slayed Mystra and his followers usually are very confident in fighting against magelings so I think it's appropriate. (something similiar to Staff of Magi ability: it has only +1 bonus to damage/thaco but strikes as +5 weapon). For counterbalance you can remove +4 bonus to thaco/damage and make it fully dependable on target's alignment (0/0 for True Neutral, +5 thaco/+10 damage vs. Lawful/Chaotic Good/Evil). Or what about letting thaco bonus untouched but increasing only damages?

 

Also I think that proposed for Sword of Chaos ability of Detecting Alignment could be helpfull.

 

Immunity to charm and confusion isn't IMO very appropriate for weapon (with exception of Liracor) - any better ideas? Maybe instead of that dispel on-hit, to make it ultimate Wizard Slayer tool?

 

EDIT: ouch, it's already only dealing increased amount of damage. But also: what about changing it from long sword into Helm's favourite weapon - Bastard Sword? It's going to be far more lethal and harder to dual-wield. It's effects are as far as I think working on BOTH of wielded weapons and moving it into heavy weapons will make it unnatractive for cheesy guys who will use it with Crom Faeyr

 

MOAR ToB items

Second thought is: in ToB you're spammed with high-level weapons but still, there's nearly lack of any interesting jewelry. There are two rings, two amulets, two pairs of bracers, two cloaks and one girdle. What about moving some less-powerfull but still cool SoA items there? Greenstone Amulet looks as quite nice candidate to send it into hell of weak plot and battle-spam.

[yarpen]

Anyway, I personally don't like the "+1 to all stats" as elves are known for their agility and wisdom, surely not for their muscles and toughness. I do thought something connected with elves and I even forced myself to read a lot of articles about the Seldarine...but I didn't found anything very inspiring.

But elves are cool, even Yarpen Zigrin, dwarf who's name I'm using as my nickname wanted to be one. Elves can do everything! They can make their cities disappear/appear, they have mythals and other stuff... yuck, I hate them. Still, wisdom/dexterity/charisma alone doesn't look very appealing.

 

And damn, it would be cool to give here raised caster's level but on this stage of game it's useless.

 

P.S "making it really overpowered" is not in my dictionary.

Pstch. Still it's reward after biggest in-game quest (game itself) so it should be like woohoo, we've got it. It's powerfull and cool. Mhm, what about making it ultimate mage/cleric equipment - granting 1-7 additional spells and maybe something cool as decreasing casting duration? About material about elves, try to look about Angharradh.

 

But "Caster Level Bonus" is actually an incredibly unique effect (surely much more than "additional spell slots), and not a single IR item grants it! Isn't such effect quite appealing? sad.gif If it's a matter of balancing it I do agree a permanent Potion of Power would be too much...

But yup, here it sounds reasonable. What about enhancing overall caster's level by 2: so raising effective spell level AND amount of spell slots. Mhm, demanding it from you would be awwwkard.

[Demivrgvs]

Equalizer

What about changing it's enchantment (only for which creatures it can hit) to +5 or even +6 (so it pierces every magical protection with exception of cheap and overpowered Protection from Magic Items)?

You know that there's not a single creature in the entire game immune to +4 weapons, do you? And +6 weapons are as good as +5 ones within SR and/or SCSII because we both "fix" Absolute Immunity to protect from +6 weapons.

 

Immunity to charm and confusion isn't IMO very appropriate for weapon (with exception of Liracor) - any better ideas? Maybe instead of that dispel on-hit, to make it ultimate Wizard Slayer tool?

If you have a better idea I may be fine replacing the two immunities, but dispel on-hit is starting to be really too common and should instead be incredibly rare. Not to mention I do fear the sheer power of such effect.

 

EDIT: ouch, it's already only dealing increased amount of damage. But also: what about changing it from long sword into Helm's favourite weapon - Bastard Sword? It's going to be far more lethal and harder to dual-wield. It's effects are as far as I think working on BOTH of wielded weapons and moving it into heavy weapons will make it unnatractive for cheesy guys who will use it with Crom Faeyr

Hi hi, nice suggestion in terms of "exploit blocking". Otoh I already removed in v3 the reference to Helm (not present in PnP) for one simple reason...Helm is lawful neutral and most of his followers are lawful!

 

 

MOAR ToB items

Second thought is: in ToB you're spammed with high-level weapons but still, there's nearly lack of any interesting jewelry. There are two rings, two amulets, two pairs of bracers, two cloaks and one girdle. What about moving some less-powerfull but still cool SoA items there? Greenstone Amulet looks as quite nice candidate to send it into hell of weak plot and battle-spam.

I've nothing against your suggestion per se, but I don't know how many items could really be moved to ToB.

 

Regarding Greenstone Amulet I actually wrote the description with the underdark and Ardanis' re-allocation in mind thus I'm not too much into moving it...though it would allow me to make the Mind Shield a permanent while equipped effect without fearing too much about its "overpowerness".

 

 

Amulet of Seldarine

And damn, it would be cool to give here raised caster's level but on this stage of game it's useless.

Yep, though it's probably still very useful for multiclasses.

 

Considering I've also "disabled" Sensate Amulet what about a Protection from Evil effect? Elves are indeed famous as you say for runes and protective mythals, and the whole Seldarine pantheon is made of good aligned gods. A +2 bonus to AC and all saves vs. evil creature in BG works against 90% of your opponents. That on top of +1 to DEX and WIS would be a solid base imo, but still "incomplete".

 

Elves are also famous for their their keen-sight and accuracy, thus perhaps a +2 bonus to THAC0 just like IWD's Symbol of Corellon Larethian?

 

 

Amulet of Power

But "Caster Level Bonus" is actually an incredibly unique effect (surely much more than "additional spell slots), and not a single IR item grants it! Isn't such effect quite appealing? If it's a matter of balancing it I do agree a permanent Potion of Power would be too much...

But yup, here it sounds reasonable. What about enhancing overall caster's level by 2: so raising effective spell level AND amount of spell slots. Mhm, demanding it from you would be awwwkard.

I'd love to, but I don't think it's doable as "change level" opcode wouldn't be of much help.

[Salk]

Amulet of Power

 

I think you should do one thing, Demi: change the name of it altogether and decide a new name and description according to what benefits it should grant. In this way, Potion of Power and the new Amulet of XXX will keep their unique characteristics (yarpen had a point there).

 

Speaking of which, the Potion of Power in IR v3 will have those neat class-based effects, as mentioned in the Revised Potion thread?

 

And one other thing, if we decide to actually change Amulet of Power into something else, should it still be of great benefit to all classes?

 

Boots of Etherealness

 

I can't but agree with you. The dimensional anchor effects seem to suit this item best than anything else. But then those boots in IR had a very nice unique characteristic that should be then swapped to the Greenstone Amulet, like this:

 

Greenstone Amulet

 

Special Abilities (once per day):

 

Etherealness: wearer becomes ethereal for 5 rounds. While in this state he is immune to normal and magical weapons, has 100% magic resistance and is completely invisible. Anyway he is also unable to attack or cast spell.

 

Boots of Etherealness -> Boots of Anchoring

 

Special Abilities (once per day):

 

Dimensional Anchor: Immunity to Teleport Field, Maze and Imprisonment for 1 turn

[Jarno Mikkola]

Boots of Etherealness -> Boots of Anchoring

Special Abilities (once per day):

Dimensional Anchor: Immunity to Teleport Field, Maze and Imprisonment for 1 turn

How can they be an anchor if it's not always active? Just asking, and remember that the 1 per day ability items are always active-able and removed. So make the effect permanent while equipped. The Flayers can still drain the intelligence...

[yarpen]

Hi hi, nice suggestion in terms of "exploit blocking". Otoh I already removed in v3 the reference to Helm (not present in PnP) for one simple reason...Helm is lawful neutral and most of his followers are lawful!

It's very questionable because Helm is a deity which maintain balance between good and evil. He keeps them from domination of one side - it's not important is it good or evil. As ultimate judge he cannot be good and evil. That's how he's Neutral. But also he's Lawful. Personnaly I don't like your decision about removing Helm from story of this item. And Dispel Magic fits then perfectly. How many of items with this effect you have: Staff of Magi (only for mages), Karsomir and Purifier (only for paladins) and the end. My wizard slayer deserves his license for mage-killing and good tools of trade.

[Icendoan]

Boots of Etherealness -> Boots of Anchoring

Special Abilities (once per day):

Dimensional Anchor: Immunity to Teleport Field, Maze and Imprisonment for 1 turn

How can they be an anchor if it's not always active? Just asking, and remember that the 1 per day ability items are always active-able and removed. So make the effect permanent while equipped. The Flayers can still drain the intelligence...

 

Overpowered much?

 

If it were to be permanent, it at least needs a penalty: how about something which makes them more of a physical anchor as well, such as slowing them down?

 

Icen

[Jarno Mikkola]

Overpowered much?

And if I switch the boots to boots of speed during the effect, isn't that much OP as well?

[Demivrgvs]

Greenstone Amulet & Boots of Etherealness

Salk, I wasn't suggesting to switch their vanilla abilities, but that Boots of Etherealness' lore/background seems a lot more appropriate for a Dimensional Anchor ability because both abilities involve "plane-travels".

 

If you've seen the new lore I've written for Greenstone Amulet it should be quite clear that the Mind Shielding effect is supposed to be the main feature of this amulet.

 

Plus I do agree with Jarno that making Dimensional Anchor a once/day ability would actually make it even more OP than it may already be.

 

 

Equalizer

Hi hi, nice suggestion in terms of "exploit blocking". Otoh I already removed in v3 the reference to Helm (not present in PnP) for one simple reason...Helm is lawful neutral and most of his followers are lawful!

It's very questionable because Helm is a deity which maintain balance between good and evil. He keeps them from domination of one side - it's not important is it good or evil. As ultimate judge he cannot be good and evil. That's how he's Neutral. But also he's Lawful. Personnaly I don't like your decision about removing Helm from story of this item.

Just so you know, he's not a judge (that would be Tyr) he's an uber-loyal guardian, so loyal that he can commit evil acts if "necessary". Watchers of Helm must be lawful good/neutral/evil, and thus having a non-lawful Helm-related weapon which does maximum damage against his own followers seems really stupid to me (in fact in PnP this weapon is not related to Helm at all).

 

And Dispel Magic fits then perfectly. How many of items with this effect you have: Staff of Magi (only for mages), Karsomir and Purifier (only for paladins) and the end. My wizard slayer deserves his license for mage-killing and good tools of trade.

Plus Bala's Axe, which is an incredibly interesting weapon now being it able to bypass PfMW and dispel it. Dispel on-hit may fit the Equalizer yes (dispelling may be seen as "restoring the balance"), I'm just saying that I do fear the sheer effectiveness of this ability (even David had to tweak Carsomyr like I did because he felt it too powerful against mages).

 

P.S I do try to take into account wizard slayers as much as I can (there are a couple of items for them like Adjatha and Mana Bow, they can now use potions, ...), and I'll continue to do so.

[yarpen]

Dispel on-hit may fit the Equalizer yes (dispelling may be seen as "restoring the balance")

Exactly. There's lack of weapons like this. I think that dispelling effect of this weapon should be even more powerfull than one from Karsomir. At overall, this weapon should be epic: to obtain Karsomir you have to kill few orcs and dragon. For obtaining Equalizer? Slashing through caves full of ithilids and beholders aren't funny. Dispel magic without save would make it really impressive. As it should be.

 

So, how PnP Equalizer works?

 

(even David had to tweak Carsomyr like I did because he felt it too powerful against mages).

That's because in his opinion wizards cannot be slayed by fighters - mages scripts are most advanced and they're only one challenge. Duh.

[Ardanis]

Ardanis, you own me a cookie for having taken into account your choice about the allocation of this item.

Which you prefer, with jam or chocolate?)

 

Equalizer

Exactly. There's lack of weapons like this. I think that dispelling effect of this weapon should be even more powerfull than one from Karsomir. At overall, this weapon should be epic: to obtain Karsomir you have to kill few orcs and dragon. For obtaining Equalizer? Slashing through caves full of ithilids and beholders aren't funny. Dispel magic without save would make it really impressive. As it should be.

Can't agree. To get Carsomyr you need to kill a red dragon, and that's far from funny, especially with tripled HP. Beholders just need careful planning and reconnaissance, and illithids are killable too.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Equalizer

Dispel effect...

I can see the weapon to have Dispel on Hit, as long as it can't be used by a Paladin.

Besides, the sword is useless without a power up like this, as it's way too useless to even go through the trouble to get it compiled.

[yarpen]

If there 'd be any true neutral fighter in-game, I'd love to restrict it to Neutral characters.