IR V3 - List of changes from V2 to V3

[Jarno Mikkola]

If there 'd be any true neutral fighter in-game, I'd love to restrict it to Neutral characters.

Jaheira, and Cernd, Yoshimo... now if you can let go of the True (neutral), then Anomen, Imoen, Minsc, Nalia, Valygar, Haer'Dalis, Jan, Viconia.

 

But it's probably better to outlaw it from, non-Neutral alignments.

 

The non-neutrals are: Aerie(LG), Keldorn(LG), Mazzy(LG), Edwin(LE), Korgan(CE).

[Demivrgvs]

Equalizer

So, how PnP Equalizer works?

Ehm...I just noticed a "small" feature which is missing from its PnP version. Creatures of an extreme alignment (Lawful Good/Evil, or Chaotic Good/Evil) struck by the Equalizer must save vs. spell or...ehm...they are disintegrated.

 

I can see the weapon to have Dispel on Hit, as long as it can't be used by a Paladin.

Besides, the sword is useless without a power up like this, as it's way too useless to even go through the trouble to get it compiled.

Paladins cannot use this weapon within IR since v2.

 

I'd love to restrict it to Neutral characters.

...it's probably better to outlaw it from, non-Neutral alignments.

That's exactly what I did, to wield this artifact within IR you have to be at least partially neutral aligned.

[yarpen]

Ehm...I just noticed a "small" feature which is missing from its PnP version. Creatures of an extreme alignment (Lawful Good/Evil, or Chaotic Good/Evil) struck by the Equalizer must save vs. spell or...ehm...they are disintegrated.

Wow. It's I think too powerfull, even for Equalizer. Or maybe?

[Jarno Mikkola]

Ehm...I just noticed a "small" feature which is missing from its PnP version. Creatures of an extreme alignment (Lawful Good/Evil, or Chaotic Good/Evil) struck by the Equalizer must save vs. spell or...ehm...they are disintegrated.

Wow. It's I think too powerfull, even for Equalizer. Or maybe?

Why, it's not like the enemies don't have disintegration rays etc.

Of course the antimagic attack is a little more balanced...

 

That's exactly what I did, to wield this artifact within IR you have to be at least partially neutral aligned.

Now, isn't that a cute thing.

[Icendoan]

By a long way, especially since most NPCs are of "extreme alignment"

 

 

Icen

[Guest Guest]

I have IR v2 installed and i just had Equalizer assembled. I ended up selling it. Neutrals only is pretty darn limiting. That was a heavy let down for the time and effort. It was week before but at least it could be used. I am enjoying most everything else.

[Demivrgvs]

Equalizer

Ehm...I just noticed a "small" feature which is missing from its PnP version. Creatures of an extreme alignment (Lawful Good/Evil, or Chaotic Good/Evil) struck by the Equalizer must save vs. spell or...ehm...they are disintegrated.

Wow. It's I think too powerfull, even for Equalizer. Or maybe?

Why, it's not like the enemies don't have disintegration rays etc.

Of course the antimagic attack is a little more balanced...

By a long way, especially since most NPCs are of "extreme alignment"

Yep, without adjustments (e.g. low % chance on hit) it's extremely OP imo, it's almost a vorpal effect on each attack! As it is in PnP even dispel on-hit would be less OP!

 

I have IR v2 installed and i just had Equalizer assembled. I ended up selling it. Neutrals only is pretty darn limiting. That was a heavy let down for the time and effort. It was week before but at least it could be used. I am enjoying most everything else.

As you may have noticed other players like roleplaying things like this, and it's surely much less restrictive than "only paladin", "only evil" or similar class/alignment restrictions. Between NPCs those who can take the most from it are Valygar and Haer'Dalis (both great characters, and the latter in the right hands is a powerhouse), while Imoen is on most players party combinations and can wield it with various results (as a Swashbuckler/Mage she can fight pretty well imo), and Jan can wield it too.

[yarpen]

Philosopher Jagger said "you cannot always get what you want".

[Guest Guest]

Equalizer

Ehm...I just noticed a "small" feature which is missing from its PnP version. Creatures of an extreme alignment (Lawful Good/Evil, or Chaotic Good/Evil) struck by the Equalizer must save vs. spell or...ehm...they are disintegrated.

Wow. It's I think too powerfull, even for Equalizer. Or maybe?

Why, it's not like the enemies don't have disintegration rays etc.

Of course the antimagic attack is a little more balanced...

By a long way, especially since most NPCs are of "extreme alignment"

Yep, without adjustments (e.g. low % chance on hit) it's extremely OP imo, it's almost a vorpal effect on each attack! As it is in PnP even dispel on-hit would be less OP!

 

I have IR v2 installed and i just had Equalizer assembled. I ended up selling it. Neutrals only is pretty darn limiting. That was a heavy let down for the time and effort. It was week before but at least it could be used. I am enjoying most everything else.

As you may have noticed other players like roleplaying things like this, and it's surely much less restrictive than "only paladin", "only evil" or similar class/alignment restrictions. Between NPCs those who can take the most from it are Valygar and Haer'Dalis (both great characters, and the latter in the right hands is a powerhouse), while Imoen is on most players party combinations and can wield it with various results (as a Swashbuckler/Mage she can fight pretty well imo), and Jan can wield it too.

 

From a roleplaying perspective, this sword and Crom Faeyr are the most difficult and complicated items to be obtained in the game. This indicates to me that these should be among the most powerful weapons in SOA. For Crom Faeyr that is certainly true. But from a game design point of view, you are lured to the Equalizer from the very beginning of the game. Its almost in parallel with the quest to find Imoen. Considering that it seems to me to be a weapon designed for the protagonist, not a secondary side kick. From that perspective, I don't think there should be any alignment restrictions. If a player thinks there should be a restriction on alignment, they have the easiest solution in the world. Don't use it. I don't think that's unreasonable.

[Icendoan]

Perhaps not a restriction on alignment, per se, but a serious penalty to non-true neutral wielders, to the effect of taking HP on hit as well as a lowered max HP, or something more inventive.

 

My table for penalties on Equalizer wielding would be like this:

 

No penalty: True-Neutral

Low Penalty: X-Neutral (Arguably more neutral on good/evil scales as opposed to law/chaos scales)

Medium Penalty: Neutral-X

High Penalty: X-X

 

Icen

[Guest Guest]

Thats the same result by a different path, nobody would use it except neutrals. I think it should be as usable as celestial fury and more powerful. Its a late game, extremely hard to get item that is more central to the plot.

[Salk]

I am usually in favour of alignment restrictions because I feel like the alignment factor does not weigh enough in the game.

 

Still, I'd rather introduce penalties for using the Equalizer the more distant the weilder is from neutrality (just like Icendoan suggested).

 

My table:

 

True Neutral: No penalty

Lawful Neutral / Chaotic Neutral: -1 Damage

Neutral Good / Neutral Evil: -1 Thac0, -2 Damage

Other Alignments: -2 Thac0, -4 Damage

 

With these penalties, the sword is nerfed enough without being discarded.

[Guest Guest]

But would you use it? This should be a weapon everyone wants to get. You are being teased with it almost from the opening scene. And it already has penalties to what it can damage. You want it to have multiplied penalties?

 

When I think equalizer, I think: "Look out Irenicus, now the odds are even."

 

Not, "Oh, another little sword, lets give it to Imoen. Maybe she can use it once in a while if she's not casting a spell."

 

Remember, this game is suppose to be fun. Working hard to find an "epic weapon" to defeat your powerful nemesis, that's fun. Remeber there is only one other weapon similar to this in the whole game. And that one is not as tied to the plot. You get the Equalizer at the start and end of rescuing Imoen. I think it's status should reflect that. If I were writing this as a novel, getting this weapon would be a major plot point in my protagonists ultimate victory.

[Shaitan]

I like Demi's original idea, but will live with Salk's "nerfed" solution. I don't like OP'ed items. I think Equalizer is. Another solution would be to comment out the changes from IR.

[Demivrgvs]

Equalizer

But would you use it? This should be a weapon everyone wants to get. You are being teased with it almost from the opening scene. And it already has penalties to what it can damage. You want it to have multiplied penalties?

 

When I think equalizer, I think: "Look out Irenicus, now the odds are even."

 

Not, "Oh, another little sword, lets give it to Imoen. Maybe she can use it once in a while if she's not casting a spell."

 

Remember, this game is suppose to be fun. Working hard to find an "epic weapon" to defeat your powerful nemesis, that's fun. Remeber there is only one other weapon similar to this in the whole game. And that one is not as tied to the plot. You get the Equalizer at the start and end of rescuing Imoen. I think it's status should reflect that. If I were writing this as a novel, getting this weapon would be a major plot point in my protagonists ultimate victory.

As I said, this is not a huge restriction, 5 of 9 alignments is a lot more than True Neutral only as per PnP. Then, if you're Lawful/Chaotic Evil Blackrazor would be a more powerful choice anyway, if you're Lawful Good more often than not you're a Paladin and you go for Holy Avengers, and if you're Chaotic Good there are other outstandingly good long swords within IR, as both Angurvadal (even in its "lesser" form) and The Answerer are quite more powerful than before.

 

Within IR I want to encourage "variety", I don't want players to look forward the very same weapon (e.g. Equalizer, Carsomyr, ...) each time they play, as I think you'll find much more fun to use a lot of different weapons depending on your party composition (type of class, alignment, ...).

 

That being said, I'll make it slightly more offensive with a toned down version of its PnP "disintegrate extreme alignments on hit" ability. I'll make it disintegrate only "on critical hit", though you all know I can't really tie it to criticals and you'll have to live with a low % chance (a la vorpal swords). This should also encourage players to use it as main hand weapon instead of off-hand.

 

P.S You always have to live with restrictions, as the type of weapon itself is a restriction (e.g. druids and clerics cannot use long swords), and not all protagonists are proficient with long swords.