IA v6 Final

[Ardanis]

Nice WoT, but the Things everyone could be doing instead of reading this thread post of yours from Offtopic Anvil Discussion was waaay cooler

[Saros]

Found another loophole, left open by Sikret's testing team. It provides the party with good xp boost (practically infinite, but even each separate use of the exploit is well worth it, not some lousy 500-1000 xp) ih the early chapter 2 and also some loot, which may be either sold or used (and is really handy in IA). For anyone willing to use this exploit, let he/she write me a PM and will reveal it. Don't wanna post it in the forum since it may spoil the game of other IA players. However, I tested it and it really works. The previous loophole I found provided with gold only, and was not so easy to reach as the new one.

[isleepwithfucking goats]

Grim did delete the download link, didn't he? So you can't really call G3 community as openly supporting piracy in any kind of form. I don't approve of the leaking either, since doing is no different, in terms of disrespect towards whoever, from the endless waves of insults and trashing that come (well, not so much as of late) from BWL.

 

 

 

Epic

 

 

 

 

Ok now carry on with the walkthru's guys.

[InKal]

(hollier than thou babbling about nothing)

 

We now return you to a discussion of a playthrough of a mod, (hopefully focussing on) the relative likes/dislikes, strengths and weaknesses of playstyle and coding choices, uses of/walkthroughs of help to other players, avoiding ugliness and namecalling and poking fun at other modders from any community... or not. In which case we all get bored with the cat-and-mouse-game of lock-thread-unlock-thread-repeat-until-the-heat-death-of-the-universe.

 

Wat? Don't you realize that this is a "stolen" mod walkthrough? Don't you see it? Ha! We're talking about double standards here indeed. Link to "stolen" mod = not cool, walkthrough of a "stolen" mod = cool - LOL

 

Dear G3 staff, made up your mind, please. Stop removing links to not copyrighted material (you breaking your own rules here, right? ) or remove entire thread!

 

Found another loophole, left open by Sikret's testing team. It provides the party with good xp boost (practically infinite, but even each separate use of the exploit is well worth it, not some lousy 500-1000 xp) ih the early chapter 2 and also some loot, which may be either sold or used (and is really handy in IA). For anyone willing to use this exploit, let he/she write me a PM and will reveal it. Don't wanna post it in the forum since it may spoil the game of other IA players. However, I tested it and it really works. The previous loophole I found provided with gold only, and was not so easy to reach as the new one.

 

hahah, entire effort for nothing. Sikret_the_Great and his team of useful idiots failed again. Keep fighting the good fight, man!

[lroumen]

Found another loophole, left open by Sikret's testing team. It provides the party with good xp boost (practically infinite, but even each separate use of the exploit is well worth it, not some lousy 500-1000 xp) ih the early chapter 2 and also some loot, which may be either sold or used (and is really handy in IA). For anyone willing to use this exploit, let he/she write me a PM and will reveal it. Don't wanna post it in the forum since it may spoil the game of other IA players. However, I tested it and it really works. The previous loophole I found provided with gold only, and was not so easy to reach as the new one.

I hope this is not your obsession .

 

 

Saros, if IA v6 is as linear as you previously discussed, which particular order would you use to get through the game?

 

IA v5 was quite linear already because for certain encounters you needed really a good selection of spells. Early on you could relatively get away with doing small quests before encountering anything difficult like Suna Seni (well, for a low level party it is hard, but for a mildly quested party it is fine). In IA v5 a relatively easy start would be roaming a few easy quests. I think I played the following order, but it can be shuffled a bit since you do not need to go to either the docks or government areas first but it helps for picking up a few quests. As long as you do not go to the graveyard district after a few travels (very early is fine) you had a few possible orders that you could do before you would meet Suna Seni.

1. Waukeen (Circus)

2. Slums (CC, Garren Windspear, Nalias Keep)

3. Docks (Jaheira Ployer, Maevar/Edwin)

4. Government (Jaheira Ployer, Delon Umar Hills, Jan, Viconia, Tolgerias/Valygar)

5. either a or b

5a. Temple (Unseeing Eye bits, Maevar quest, Paladin quest) [no option to go temple->bridge->temple->bridge->temple for the completion of the paladin quest]

5b. Bridge (Skinner, the call for HaerDalis)

6. either a or b

6a. Slums (Jaheira Ployer)

6b. Docks (getting the thief stronghold from the Maevar/Edwin quest is possible before meeting Suna Seni in the city)

7. Gate (Flydian Trademeet)

8. Leave the city

 

Upon leaving the city you have not encountered Suna Seni yet nor the Harpers (and even if you meet the harpers, just carry the body) Once out of the city you can complete parts of the areas until you are blocked by tougher foes... something like this I recall.

9a. Nalias keep probably until you open the gate.

9b. Umar hills bits (Madulf, Idle Hands, Valygar, Chickens, Mimics Blood)

9c. Trademeet Djinni, First druid challenge

9d. Windspear Acorns, First level

9e. Watcher's Keep Level 1

 

At that point you would have a few decent spells and party members to use in the Suna Seni encounter and then you would roam a few things like Copper Coronet slavers, Unseeing Eye total and then try a larger quests etc.

 

How are these things changed in v6? Is Suna Seni for instance earlier than before or are a few of the easier quests blocked again?

[geh4th]

3. I knew geh4th as a good guy from IA testing team, but it seems I was wrong. These acts, posts and other things is pure vengeance from geh4th and as I wrote to him in private he wrote so rude posts on BWL what I wouldn't have tolerate also at all. So George, I am disappointed in you...

 

Hi, Shadan. Long time no speak.

 

Just for your enlightenment, I am still the "good guy" you knew me to be in the testing forum. I cared then, and I care now about the things that are important to me. I am a rational, intelligent person who knows when he sees something that is wrong. You saw it too - you stood with me against Sikret about all of the things I've mention in this thread: Bards, Paladins, Little Peoples, etc. Improved Anvil is flawed and you said so openly, just as I did.

 

The difference between you and I is that I had no reservations about continuing to point out the problems of Improved Anvil (and it's designer) before it was released and it was too late. I came to realize that the problem wasn't the mod content, it was Sikret. He has now released it (I am ignoring his lame fabrication about how it's still being "beta tested" blah blah) and to make things far worse, he intentionally broke the promise that he'd made to ALL Improved Anvil fans to release it for free.

 

I tried to talk to you by PM, Shadan, back when these problems started. You said you don't have much of an attention span and that you didn't feel like reading an explanation. You then summarily judged me not on right or wrong, but on a couple of profane words I'd said to Baronius when he very deliberately provoked me. You decided that my reaction - the profanity itself - was the crime rather than the provocation that caused me to say it.

 

I find it ironic - and rather hypocritical - that you feel justified to sit in judgement of my actions now, when you previously told me that you didn't care enough to bother with the details. You should recall that I DID openly apologize to you and the other test team members for exposing you to my anger when it should have been directed at Baronius personally. I deliberately didn't apologize to Baronius, because I meant then (and still do today) every word I'd said to him.

 

I agree that profanity is generally bad manners; you should know that I try to avoid it in my everyday conversation. Many people in many countries don't bother with any such restraint. But you know what? If someone is provoked, it's more than justified as a response; it is used for emphasis. The real crime here wasn't my response, it was Baronius' provocations and Sikret's refusal to do anything about them. None of this would have happened if Sikret had done the right thing and put Baronius in his place.

 

I did have - and continue to have - a serious problem with Baronius. He's a sleazy person and proved it. I consider him an enemy of the entire BG2 gaming community and will always oppose him. I'm not alone in that sentiment as you well know.

 

As for Sikret, I feel mostly pity for him because he truly doesn't understand what kind of a person he is - that he's the source of literally all of his own problems. His arrogance is beyond bounds. And just so you know, I tried maintaining a dialogue with him via emails. I genuinely wanted to help him learn to be a better person. I went MONTHS without taking action, without releasing any part of Improved Anvil, but he decided that he didn't want to talk to me any more. People that can't deal with the truth often have that sort of reaction.

 

I really wish you'd have cared enough to bother listening at the time, and all of us testers would have stood firm against Sikret. Improved Anvil could be a mod much more worth playing if it's designer weren't so narrow minded and prejudiced. Sikret could be a part of the BG2 modding community if he didn't behave as though everyone he talks to is inferior to him in intelligence or ability.

 

You might be disappointed in me, but I'm every bit as much disappointed in you, too.

[Saros]

About loopholes (infinite gold and experience exploits inside the game engine):

 

Most of them were closed by Sikret & his testing team in IA 6.0. Apparently, they tried to close all. Will give most notable examples of such exploits being closed. The monster (s) in the following examples carry no treasure and give no xp when slain:

 

- Bandit encounters after the 3rd one (orogs and 2 slavers). In fact, the mage here carries an oracle scroll, but that's all. And they're improved, so it's really not worth fighting over a 300gp-worth scroll.

- Amnish guards appearing for 'thief alarm' or low reputation.

- Amnish legionaries interrupting resting on the streets.

- Wish-spell created potions, Alchemy-created potions, Scribe Scroll-created scrolls.

- Vanilla infinite monster spawns. These are numerous, and include monsters interrupting resting in dungeons.

- The 'Call Wyvern' spell. This was my hidden ace vs IA 6.0. I never revealed the exploit of slaying summoned wyverns and selling their heads. Thought no one will find it. I was wrong. Apparently someone in Sikret's team also knew about this and eliminated it.

 

And more similar exploits were blocked.

 

I personally am not 'obsessed' to find anyone's flaws. We're human. We all make mistakes. But when I try a new insanely difficult mod, in my first runthroughs I always tend to use such loopholes to some extent. When I use SK or the export/import buttons, I feel uncomfortable and don't enjoy the game at all. That's the reason I'm looking for loopholes.

 

As for the quest order:

 

I can eliminate Suna Seni's group in a no-reload game on Insane difficulty with a solo 10-th level mage, despite of the 'purge magic' trap which affects PC at start of combat(this is the only change in IA 6.0, and positively set so that a soloer couldn't win this fight). In fact, in my IA 6.0 walkthroughs so far I hunt down Suna Seni and Rylock's bandits first thing after accumulating some easy xp in the Promenade (circus tent) and Brigde (Reijek's quest). In fact, it's the second group (Rylock's) which gives me more trouble recently, but still a no-reload tactic for a 10-th level mage is developed for that fight as well. So, I'm not confined to following a certain path to avoid the bandit encounters. Quite the contrary - I quickly eliminate them so that I can travel freely throughout the city and to the outside areas.

 

As for the rest of the described quests - haven't tried the 'Improved Beholders' yet, but I suppose that the Unseeing eye quest is not so vanilla anymore. Not to mention the fact that vanilla Yuanti fighters are upgraded, and there is at least one Yuan-ti encounter usually on the 3rd level of the temple sewers. Also, Vampiric mists are now slayers of a low-level party, and there are 2-3 present on the 2nd level of the sewers.

 

Trademeet quests are almost the same as before. However, there is a group of spiders (1 Killer, 1 Spirit, 1 Lesser Spirit, 2 Sword) in the place of the previous random vanilla spider group. Still, those can be bypassed under Invisibility if you don't feel like fighting them with a low-level party. Also, one cannot challenge for the leadership of the Grove if PC's not actually a druid of lvl 14. So no RoP +2, no Cleric's Staff +3 and no xp + gold either.

 

The rest of the listed quests are pretty much the same, but some of the vanilla monsters have a) been slightly improved, and I mean slightly; b) have their experience value reduced significantly. Example: Rayic Gethrac is now accompanied by a Clay and a Stone golem, and those are worth respectively 6500 and 5000 xp (vanilla values 5000 and 8000 respectively).

 

What I mean by 'the game is more linear now' is not the first vanilla quests. It comes afterwards and is dictated by limiting the game resources even further. Eliminating scrolls like Improved Haste and Spell Immunity from shops, for example, but not only that. And of course, limiting creativity (as geh4th stated already) by nerfing/removing even more spells and items. Far more items and spells (mostly vanilla ones) are nerfed other than those already mentioned in the IA 6.0 readme document.

[geh4th]

Saros, if IA v6 is as linear as you previously discussed, which particular order would you use to get through the game?

 

IA v5 was quite linear already because for certain encounters you needed really a good selection of spells. Early on you could relatively get away with doing small quests before encountering anything difficult like Suna Seni (well, for a low level party it is hard, but for a mildly quested party it is fine). In IA v5 a relatively easy start would be roaming a few easy quests. I think I played the following order, but it can be shuffled a bit since you do not need to go to either the docks or government areas first but it helps for picking up a few quests. As long as you do not go to the graveyard district after a few travels (very early is fine) you had a few possible orders that you could do before you would meet Suna Seni.

1. Waukeen (Circus)

2. Slums (CC, Garren Windspear, Nalias Keep)

3. Docks (Jaheira Ployer, Maevar/Edwin)

4. Government (Jaheira Ployer, Delon Umar Hills, Jan, Viconia, Tolgerias/Valygar)

5. either a or b

5a. Temple (Unseeing Eye bits, Maevar quest, Paladin quest) [no option to go temple->bridge->temple->bridge->temple for the completion of the paladin quest]

5b. Bridge (Skinner, the call for HaerDalis)

6. either a or b

6a. Slums (Jaheira Ployer)

6b. Docks (getting the thief stronghold from the Maevar/Edwin quest is possible before meeting Suna Seni in the city)

7. Gate (Flydian Trademeet)

8. Leave the city

 

Upon leaving the city you have not encountered Suna Seni yet nor the Harpers (and even if you meet the harpers, just carry the body) Once out of the city you can complete parts of the areas until you are blocked by tougher foes... something like this I recall.

9a. Nalias keep probably until you open the gate.

9b. Umar hills bits (Madulf, Idle Hands, Valygar, Chickens, Mimics Blood)

9c. Trademeet Djinni, First druid challenge

9d. Windspear Acorns, First level

9e. Watcher's Keep Level 1

 

At that point you would have a few decent spells and party members to use in the Suna Seni encounter and then you would roam a few things like Copper Coronet slavers, Unseeing Eye total and then try a larger quests etc.

 

How are these things changed in v6? Is Suna Seni for instance earlier than before or are a few of the easier quests blocked again?

 

I never really considered Suna Seni to be all that much of a threatening encounter as long as you figure out what to do to defeat it. Even a party not far removed from Irenicus' dungeon can pull it off, and it's not really all that difficult.

 

For that reason, I realized that there really wasn't a pressing need to proceed to certain areas in order to get out of the city in a sort of panicked frenzy.

 

The biggest (early game) "break point" in Improved Anvil is the moment that your mage(s) gain 7th level spells. A large number of encounters involving enemy mages are very difficult (if not near-impossible) to handle before you have the mightiest of mighty dispelling tools, the exalted Ruby Ray of Reversal. Once you have that spell a whole new world of possibilities opens up.

 

The old IA v5 path is still a valid and useful list showing a sensible order of "things to do", but not because of a need to avoid Suna Seni. I think it's useful because you get a lot of good loot and experience from the path of Imnesvale to Trademeet to the Druid Grove to Windspear (outside, anyhow) and to the first level of the De'Arnise keep.

 

(I realized in writing this that Saros had made his own reply as well.)

[geh4th]

My biggest problems with that Rylock (-has been poisoned) encounter has always been avoiding a situation where my own party members get confused and accidentally kill Rylock ourselves. That can be kind of annoying.

 

The enemy party isn't all that fearsome. In other mods the improved city encounters are much more difficult due to the constant threat of backstabbing thieves. Improved Anvil doesn't have that - it's mostly just a hack 'n' slash (Suna Seni included.)

[Saros]

Still, Suna Seni and Rylock's bandits each have a thief in the group, which in my tests proved to be effective enough with backstab (almost managed to eliminate twice with a single blow my PC, who was berserker lvl 17 dualled to mage lvl 10, so he had 160 HP - the hits left him on below 20 - this of course in two different attempts to win the battle).

 

The Suna Seni fight was simply easier because I had a Contingency scroll activated beforehand, which provided PC with immediate Improved Invisibility at start of combat (but after buffs were dispelled). The second fight, while lacking so many powerful enemy fighters, was harder, because PC had to haste himself, then cast II, and THEN to successfully interrupt enemy cleric's True Sight, before starting to cast spells like Stoneskin, Ghost armor and so on.

[geh4th]

Ah, but remember....I haven't played the game solo. That's your gig.

 

I used traditional groups (well, groups like I pointed out above...) without being higher level or having extra spells like contingency. I also wasn't seeking loopholes.

 

My comments are based more from the perspective of someone playing the mod "normally".

[Saros]

As previously stated, my PC was a 10th level mage on both encounters, so he also didn't have Contingency. I simply made use of the resources available, also bought/ saved some other scroll - Stoneskins, Webs, Greater Malisons, Improved Invisibilities, Emotions. The Contingency scroll (1 only) is dropped by the 1st or 2nd vanilla thief vs vampire night-time encounters.

[JMason79]

Hey. I've taken a look at BWL (from what is still available on its fora) and also what's readable on other fora about them. Honestly, they don't look as bad guys as all the bashing would dictate. Not only they've a free download site already mentioned on BioWare (Dragon's House, http://dh.blackwyrmlair.net), they publish some "modder" resource homepage as well (Community Asset), and most of their mods aren't charged (as far as I can see).

 

I did have - and continue to have - a serious problem with Baronius. He's a sleazy person and proved it. I consider him an enemy of the entire BG2 gaming community and will always oppose him. I'm not alone in that sentiment as you well know.

As far as I can see, he's still the Admin of a tiny modding portal, and declaring him Public Enemy #1 doesn't do any good to the Community. A tiny modding page called BWL, yet it's still the host of the mod IA that makes a lot of controversy. Where are you man? In the Moon?

 

As for Sikret, I feel mostly pity for him because he truly doesn't understand what kind of a person he is - that he's the source of literally all of his own problems.

Hey why do you think all this controversy means any problem to him? It looks like he's having fun in what he's doing, otherwise he wouldn't consider it Number #1 in his RL. As far as I can see, they're most happy there on BWL portal, and it's YOU who got obsessed with all the politics, IA, cheese blocking, Sikret, Baronious etc. Get a life.

 

I agree that profanity is generally bad manners; you should know that I try to avoid it in my everyday conversation. Many people in many countries don't bother with any such restraint. But you know what? If someone is provoked, it's more than justified as a response; it is used for emphasis. The real crime here wasn't my response, it was Baronius' provocations and Sikret's refusal to do anything about them. None of this would have happened if Sikret had done the right thing and put Baronius in his place.

 

Again, vigilantism! Is this site for vigilantes? OMG. Geh4th, as an American, you shouldn't only be fond of freedom of speech, but you should also refuse any type of vigilantism. "He provoked it, so I've slain him". Shame on you, George.

[Saros]

I say enough on the BWL agenda about copyrights, vigilantism and more such nonsense. We're discussing the mod, its flaws, tactics, encounters, and other stuff connected to the mod. Already was discussed that everyone here has their right to do whatever he/she wants (that includes me, geh4th, isleepwithfuckinggoats and other) because we're actually breaking no laws. As for moral issues - each person has to decide those for him/herself.

 

JMason79, if you want to and have to discuss something about the mod, go ahead. The other type of posts lead nowhere and are most probably gonna be ignored, and by the way, they're off topic here.

 

As a side note, I tried installing 'The Four' mod on top of IA 6.0, and it seems it works normally.

[lroumen]

Thanks for the insights.

The v5 suggested order I wrote down was basically put in place to ascertain that a more casual player would find the resources, spell scrolls and experience that a normal 6 character party would need to beat Suna (leveling up to greater command and chaotic commands, finding or buying choas and emotion spells, etc). It depended a little on the party members you had of course and you can beat them with a generic party early on without going the distance (out of town).

 

In any case, if spell scrolls are now seriously hidden, I wonder how all the IA mages got to find them