IR v3 Feedback

[Demivrgvs]

Underdark's Lesser Demon Lord

Doesn't the Tanar'ri Lord in the Underdark, if you choose to fight him rather then sending him off or trading for the eggs, require +5? I thought he was the only enemy he did.

That demon is somewhat bugged, he is immune to +4 weapons, but he is vulnerable to +3 ones. When IR's main component is installed the .cre file is patched to remove the immunity to +4 weapons.

I don't think so, any creature immune to +X enchantment weapons is automagically immune to (+X -1) weapons (+X -2) etc.,

IMMUNEx.ITM files are used to make cretures immune to x-1 enchantment, and there's a separate header for each enchantment lvl (e.g. non-magical, +1 and +2 uses 3 different entries). They correctly assigned the demon IMMUNE3.ITM (aka you need +3 to hit), but then they added a separate +4 immunity to the .cre itself in a kinda odd way. Considering that Demogorgon, a way more powerful demon lord/prince, is vulnerable to +3 weapons, it makes absolutely no sense for a lesser demon lord (aka a common Balor or Pit Fiend who got some career) to require +5 enchantment.

Short story: we assumed it was an error because of its unusual implementation, lack of consistency with PnP rules, and common sense (players almost surely not even have a single +5 weapon by then), thus we fixed it.

[Ardanis]

IMMUNEx.ITM files are used to make cretures immune to x-1 enchantment, and there's a separate header for each enchantment lvl (e.g. non-magical, +1 and +2 uses 3 different entries).

 

The +1 immunity effect is obsolete if there's +2 immunity. At least it's true for single-source effects.

 

PS Unless it's BGEE-only feature, that is.

[Jarno Mikkola]

The +1 immunity effect is obsolete if there's +2 immunity. At least it's true for single-source effects.

Sorry, but WHAT ? The actual effect is immunity to enchantment level y melee damage. There's no +1's, just enchantment level 1 and so forth, so you could actually be immune to levels 2, 3, 4, 5 and 7, while the rest kill you instantly(as in this case you have 1 HP).

Well, unless you use the param1=0, param2=1, "which gives you immunity for all enchantment levels" like the PfMW does, the parameter2 being one, doesn't actually give immunity to all Enchantment levels, but to all magic -flagged weapons, which covers all the enchanted weapons.

[Ardanis]

There's no +1's, just enchantment level 1 and so forth, so you could actually be immune to levels 2, 3, 4, 5 and 7, while the rest kill you instantly(as in this case you have 1 HP).

 

You intend to argue with me about technical details? Immunity to +X renders the subject immune to any enchantment below X as well.

 

I've just checked it, and the Demon Lord is indeed immune to +3 weapons. For some reason I always thought it was referring to the one you kill for swirfneblins, who did die on +3 just fine. Which is why I wasn't 100% certain about higher enchantment immunity blocking lesser ones as well.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Immunity to +X renders the subject immune to any enchantment below X as well.

Ouh cheese, I think the description might need an update as what I took from it is apparently not true. That one cannot freely administer higher levels of it without effecting the lower ones.

[dunehunter]

Testing cloak of mirroring today, so the cloak will create an image mirror for the user whenever he is hitted, but there are some problems with the item, first of all, every time the user has an image on, the coming attack will 100% hit the image. Secondly, ranged attack can successfully 'kill' the image, while melee attack keeps hitting the image but don't kill it, which resulting that the user is invulnerable to melee attack.

 

There are other bugs like the charm spell of ring of human influence always targets the caster, silver sword can be used by paladin, glove of healing can only be used by paladin with no kits( maybe it is intended to be so).

[Demivrgvs]

Testing cloak of mirroring today, so the cloak will create an image mirror for the user whenever he is hitted, but there are some problems with the item, first of all, every time the user has an image on, the coming attack will 100% hit the image. Secondly, ranged attack can successfully 'kill' the image, while melee attack keeps hitting the image but don't kill it, which resulting that the user is invulnerable to melee attack.

Last time I tested it worked fine. Both melee and ranged attack have 50% chance to hit the image, and the latter constantly re-activate (both on hit and each round) because it s supposed to be a permanent feature (aka you should not see the image disappear).

 

- Are you sure your character is 100% invulnerable to melee?

- What do you mean by "ranged attack can successfully 'kill' the image"? You mean it works fine or that you see the image disappearing?

 

Does anyone else had similar issues? o.O

 

There are other bugs like the charm spell of ring of human influence always targets the caster, silver sword can be used by paladin, glove of healing can only be used by paladin with no kits( maybe it is intended to be so).

- I thought I already fixed the Ring of Human Influence targeting locally but it looks wrong again indeed. Nice catch.

- Silver Sword should not be usable by paladins indeed. Fixed.

- Gauntlets of Healing's description says True Paladin, aka non-kitted paladins, but we do discussed about removing the restriction.

[kreso]

 

Testing cloak of mirroring today, so the cloak will create an image mirror for the user whenever he is hitted, but there are some problems with the item, first of all, every time the user has an image on, the coming attack will 100% hit the image. Secondly, ranged attack can successfully 'kill' the image, while melee attack keeps hitting the image but don't kill it, which resulting that the user is invulnerable to melee attack.

Last time I tested it worked fine. Both melee and ranged attack have 50% chance to hit the image, and the latter constantly re-activate (both on hit and each round) because it s supposed to be a permanent feature (aka you should not see the image disappear).

 

- Are you sure your character is 100% invulnerable to melee?

- What do you mean by "ranged attack can successfully 'kill' the image"? You mean it works fine or that you see the image disappearing?

 

Does anyone else had similar issues? o.O

The first succesfull attack will always hit, since the trigger for the ability is "when struck".

Character isn't 100% melee invurnerable. It works fine.

If you wanna make it slightly better, change the trigger to "each round when attacked", this lets the cloak evade the first attack as well.

The thing is "each round when attacked" is also a bugged trigger, same as all 11 of them (I did test all these when tweaking KR berserker), and will return true for each attack made, regardless of the no. of attacks made that round, not only once as the description would state.

Interesting thing,using "each round when attacked" makes the first ranged attack always miss, and the first melee attack always hit (if the attack roll is succesfull ofc), regardless of weapon speed/initative/distance. Even at point blank range a bow weapon will always miss the first shot, and a two-handed sword will always hit for damage on the first blow.

Same thing applies to magic attacks, first one will never succeed.

If character wielding the cloak has magic resistance stopping the magic attack on him, image won't trigger at all.

[kreso]

Some further testing shows "melee invulnerability" happens if you use "when hit" trigger, which is used now.

P.S.

Some more testing shows that both "when struck" and "every round when attacked" make the wearer invurnerable to melee.

Possible solution is to add a "Protection from spell - clck26.spl" for a short time to the spell itself, that fixes it.

[Demivrgvs]

Cloak of Mirroring

Some further testing shows "melee invulnerability" happens if you use "when hit" trigger, which is used now.

P.S.

Some more testing shows that both "when struck" and "every round when attacked" make the wearer invurnerable to melee.

Possible solution is to add a "Protection from spell - clck26.spl" for a short time to the spell itself, that fixes it.

Oh my, why this engine never work as it should?!?

 

Mmm...but if you add a ProSpell(206) then you don't get the image on each and every attack as it should, am I wrong?

[kreso]

Mmm...but if you add a ProSpell(206) then you don't get the image on each and every attack as it should, am I wrong?

 

You're not wrong. However, only ranged attacks can "remove the image". It's permanent against melee for as long as attacks on the character having it equiped are made, and it avoids all melee attacks I'm afraid. Dunehunter is correct.

I didn't use this item much before since it (imo at least) completely screws up SCS AI (I did find a way around that however), but the way it works needs to be revised, that's for sure.

All this is hard to notice in game, since many times you get attacked by both ranged and melee weapons. If the image is destroyed via an arrow, next attack with a melee weapon will connect and do damage, triggering back the image, until next arrow destroys it etc.

In effect, whoever has this cloak can't be killed in melee combat unless he's being hit by arrows as well, which remove the image until the next attack is made.

Note that arrows hit in this manner:

1st HIT (damage, triggers image) - HIT (no damage, removes image) - HIT (damage, trigger image)......etc. ad infinitum.

Melee is different -

1stHIT (damage, triggers image) - HIT (no damage, triggers image) - HIT (no damage, triggers image) - HIT (no damage, triggers image) etc.

Only the first melee hit will succesfully hurt the wielder, all other melee attacks fail.

Given SCS never casts damaging spells against the wielder, I'd assume whoever has it is virtually unkillable if you give him Reflection Shield.

[Demivrgvs]

Cloak of Mirroring

@kreso, does all your findings mean that Mirror Image spell itself actually makes the character immune to melee attacks until all images are gone?

 

I still don't understand why ranged attacks work fine and melee ones do not, maybe it's about the "casting time" of the effect? Anyway, I'm at home modding the whole afternoon, I'll try to find an alternative solution.

[kreso]

Cloak of Mirroring

@kreso, does all your findings mean that Mirror Image spell itself actually makes the character immune to melee attacks until all images are gone?

 

I still don't understand why ranged attacks work fine and melee ones do not, maybe it's about the "casting time" of the effect? Anyway, I'm at home modding the whole afternoon, I'll try to find an alternative solution.

Melee attacks apperantly destroy the image if it exists (i.e. they're always succesfull on the first attack, when no image is active) but they instantly create a new image, which prevents next attack from hitting, and this happens permanently afterwards unless image duration expires.

Ranged attacks don't create a new image in this manner - they remove the exisiting one instead (always).

There's no "random" chance of getting hit - if there's no image, character takes damage and creates an image. That image fully prevents melee attacks, and stops one ranged attack which will destroy him, making the character vulnerable to one attack, either ranged ot melee (doesn't matter, since the image is gone).

I think you could make this work (I need to test it, but can't for the next hour or so) by

- making the spell trigger "each round when attacked" - this will make 1st attack always miss btw, but the alternative is that 1st attack always hits (character needs to be "hit" now)

- image should last shorter

- 206 needs to be added to the spell, which duration I don't know yet.

 

Let me know if you want me to try this out, I'm fairly certain a decent solution can be found.

[kreso]

Got it.

Unbelivable, but true:

IF the difficulty slider is set to "easiest" (I did this since I had Sarevok bashing my PC to avoid Deathbringer assault when starting to test this) melee attacks never do damage, they always hit the image.

Setting the difficulty to Core makes the character vulnerable again...... ; thus no tweaks are needed.

It's now official - this game is insane.

 

P.S.

Disregard any of my posts above, "easiest" difficulty setting apperantly has it's own ruleset.

[Demivrgvs]

Cloak of Mirroring

Got it.

Unbelivable, but true:

IF the difficulty slider is set to "easiest" (I did this since I had Sarevok bashing my PC to avoid Deathbringer assault when starting to test this) melee attacks never do damage, they always hit the image.

Setting the difficulty to Core makes the character vulnerable again...... ; thus no tweaks are needed.

It's now official - this game is insane.

 

P.S.

Disregard any of my posts above, "easiest" difficulty setting apperantly has it's own ruleset.

LOL, though I don't like that the difficulty slider has the potential to make this cloak completely broken.

 

On a side note, does this mean the original Mirror Image spell is pretty much a Stoneskin on steroids when playing on easy difficulty? o.O