IR v3 Feedback

[kreso]

Note that as soon as Arda and Mike are ready with their stuff I'd prefer to release IR as it is rather than delaying it for relatively small changes, thus any change from now on might have to be part of a later release (we may have to have one anyway to update non-english languages) unless it's something with a large consensus that I can easily squeeze in without interfering with their stuff.

 

Please, do not postpone new release for these tweaks! I'd be happy with Revised Armors/Critical hit aversion tweak

 

 

Karajah's Armor -

was it the +2 DEX being too high? If yes, my point remains that leather armor is a pretty bad armor type, and if I lower the DEX bonus I think this armor would have almost zero appeal. Am I wrong?

It's too weak as it is, and it has zero appeal even now

 

Prismatic Chain -

can't you just use Bladesinger Chain instead? Or wait for KR to make bards cast spells while wearing armors.

I can, but I like those funky colours which suit a bard.

 

Deep Guardian Plate -

mmm... I need to think about it, mostly because I don't have better ideas right now. Just a daring thought...if this wasn't a heavy plate armor (which has indeed to compete with full plates) but for example a splint mail, would it look better for classes restricted to medium armors such as Barbarians or KR's Wizard Slayer?

This is an exellent idea. Just be sure to rename it if you go that route.

 

Helm of Glory/Darkness -

. Are you saying that SR makes your party move around with Bless upon them all day long, 100% of times, without anyone ever dispelling it? If yes I fear I need to reduce duration of SR's spell! :/

Yes. I always have at least 2 memorized, so I can clear a BG1 map without resting and under constant Bless.

 

Robe of x (fire,acid, cold) resistance -

now that ToBEx is more established, even more so with BGEE, I think we could try making these robes add +x% damage to fire/cold/electrical/acid damaging spells cast while wearing them. My only issue with that is that I don't know if such effect works (it should), and if it stacks. The latter could be a problem when KR's Evoker will be out because I planned such kit to get this damage boost by default.

It does work, and I have no problems with it stacking - if Invoker is to use this robe, he looses out on Larloch's.

 

Robe of the Weave -

I think this is just a matter of tastes and/or playing style.

Guess so...

 

Axe of Unyielding -

I can be persuaded to boost its regen a little bit yes.

Yey for Korgan!

 

Belt of Inertial Barrier -

what do you say about removing the full slow effect and replace it with a lesser variant? We could have it reduce movement rate, maybe reduce thaco too, but not halve apr nor double casting time (the latter is something Slow spell itself should not do imo).

Another good idea.

 

Boots of Speed -

my hands are tied on this. I can assure you most players would kill me for removing these uber classic speed enhancing boots.

I know.

 

Wave Halberd -

Smashing Wave's AoE could be tweaked up to 10' if the animation still suits it, does it? Slaying fire creatures won't have its huge -4 penalty anymore.

Cool. Can you think of something other than ADHW immunity (even tough it suits it)?

Short Sword of the Mask -

may I ask why you would restrict it to thieves?

It's brokenly good on fighter-mages and Blades.

[DrAzTiK]

Karajah's Armor -

Very interressing item in BG1 for a thief.

+ 2 dex increase your overall thief skills by 40-50 %,, increase AC and thac0/damage for ranged weapons.

What do you want more ?

 

Helm of Glory/Darkness -

Yes. I always have at least 2 memorized, so I can clear a BG1 map without resting and under constant Bless.

 

With SCS, the value of undispellable effect providing by items is precious, even for a low level spells like bless.

 

 

Btw, what is the plan about the overpowed shield amulet ?

[velehal]

Belt of Inertial Barrier - what do you say about removing the full slow effect and replace it with a lesser variant? We could have it reduce movement rate, maybe reduce thaco too, but not halve apr nor double casting time (the latter is something Slow spell itself should not do imo).

 

I agree. Now the Belt is one of the best items in the whole game. Slow is very powerful effect and IIRC even liches are affected by it. And it is possible to obtain the belt very quickly without any really difficult fight/quest (the Trademeet quest is doable right after leaving Irenicus´prison even when SCS is installed)

[kreso]

Karajah's Armor

Very interressing item in BG1 for a thief.

+ 2 dex increase your overall thief skills by 40-50 %,, increase AC and thac0/damage for ranged weapons.

What do you want more ?

Dexterity does not increase damage. Thieves have quite enough help in BG1 already (potions of all kinds, Stealth ring, Stealth Boots, and a Stealth armor which only thieves can use). I can imagine a single NPC who could in some crazy theory wear this (Tiax) but other than that, no. Leather is very bad vs missiles which, in turn, are so prominent in BG1 that wearing any kind of leather will cost you.

 

Helm of Glory/Darkness -

With SCS, the value of undispellable effect providing by items is precious, even for a low level spells like bless.

Even if I agree with the importance of "indispellable effects" within SCS, looking at the much better alternatives (Charm protection, Blindness immunity, Balduran, Defense, all available prior/easier to this helmet) this is redundant, apart from +1 charisma to reduce buying prices.

I'd use it if it applied Aid instead.

[DrAzTiK]

Dexterity does not increase damage. Thieves have quite enough help in BG1 already

I use Karajah's Armor for Montaron (assassin). +50% to thief skills is very precious in Bg1, especially for assassin. It is indisputable ( even if I play with play with twice lessXP )

Potions are expensive, and if you can save up some potions thanks to an item, why not.

 

AC is almost irrelevant for pure thiefs, so stealth Armor looks less appealing for me.

 

Also add +1thac0/ranged weapons and +2 saves vs breath and Karajah's Armor is a no brain choice for many chacracters.

[kreso]

+50% to thief skills is very precious in Bg1, especially for assassin.

+2 DEX isn't +50% to thief skills. It's +10 for all apart Detect Illusions, which doesn't depend on DEX. Given that you took an Assassin as an example;

 

Move Silently is the only skill which actually matters for stealth feature - Hide in Shadows only affects your chance to become hidden, not stay hidden. Putting any points here is moot, since Move Silently covers both of them in a single ability.

Pick pockets of a decent value is unobtainable for Assassin anyway if he's your only thief in BG1, and that one single thing worth pickpocketing in BG1 (if you don't steal Drizzt's weapons, which is crazy) is obtainable in a different way.

Same goes for setting traps.

What this armor in reality gives to assassin Monty is a 10% better chance to become and stay invisible, 10% boost to thieving skills of Open Locks and Find Traps, +1 extra dexterity bonus to AC, +2 vs Breath and +1 ranged THAC0.

+1 AC from dexterity is indeed useless - you have much better armor available.

Since you'll probably have a mage/bard, open locks score is irrelevant (altough convinient, but I wouldn't bother with Assassin).

So, what Monty's left with is 10% better Stealth (you may as well retry if it fails, or, much better, cast Invisibility spell/potion/use boots, ring or Shadow armor, and increase chance by staying in shadows) and 10% in Find Traps, which is actually the one single skill Monty needs points in - given thieves' fast level progression, you may not even see a trap worth disarming prior to obtaining 100 in Disarm traps.

 

Potions are expensive, and if you can save up some potions thanks to an item, why not.

I don't think I ever bought a Thievery potion in BG1...even with Imoen level 4 thief/mage. They're all around the place. In addition, skill checks on Open Lock/Disarm Trap are generally much easier than BG2. You'll find "hard" traps only in Durlag's tower, which is filled with such potions anyway.

 

AC is almost irrelevant for pure thiefs

I have quite the opposite belief about this, for the same reason I use Stalkers with shields.

Then again, if you can make this armor useful, great. For me, it's way behind the alternatives - Shadow, Studded+2, Protector of the Second; even Studded+1 is better for BG1 in terms of sheer AC protection.

[Salk]

While I agree with kreso's analysis about Karajah's Armor, I wouldn't call it useless and I find it rather balanced the way it is. In BG1, IR's Karajah's Armor is still a solid choice as Leather (non Studded) Armor.

[kreso]

Karajah's Armor - it just struck me - it's actually quite ok for Avenger druids, which are limited to Leather per default, and do benefit (at least with SR) from +2 to Breath save and dexterity bonus.

[DrAzTiK]

Potion of magic dispelling :

 

Maybe I am missing something but I don't see how this potion can be really usefull considering you cannot use it to dispell most of incapacitating effects (charm, hold, stun, confuse). I would never use this potion to remove slow/disease/deaf/blind on a character under ton of buffs.

 

Berserking sword+3 get a masterwork weapon skin in my game.

 

 

The price of wands is still intriguing me, I mean : 30 000 po for a wand of paralysation (10 charges) O_o.

 

I like your changes about robe of neutral/evil/good archimage but as Kreso said, most of standard mage robes are not very appealing. I always use only traveler robe considering movement is ofen the key to survive.

 

 

Ranged Axe/hammer : I would lower even more the range (at least15) considering these weapons are very/very/very too much/much convenient for fighter. (having grandmastery in a single weapon allow you to be the king of melee/range fights)

.

 

Dual Wielding Changes for Light and Heavy Weapons (*)

I am not sure : are mace and morning stars considering like heavy weapons? medium weapons?

[kreso]

Potion of magic dispelling :

Maybe I am missing something but I don't see how this potion can be really usefull considering you cannot use it to dispell most of incapacitating effects (charm, hold, stun, confuse). I would never use this potion to remove slow/disease/deaf/blind on a character under ton of buffs.

I guess you can use it to remove Malison, but it is quite weak as it is, I agree. Perhaps if it could be thrown.....

[F-man]

Potion of magic dispelling :

 

If I remember correctly, this done because original potion was OP but RR AI needed potion with dispel effect so that was the end result.

 

Berserking sword+3:

 

You may have mod that installed that changes appearance of cursed items.

 

Dual Wielding Changes for Light and Heavy Weapons (*):

 

They are listed in readme.

[Demivrgvs]

Potion of Magic Dispelling

As F-man says, the current potion is the result of vanilla's one being ridiculously OP and RR's scripts relying on its dispelling feature (e.g. to get rid of insect spells - which btw, should not be dispellable imo).

 

Maybe I am missing something but I don't see how this potion can be really usefull considering you cannot use it to dispell most of incapacitating effects (charm, hold, stun, confuse). I would never use this potion to remove slow/disease/deaf/blind on a character under ton of buffs.

I admit its uses are somewhat limited (as stated above, it's not completely my fault) but removing those effects on a non-buffed characters can still be helpful, and getting rid of things like Doom, "negative" Chant, Malison or similar debuffs might be crucial to survive an encounter against high level mages who rely on save-or-else spells.

 

Berserking Sword+3

get a masterwork weapon skin in my game.

This is surely not caused by IR.

 

Wands

The price of wands is still intriguing me, I mean : 30 000 po for a wand of paralysation (10 charges) O_o.

Wands are expensive on purpose (because else they would quickly become extremely OP, especially within BG1), but 30k is indeed insane. I guess this is caused by the combination of me raising the base price of the items, and then Arda making stores selling at higher prices. We'll try to sort this out.

 

Robes

I like your changes about robe of neutral/evil/good archimage but as Kreso said, most of standard mage robes are not very appealing. I always use only traveler robe considering movement is ofen the key to survive.

I'm indeed aware that the Robes of Resistances aren't so great, even after V3's boost. Mostly it's all because I tried to not change their name, else I could have easily found more interesting concepts for them. I'll surely do something about them in the near future.

 

I kinda expected the Traveler's Robe to be a "fan favorite" because of its movement rate bonus, but I do think Knave's Robe is great. Backstabs are not so common, but mages are extremely vulnerable to them and they can easily be 1hk against them, thus having this immunity can be a real life saver (maybe even more for AI mages). That being said, what I consider most valuable is the boost to saves vs. death, which are by far the weakest ones for mages. I do agree instead that Adventurer's Robe isn't much appealing (I have high hopes about ToBEx concentration tweak but never found much feedback on it), and I do need to do something about it (e.g. it's a candidate to be one of very few selected items to provide immunity against critical hits once the relative tweak is out).

 

Ranged Axe/hammer

I would lower even more the range (at least15) considering these weapons are very/very/very too much/much convenient for fighter. (having grandmastery in a single weapon allow you to be the king of melee/range fights)

The real problem here is that launchers should have much more range. I'd like to hear more opinions on this matter before reducing it even more (I lowered it from 30 to 20) because while I guess range 15 could still have its uses, it might indeed look a very short range. Mmm...

[DrAzTiK]

Berserking sword+3:

 

You may have mod that installed that changes appearance of cursed items.

Yep, the "problem" come from item randomizer component.

 

 

I'm indeed aware that the Robes of Resistances aren't so great, even after V3's boost. Mostly it's all because I tried to not change their name, else I could have easily found more interesting concepts for them. I'll surely do something about them in the near future.

 

Maybe just increase elemental resistance to 100% ? After all, theses robes don't provide bonus to AC so...

 

Knave's Robe

Not a bad item but mages have plenty way to face against backtap (mirror image/stonesskin/invisibility/flee with traveler robe ) Maybe this robe is interressing for fighter/mage. (who ofen have buff dispelled)

 

 

 

The real problem here is that launchers should have much more range. I'd like to hear more opinions on this matter before reducing it even more (I lowered it from 30 to 20) because while I guess range 15 could still have its uses, it might indeed look a very short range. Mmm...

 

Well, surely we can't trow an axe as far as bolts/arrows.

I suggested range 15 but I think it should be lower (considering we don't increase the overall range of lunchers). Sling/dart/dagger should also have a drastic lower range in compaison to bows/Xbows.

[kreso]

Robes

name='Demivrgvs' timestamp='1385379134' post='216565']

I kinda expected the Traveler's Robe to be a "fan favorite" because of its movement rate bonus

Well, you know my opinion on different movement rates - I hate it, for all it's usefulness.

 

thus having this immunity can be a real life saver (maybe even more for AI mages).

It can, especially within BG1.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Potion of Magic Dispelling

As F-man says, the current potion is the result of vanilla's one being ridiculously OP and RR's scripts relying on its dispelling feature (e.g. to get rid of insect spells - which btw, should not be dispellable imo).

Why not, no one said the potion was actually ingested, as you can very well get similar effect with bug spray ...