IR v3 Feedback

[yarpen]

The possibilities BG2:EE grants are huge.

They even let you manipulate with friggin caster level of Turn Undead now.

I'm afraid the new effects could be so huge, IR would require... revision lol.

[kreso]

The possibilities BG2:EE grants are huge.

They even let you manipulate with friggin caster level of Turn Undead now.

I'm afraid the new effects could be so huge, IR would require... revision lol.

I tought about this as well, and truthfully, I'd like Revisions to stay true to it's call - low key changes without drastic gameplay changes and full compatibility with the original game. EE is good (really good, it's the new kits/equipment what's broken in it), but my guess is many people will stick to the original game, moreover since many good mods will probably never be made compatible. Besides, ToBEx provides so many possibilities already. I don't think making two IR mods ("Enhanced IR" and "Original IR") is a feasible solution.

Just release the new version and my guess is all will be happy

[Cahir]

Yeah, Demi release the kraken

 

Item Revisions and Spell Revisions are one of the few mods I'm waiting for, before starting a well anticipated BGEE + BG2EE run. I don't think Kit Revisions will go out soon enough, but hey, one never know.

 

What I'm really (I mean REALLY) interested in, is something called Quest Revisions (?), that IIRC Arda brought up few times. Betatesting BG2EE revealed to me painfully, that many vanilla quests badly need some revision/overhaul/enhancement. This would truly be a dream comes true for me.

Few examples just out of my head

- Hidden Twisted Rune Compound - this just begs for major ToB enhancement (Shangalar is just one of TR's secret overseers). Maybe an excuse to create a proper dracolich?

- Hidden Compound in Temple district - could be something around that fabled katana (I don't recall a name), it's unique and powerful enough to write some plot for it.

- Korgan's hunt for Book of Kaza - I always felt that this quest is too short and too plain. This book really should have some powers (maybe make it something like the evil book in Planescape Torment, the one from which you can learn some nasty spells).

- Edwin's Nether Scroll - there were more than one nether scrolls, maybe a hunt for another one? I don't think Edwin is a type, who takes failures easily.

- Solamnic Knights trapped in Faerun - I always felt that it would be extremely fun, if there would be one quest solution, that accidentally throws your party way to Krynn for a while. Finding solution to go back would pleases me enormously

 

But these examples are just a tip of an iceberg, you see. That's why this Quests Revision thingy would be a true gem.

 

Eh, man can dream.

[yarpen]

Why in the hell would anyone opt to play original BG2 except of current Revision mods (and first month after release when game is still bugged as hell)?

The exact moment Demi will release his mods tuned for EE will be the exact moment I'll never ever look again at original BG2.

[Cahir]

Yarpen has a valid point, but on the other hand there are still many players and communities/clans, that are strictly attached to good old vanilla experience (I know one Polish forum for example, where a mere mention of EE is a risky business ).

I know I would stick with EE, that's for sure. All bugs will be squished eventually, most if not all mods will be converted, new DLC's will be out (maybe even something that officially connects BGEE and BG2EE, I hope). And maybe, for most important, with all those things that were externalized, more and more new modders will pop up and make new splendid adventures.

 

I think EE will defend itself one way or another, especially if modders themselves will get along with new edition.

[kreso]

For as long as (at very least) Ascension isn't available, I have zero intention of playing EE2 - all it's new features can't remotely come close to Ascension finale, tyvm.

And I wouldn't go so far to say that the original is already "obsolete". Ironskins casting time=9. Doom casting time - 9. Ffs.... At least I can fix this is in original. Boots of Speed 4x hasted speed - implemented. All of the wrong things in Fixpack are made core in EE....and it isn't as "user-friendly" as original game. There you had a stable working base which you could tweak/mold to your preference. Here you have a base which is broken itself.

They didn't implement any of Refinements features, which is a real shame - Monks still share HLAs with fighters, which in turn, makes them completely non-interesting for me.

There are tons of things for which I'd still play original over EE.

Luckily, at least SCS/RR is already available regarding the mods I always install.

And truth to be said, installing 1PP, GUI and few NPCs/Kits/Quests on original is very close, if not better, than what you get with EE (I never got into games which emphasise graphics over game content itself).

Still bought it, however.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Why

Well, money... it's the thing that runs the world.

But there are several other factors, like ... the Total Conversion mods.

 

For as long as (at very least) Ascension isn't available, I have zero intention of playing EE2 - all it's new features can't remotely come close to Ascension finale, tyvm.

And did you try to install the mod with updated weidu.exe to BG II EE ? It could work, basically, have not tried, and won't for a while. And there's also the BP's Ascension..

[kreso]

For as long as (at very least) Ascension isn't available, I have zero intention of playing EE2 - all it's new features can't remotely come close to Ascension finale, tyvm.

And did you try to install the mod with updated weidu.exe to BG II EE ? It could work, basically, have not tried, and won't for a while. And there's also the BP's Ascension..

Ummm.....would this really work, that easy?

[Jarno Mikkola]

Ummm.....would this really work, that easy?

Well, Horred said he has been testing the BG II EE, and I would assume he did try his own mod too. But you never know for sure unless you try it yourself.

And I know the iiSpellSystemAdjustment mod of mine works perfectly with the EE games with the updated weidu.exe as a fiend of mine tried it.

[yarpen]

But there are several other factors, like ... the Total Conversion mods.

On this case problem solved, as Revision mods aren't that much compatible with those.

 

(I know one Polish forum for example, where a mere mention of EE is a risky business ).

For the first month or two, sure. I actually don't consider buying it now - but after a patch or two? Hell sure. Just look at what happened to BG1EE which was nearly unplayable at the beginning.

Also, remember we are all polish - bitching on everything is our bread and butter.

 

And I wouldn't go so far to say that the original is already "obsolete". Ironskins casting time=9. Doom casting time - 9. Ffs.... At least I can fix this is in original. Boots of Speed 4x hasted speed - implemented. All of the wrong things in Fixpack are made core in EE....and it isn't as "user-friendly" as original game. There you had a stable working base which you could tweak/mold to your preference. Here you have a base which is broken itself.

They didn't implement any of Refinements features, which is a real shame - Monks still share HLAs with fighters, which in turn, makes them completely non-interesting for me.

DUDE IT WAS OUT FOR 2 DAYS.

You are comparing 10 years legacy with something being out for 2 days. Don't be irrational.

Look at what they did with BG1EE (again). At first it was unplayable piece of crap. Now, it's really cool.

 

And sooner or later most of your favorite mods will get there. That's why we are talking here about OUR FAVOURITE mod getting in there and using all the possibilities platform grants as the possibilities are endless.

[kreso]

DUDE IT WAS OUT FOR 2 DAYS.

Remember when the original game was out for 2 days? Nobody complained...

 

You are comparing 10 years legacy with something being out for 2 days. Don't be irrational.

Exactly - one learns from 10 years of exprience. It's out for 2 days, but it stands on the shoulders of giants - both the original game and a whole lot of high-quality mods are here for years...

 

Look at what they did with BG1EE (again). At first it was unplayable piece of crap. Now, it's really cool.

Eh....it needs Revisions.

I want my 2-handed sword with 2d6 damage, I want nerfed Stupefier, I want nerfed Dwarven Defender and I want those damn Monks moving like everybody else, and I want Emotion spell not so imbalanced as it is.

Oh, and Sarevok with the ability to see invisible creatures wouldn't hurt either.

[Jarno Mikkola]

But there are several other factors, like ... the Total Conversion mods.

On this case problem solved, as Revision mods aren't that much compatible with those.

Well, duh, I wasn't talking about the Revision mods at all...

But say, is that: "We can't make the IR compatible with CA" -comment ? In which case you are totally wrong.

 

I want my 2-handed sword with 2d6 damage, I want nerfed Stupefier, I want nerfed Dwarven Defender and I want those damn Monks moving like everybody else, and I want Emotion spell not so imbalanced as it is.

Erhm, you can do those easily with NearInfinity ...

[Salk]

I wouldn't even consider playing BG:EE (which I bought) and BG II:EE untill a BGT-compatible version is out. And even then, I'd need to have other mods that I always use be 100% compatible too. I don't know when and if this will ever happen.

[kreso]

Here's a list of items I find either too weak or too powerful, or just in need of tweaking:

 

Karajah's Armor - as noted before

Armor of Missile Attraction - with the prevalence of missiles being shot at you in BG1, wearing this will only get you killed. In BG2,

it's useless.

Aeger's Hide - berserking is a no-go for anyone apart KR Berserker (even he has troubles survivng it!)

Prismatic Chain - this is neat, but I always wanted this to be usable by Bards

Crimson Chain - same as Aeger's Hide. I once equiped this on Anomen, and he got killed in the very next battle while berserking.

At best, it's very conditional.

Deep Guardian Plate - immunity to level 1 and 2 spells is neat, but the drawback (immunity to your own spells) is too much for me, in addition, by Underdark, you'll have more than enough much better Plates

Helm of Glory/Darkness - Bless effect is neat without SR, but with SR Bless is long-lasting so this effect is obsolete even in BG1

Robe of x (fire,acid, cold) resistance - I never wear these

Robe of the Weave - flat out looses compared to Battlemage and the one with caster level bonus, not to mention Larloch's. Mages simply have no use for MR imo.

Axe of Unyielding - regen is too slow. It's a nice weapon (vorpal and all) but wouldn't pick it over Long swords/Flails/Maces, or anything else for that matter. 1HP/round for +4 version, 1HP/2 rounds for +3?

 

Belt of Inertial Barrier - this is hands-down the best belt in game. Perhaps nerfing it wouldn't be a bad idea...it does make Slow spell pretty obsolete, in addition to other bonuses.

Boots of Speed - I tweak these myself to +1 AC, +2 Breath saves - any movement speed bonus + Haste equals broken

Wave Halberd - as much as I like the "immunity to ADHW" concept AI doesn't handle it. It's "smashing wave" AoE is too small to be of any use, and it's ability to instantly kill fire-based creatures is a bit OP.

Short Sword of the Mask - this should be usable strictly by thieves

Soul Reaver - way too weak. Given that you'll be getting Vorpal upon exiting Underdark, this weapon has no real purpose - it's slow so it can barely hit mages (which are prone to failing the save). Against warriors, it's no good - even if they fail the save, level drain isn't nearly as harmful. Just can't compete with Vorpal, Psion, Warblade, or even Lirarcor.

[Demivrgvs]

Here's a list of items I find either too weak or too powerful, or just in need of tweaking:

Note that as soon as Arda and Mike are ready with their stuff I'd prefer to release IR as it is rather than delaying it for relatively small changes, thus any change from now on might have to be part of a later release (we may have to have one anyway to update non-english languages) unless it's something with a large consensus that I can easily squeeze in without interfering with their stuff.

 

That being said...

 

Karajah's Armor - was it the +2 DEX being too high? If yes, my point remains that leather armor is a pretty bad armor type, and if I lower the DEX bonus I think this armor would have almost zero appeal. Am I wrong?

Armor of Missile Attraction - point taken, but I don't have much better ideas and using it with Gloves of Missile Snaring or Reflection Shield turns it into a decent armor which provides missile protection for the rest of the party.

Aeger's Hide - well, I do said I needed feedback on this matter. I suppose we can remove the "berserking" part.

Prismatic Chain - can't you just use Bladesinger Chain instead? Or wait for KR to make bards cast spells while wearing armors.

Crimson Chain - same as Aeger's Hide.

Deep Guardian Plate - mmm... I need to think about it, mostly because I don't have better ideas right now. Just a daring thought...if this wasn't a heavy plate armor (which has indeed to compete with full plates) but for example a splint mail, would it look better for classes restricted to medium armors such as Barbarians or KR's Wizard Slayer?

Helm of Glory/Darkness - well, point taken, but it's still a permanent and not-dispellable version of Bless. Are you saying that SR makes your party move around with Bless upon them all day long, 100% of times, without anyone ever dispelling it? If yes I fear I need to reduce duration of SR's spell! :/

Robe of x (fire,acid, cold) resistance - now that ToBEx is more established, even more so with BGEE, I think we could try making these robes add +x% damage to fire/cold/electrical/acid damaging spells cast while wearing them. My only issue with that is that I don't know if such effect works (it should), and if it stacks. The latter could be a problem when KR's Evoker will be out because I planned such kit to get this damage boost by default.

Robe of the Weave - I think this is just a matter of tastes and/or playing style. I had other players claiming the opposite, as well as claiming that Battlemage Robe is useless. You might not find use for its high mr resistance, but others players might. For example, give it to Aerie while wielding the SotM or other mr boosting items, and even without casting Magic Resistance spell you can reach sky high mr values quite easily.

Axe of Unyielding - I can be persuaded to boost its regen a little bit yes.

 

Belt of Inertial Barrier - what do you say about removing the full slow effect and replace it with a lesser variant? We could have it reduce movement rate, maybe reduce thaco too, but not halve apr nor double casting time (the latter is something Slow spell itself should not do imo).

Boots of Speed - my hands are tied on this. I can assure you most players would kill me for removing these uber classic speed enhancing boots.

Wave Halberd - Smashing Wave's AoE could be tweaked up to 10' if the animation still suits it, does it? Slaying fire creatures won't have its huge -4 penalty anymore.

Short Sword of the Mask - may I ask why you would restrict it to thieves?

Soul Reaver - I do have a nice little surprise for this.