IR v3 Feedback

[kreso]

On a side note, does this mean the original Mirror Image spell is pretty much a Stoneskin on steroids when playing on easy difficulty? o.O

Yup. There's no chance to hit someone through them until they're all gone.

Somewhat related, a proposed change for SR - AoE attacks (Fireball, Chain Ligtning etc.) can; and imo should, completely destroy the images. Just make Blur a non-illusion spell (it can be envisioned as a mage constantly "blurring" himself), and make AoE spells remove illusionary protections up to level 2. Or use a custom sec type for MI which is removed by all AoE spells.

Besides, Invisibility spells are borderline broken in BG anyway, since enemies can't exactly "hear" footsteps and similar stuff.

SCS mages usually use Globes and similar protections anyway, so no harm done to the AI.

P.S.

Since the flag to bypass MI isn't in EE, imo this would be perfect.

[Salk]

Also, I do not think you should be particularly bothered by how IR performs at the extremes of the difficulty slider, especially the easiest setting.

[dunehunter]

For melee invulnerabile, I mean: 1) when there is reflected image on the wearer, melee attack will always hit the image; 2) *and* tho the dice show the attack hit, the image not vanish, so melee hitter keeps hitting the image.

 

Tested today on different difficulty, its so surprising that each difficulty has its own ruleset O.o. But since I am playing on core, its ok for me .

 

And about the new version, will there be further more balance actions? For example the Ring of Djinni Summoning is just overpowered IMO, its like a one-day per instant casting time-stop to me. And Grandmaster's Armor +5 grant user +1 attack per round, since in later game AC is not that important, IMO +1 attack per round with no penalty for an armour is just too good even in the later game.

 

For equipment that add strength, to tell the truth I really like the orignal ones, the new ones makes the starting game a bit easier( with Mauler's Arm +1 you can get 20 str as soon as you leave the dungeon, which is only like 6000 gp to buy ). But I cant let low str NPC to have nice output since the new equipments cant let them reach 18 str .

[Demivrgvs]

And about the new version, will there be further more balance actions?

Yep. I'm compiling a bigger than expected list of suggested changes that may be included very soon during the beta.

 

Ring of Djinni Summoning

For example the Ring of Djinni Summoning is just overpowered IMO, its like a one-day per instant casting time-stop to me.

Afaik Time Stop can only be used once per game with Limited Wish, not 1/day. That being said, I'm open to suggestions for improving this item, especially because I don't like a ring to perform like a wand.

 

Grandmaster's Armor

Grandmaster's Armor +5 grant user +1 attack per round, since in later game AC is not that important, IMO +1 attack per round with no penalty for an armour is just too good even in the later game.

Mmm... It's a permanent +1 apr yes, but it doesn't stack with any other form of Haste. Between Potion of Speed, Haste and Improved Haste characters not wearing this armor can easily get hasted while using other armors. I'd like to hear more opinions on this matter, but on paper this armor looks really great but not OP. Am I wrong?

 

On a side note, I think AC still matters even at ToB levels with IR.

 

STR adding items

For equipment that add strength, to tell the truth I really like the orignal ones, the new ones makes the starting game a bit easier( with Mauler's Arm +1 you can get 20 str as soon as you leave the dungeon, which is only like 6000 gp to buy ). But I cant let low str NPC to have nice output since the new equipments cant let them reach 18 str

The latter is pretty much the intended goal: make STR requirements actually matters, and prevent base stats from becoming almost irrelevant.

 

When it comes to Mauler's Arm in particular, "reaching STR 20" with it is perfectly fine imo. You get insane STR yes, but you are stuck with a plain +1 weapon with no other special feature. Raw dmg output is all it offers. I actually feared it wasn't appealing enough, but this is another example of why feedback is crucial.

[Dakk]

I'm fine with Mauler's Arm, and IR adding [stat] instead of setting is one of the changes I like the most in the entire mod!

[kreso]

I don't ever use either Mauler's Arm nor Grandmaster armor. There's a ton of better off-hand weapons (I don't think that the difference in between 18/90 str and 20 str is that big of a deal, especially early on when apr is low and low-level disable spells do wonders) than Mauler, and Grandmaster comes so late that both Haste and Improved Haste are very cheap spells by then. In addition, it's not a "real" haste effect, but it prevents "real" Haste from working.

+1 apr in ToB is imo nothing. 20-30 more damage per round to 200+ HP Fire Giants.

[dunehunter]

I don't ever use either Mauler's Arm nor Grandmaster armor. There's a ton of better off-hand weapons (I don't think that the difference in between 18/90 str and 20 str is that big of a deal, especially early on when apr is low and low-level disable spells do wonders) than Mauler, and Grandmaster comes so late that both Haste and Improved Haste are very cheap spells by then. In addition, it's not a "real" haste effect, but it prevents "real" Haste from working.

+1 apr in ToB is imo nothing. 20-30 more damage per round to 200+ HP Fire Giants.

Ha if it's conflict with haste spell, that makes more sense, and wanna report another bug today, its about horn of bursting, anyone find this item doesn't work?

[Dakk]

In addition, it's not a "real" haste effect, but it prevents "real" Haste from working.

Is that WAD, Demi?

[Demivrgvs]

Horn of Blasting

...wanna report another bug today, its about horn of bursting, anyone find this item doesn't work?

Files seem fine and afaik the item worked fine, we'll check it again in-game.

 

Grandmaster Armor

 

In addition, it's not a "real" haste effect, but it prevents "real" Haste from working.

Is that WAD, Demi?

 

I cannot hide anything from Kreso. Most players would never notice the difference, but while the armor grants all the effects of a haste spell (SR's version) it isn't really using haste opcode itself. I don't remember anymore but I think I opted for this solution because of one or more of the following things:

- problematic interaction with slow opcode (e.g. Slow spell forcing to re-equip the armor)

- I wanted to avoid all the issues caused by haste on repeating EFFs, poison, etc.

- the resulting animation is more fluid

- freedom to slightly customize the haste-like effect if necessary

[dunehunter]

Hello Demi, a short question about the two-handed sword harbinger +3, it seems its combat ability 'banish' doesn't works on creature that is 'gated' like summon fiend, gate and etc, is it supposed to be so? But seems this weapon is designed for killing these creatures, so any thought on making the banish affects those gated demons?

And i find the +4 dam from starmetal does not affect fiends ether, i think they are both extraplanar creature and demons, right? (tested on a Nabassu, checked with no slash resistance, and my main character, with +2 dam from weapon pro, +1 dam from two-handed weapon style, +6 from str, +8 from demon bane, +4 from starmetal(supposed to be), +1 from weapon enchant, + 1~10 from weapon, so the minium dam is 23, but min dam is 19.)

Btw I can play IR with ATweaks, the PnP fiends looks really funny, modified fiends will attends to gate more lower ones to help them, makes battle more challenging.

[dunehunter]

Horn of Blasting

...wanna report another bug today, its about horn of bursting, anyone find this item doesn't work?

Files seem fine and afaik the item worked fine, we'll check it again in-game.

 

Grandmaster Armor

 

In addition, it's not a "real" haste effect, but it prevents "real" Haste from working.

Is that WAD, Demi?

 

I cannot hide anything from Kreso. Most players would never notice the difference, but while the armor grants all the effects of a haste spell (SR's version) it isn't really using haste opcode itself. I don't remember anymore but I think I opted for this solution because of one or more of the following things:

- problematic interaction with slow opcode (e.g. Slow spell forcing to re-equip the armor)

- I wanted to avoid all the issues caused by haste on repeating EFFs, poison, etc.

- the resulting animation is more fluid

- freedom to slightly customize the haste-like effect if necessary

 

 

I used DLTCEP to changed the projectile of spell 'dvsburst' from using Pro '278-dvsburst' to '38-fireball' and the item works fine for me now

[Demivrgvs]

Harbinger
Multiple "bonus dmg vs. creature-type" do not stack (e.g. Dragonslayer and MoD bane-like feature did not worked with vanilla's Cavalier and Undead Hunter innate bonuses against those creatures). Harbinger is "only" +8 vs. demons (not +12), while starmetal's +4 works against all other non-demon extraplanar creatures such as celestials, rakshasas, and elementals.

 

Edit: I forgot to answer to the Banishing effect not working against gated creatures. It is intentional, but I'm open to discuss it.

 

Horn of Blasting

I'll re-do the projectile maybe, no idea why it's not working on your install, it worked fine on mine.

[janoha]

Thoughts on Spellcasting in Armor

 

I would like to make some comments on this component of IR, specifically Option 2 (Speed penalties for Arcane Casters).

While I love the possibility for a multiclass mage or bard to equip armor, I believe the current penalties are much too severe and makes it simply a bad decision to use armor instead of robes.

I believe Spell Casting Speed to be *the* single most important stat for an Arcane caster for two reasons. Firstly, it helps make sure that the spells does not get interrupted during casting. Secondly, it makes it easier to counter or interrupt enemy casters and their spells. These are enormously important, as a single spell can sometimes change the entire battle from victory to loss or vice versa.

With this in mind I propose the following changes to the Spell Casting Speed penalties table:

Armor:
Leather armor: +0
Studded Leather armor: +1*
Hide Armor: +1
Chainmail: +1*
Splintmail: +1
Platemail: +2
Heavy Platemail: +2

Shields:
Buckler: +0
Small Shield: +0
Medium Shield: +1
Large Shield: +2

 

* Elven chainmail and Shadow Armor would have a reduced penalty of 1, and therefore 0 Casting speed penalty.

The penalties of the shields might seem too low, but it doesn’t make sense to me, that it should be any more difficult to use a small shield than dual wielding weapons when casting spells.

These changes would make it distinct item by item comparison and choice whether to use an armor or a robe and spell, instead of never using armor which, to me, is the default choice with the current implementation.

 

PS. I love how the Revisions mods are comming along and look forward to play with the new releases. Great work guys!

[Demivrgvs]

I love how the Revisions mods are comming along and look forward to play with the new releases. Great work guys!

Thanks! These betas are getting better and better every day we work on them, wait and see.

 

Spellcasting in Armor

I'm glad you brought out this discussion because I think this option has been overlooked all these years (at least I NEVER got any feedback from players using it), while it is instead a much more enjoyable solution compared to the spell failure one (admittedly, even a 5% spell failure penalty is too much for me to consider using armor on my mages).

 

That being said, while I'm open to discuss some values here and there, I think your suggested ones are too low in general, especially for medium and heavy armor (+2 speed for the heaviest armor is almost nothing imo).

 

Personally I do not want full plate to become the standard gear for a F/M. What I do wanted is to allow a F/M or M/T (not to mention bards, that sooner or later will get a special treatment) to at least be allowed to consider about picking some armor in exchange for a slightly lowered spellcasting capability (Revisions mods are all about giving players more "choices"), but getting armor should always come at a price imo (e.g. light armor with no casting penalty is not a "choice" anymore, it's the obvious pick, up to at least until you get top tier robes within late SoA).

 

The current values seems ok but if we want to lower them a bit I may try suggesting something like the following. I'd really like to hear more opinions on this matter though.

 

Armor:

Leather armor: +1 (instead of the current 2)

Studded Leather armor: +2

Hide Armor: +2

Chainmail: +2 (instead of the current 3)

Splintmail: +3

Platemail: +3 (instead of the current 4)

Heavy Platemail: +4

 

Note: either within IR or KR I want bards to be able to cast spells with no penalty while wearing light armor or at least lowered penalties (e.g. +0 with leather, +1 with chain).

 

Shields:

Buckler: +0 (instead of the current 1) -> I'm not sure, but let's say that it would at least give this shield type a niche

Small Shield: +1

Medium Shield: +2

Large Shield: +3

[Lawlight]

Got it.

Unbelivable, but true:

IF the difficulty slider is set to "easiest" (I did this since I had Sarevok bashing my PC to avoid Deathbringer assault when starting to test this) melee attacks never do damage, they always hit the image.

Setting the difficulty to Core makes the character vulnerable again...... ; thus no tweaks are needed.

It's now official - this game is insane.

WTH!