New Arcane Spells for v4

[Demivrgvs]

Wierd

@Demi: if you wanted to comment on my post, then I think you forgot to type it

Ahahah, posting from work is making me mess half of my posts. Anyway, I wanted to say Weird has tons of possible secondary effects to keep it useful even if its death effect is way inferior to WotB's one. Within PnP creatures who fail only the first save vs. spell and don't die (save vs. death) still take a small amount of subdual damage (nice imo), are stunned for 1 round (very good) and suffer STR damage (wtf?!?). Now, I think we could keep the stun part as it is, remove the absurd (imo) STR drain, but make the subdual/psychic damage take place even on a successful save vs spell. I think we do have many ways to make it appealing while keeping it different from just another WotB, don't you agree?

[F-man]

Wierd

@Demi: if you wanted to comment on my post, then I think you forgot to type it

Ahahah, posting from work is making me mess half of my posts. Anyway, I wanted to say Weird has tons of possible secondary effects to keep it useful even if its death effect is way inferior to WotB's one. Within PnP creatures who fail only the first save vs. spell and don't die (save vs. death) still take a small amount of subdual damage (nice imo), are stunned for 1 round (very good) and suffer STR damage (wtf?!?). Now, I think we could keep the stun part as it is, remove the absurd (imo) STR drain, but make the subdual/psychic damage take place even on a successful save vs spell. I think we do have many ways to make it appealing while keeping it different from just another WotB, don't you agree?

Only version of Weird I have seen was illusionist WotB with two saves but this sound really good.

 

 

EDIT: Something quite random but not offtopic I belive. As there are some other mods that add spells, including the same spells as SR4, could you make new spells and their scrolls to use same filenames as those spells to overwrite them. Especially The Darkest Day comes to mind as it add several same spells as SR4 will add. Already, there are at least: True Strike, Mordekainen's Force Missile, higher level monster summoning spells, Mind Blank, Weird, Bane, Bestow Curse (possibly), Cloak of Bravery, Searing Light, Divine Power (renamed only), Frost Fingers (Freezing Hands) , Sun Scorch, Greater Magic Fang. Some of these Priest spells are already replaced by SR4 and I know that True Strike is replacement of Infravision but its scroll could also replace TDD version scroll of itself and remove the TDD spell from spell list.

Edited May 23, 2012 by F-man

[Demivrgvs]

Wierd

@Demi: if you wanted to comment on my post, then I think you forgot to type it

Ahahah, posting from work is making me mess half of my posts. Anyway, I wanted to say Weird has tons of possible secondary effects to keep it useful even if its death effect is way inferior to WotB's one. Within PnP creatures who fail only the first save vs. spell and don't die (save vs. death) still take a small amount of subdual damage (nice imo), are stunned for 1 round (very good) and suffer STR damage (wtf?!?). Now, I think we could keep the stun part as it is, remove the absurd (imo) STR drain, but make the subdual/psychic damage take place even on a successful save vs spell. I think we do have many ways to make it appealing while keeping it different from just another WotB, don't you agree?

Only version of Weird I have seen was illusionist WotB with two saves but this sound really good.

I'm not reinventing the wheel (see here). Actually, I must have been blind because its AD&D version works more or less as I want (with secondary effects taking place even on a successful save vs. spell), though having the 1 round stun unavoidable too may be too much imo, no?

 

Spell Revisions and TDD

As there are some other mods that add spells, including the same spells as SR4, could you make new spells and their scrolls to use same filenames as those spells to overwrite them. Especially The Darkest Day comes to mind as it add several same spells as SR4 will add. Already, there are at least: True Strike, Mordekainen's Force Missile, higher level monster summoning spells, Mind Blank, Weird, Bane, Bestow Curse (possibly), Cloak of Bravery, Searing Light, Divine Power (renamed only), Frost Fingers (Freezing Hands) , Sun Scorch, Greater Magic Fang. Some of these Priest spells are already replaced by SR4 and I know that True Strike is replacement of Infravision but its scroll could also replace TDD version scroll of itself and remove the TDD spell from spell list.

Well, two mods doing the very same things, messing with the same files, overlapping both technically and conceptually, are not supposed to be compatible imo (install one or the other). Have I to assume there's no TDD without TDD's spells? Sorry but that mod looked so bad I have never bothered looking into it much.

 

I'm not sure, it's a real pain to do what you say. I don't want SR to use TDD's filenames (I actually shouldn't in terms of "copyrights"), and while IR/SR (and soon KR) can take into account each other, I'm not up to the task of doing so for TDD (e.g. rearraging TDD scrolls allocations, making mod added items/spells consistent with the new item/spell's effects or even descriptions).

 

Btw, is there anyone still maintaining TDD?

 

On a side note, I'd like to make an arrogant/selfish statement. I'm very willing to make everything I can to have Revisions mods work flawlessly with high quality mods such as aVENGER's ones, even when they partially overlap (e.g. adding similar items, altering similar things, etc.), but I'm not nearly as willing to do so for all existing mods (unless you or Ardanis can convince me ), especially outdated ones, or those not conceptually compatible with Revisions ones. For example even a classic mod such as Weimer's Item Upgrade isn't 100% compatible with IR, and will never be.

[F-man]

Wierd

Yes, I know that you didn't just invent, just that for some reason that's the way it was implemented in PC games that I have played (well, except TDD which had also the str drain). Yes, unavoidable stun should be reserved only to some HLAs.

 

Spell Revisions and TDD

Most TDD spells I mentioned use vanilla game's spl-file naming with unused spell numbers (spwixxxx etc.) for their spells and even others don't have special TDD prefix to them, so some them get already overwritten by SR3. Scrolls also seem to lack real prefixes so they were overwritten by other huge mods until recent updates if understood right. TDD has been updated to Weidu and was at least some time ago maintained in SHS and if I remember correctly is actually one of the recommended mods in Big World Project (unlike SoS, TS, RoS and other huge mods) and they have forums in teambg.org. TDD spell scrolls are dumbed various places so simply removing spells would cause some problems I belive. Actually only thing that really matters is replacing same arcane spells and their scrolls what SR4 will add, I can easily collect their filenames when I get home.

 

EDIT: Added new info I found etc. If you don't bother to take TDD into account I can always do some small personal editing myself to my game to replace TDD scrolls with SR4 ones and remove TDD spell selection screen (though I don't yet know how to do that). As a sample: Ice Lance spell and scroll are SPWI328.spl and SCRX9.itm.

Edited May 25, 2012 by F-man

[Demivrgvs]

Spell Revisions and TDD

Most TDD spells I mentioned use vanilla game's spl-file naming with unused spell numbers (spwixxxx etc.) for their spells and even others don't have special TDD prefix to them, so some them get already overwritten by SR3. Scrolls also seem to lack real prefixes so they were overwritten by other huge mods until recent updates if understood right. TDD has been updated to Weidu and was at least some time ago maintained in SHS and if I remember correctly is actually one of the recommended mods in Big World Project (unlike SoS, TS, RoS and other huge mods) and they have forums in teambg.org. TDD spell scrolls are dumbed various places so simply removing spells would cause some problems I belive. Actually only thing that really matters is replacing same arcane spells and their scrolls what SR4 will add, I can easily collect their filenames when I get home.

 

EDIT: Added new info I found etc. If you don't bother to take TDD into account I can always do some small personal editing myself to my game to replace TDD scrolls with SR4 ones and remove TDD spell selection screen (though I don't yet know how to do that). As a sample: Ice Lance spell and scroll are SPWI328.spl and SCRX9.itm.

You know what? I might do that (not sure, but it may not hurt). If you want to help me out and you're already "working" on it, having a list of all overlapping spells and filenames would be great.

[F-man]

Spell Revisions and TDD

Most TDD spells I mentioned use vanilla game's spl-file naming with unused spell numbers (spwixxxx etc.) for their spells and even others don't have special TDD prefix to them, so some them get already overwritten by SR3. Scrolls also seem to lack real prefixes so they were overwritten by other huge mods until recent updates if understood right. TDD has been updated to Weidu and was at least some time ago maintained in SHS and if I remember correctly is actually one of the recommended mods in Big World Project (unlike SoS, TS, RoS and other huge mods) and they have forums in teambg.org. TDD spell scrolls are dumbed various places so simply removing spells would cause some problems I belive. Actually only thing that really matters is replacing same arcane spells and their scrolls what SR4 will add, I can easily collect their filenames when I get home.

 

EDIT: Added new info I found etc. If you don't bother to take TDD into account I can always do some small personal editing myself to my game to replace TDD scrolls with SR4 ones and remove TDD spell selection screen (though I don't yet know how to do that). As a sample: Ice Lance spell and scroll are SPWI328.spl and SCRX9.itm.

You know what? I might do that (not sure, but it may not hurt). If you want to help me out and you're already "working" on it, having a list of all overlapping spells and filenames would be great.

I can help, I just checked all spells yesterday and finding scrolls shouldn't be any harder. Their spells work a lot like PnP spells so there shouldn't be problems with AI (Especially if SCSII is installed as it overwrites their TDD AI). Only difference what I remember is if Mind Blank is made to effect whole party instead of single target but from single target to whole party shouldn't be problem, right?

 

EDIT: For spells I mentioned above, I now have all file names for spl files and for those itm files that actually exists (no divine scrolls and no Mind Blank scroll). So if TDD spell overwriting will be done, just ask me to give them.

Edited May 25, 2012 by F-man

[Ardanis]

Inspired by the post on BGEE forum, Leomund's Secret Chest may prove useful if we don't want to saturate the game with infinite Bags of Holding.

[Incantatar]

Not new spells but obsolete old spells. You should throw (minor) Spell Turning out of the window. Since we generally assume SCS here, no mage will fall for it ever and the only minor advantage to the deflection line is the very few instances of Gauths and Beholders taking some backlash for one or two rays.

[amanasleep]

Not new spells but obsolete old spells. You should throw (minor) Spell Turning out of the window. Since we generally assume SCS here, no mage will fall for it ever and the only minor advantage to the deflection line is the very few instances of Gauths and Beholders taking some backlash for one or two rays.

 

Untrue, although your post points to a possible improvement in SCS scripts. If an opposing wizard is covered by Spell Deflection, then you have the option to cast spells at them to "burn through" the Deflection. Spell Turning provides a penalty for that option. You can still attempt to burn through, but take care that you are immune to the burn through spell. If both wizards are protected by Spell Turning, then the attacking wizard will get the spell through while cancelling both Spell Turning spells.

 

I am not in favor of removing Spell Turning from the game. Improve it if necessary, but I consider it to be a great dynamic.

[Ardanis]

As far as I can judge, burning through spell protections is largely ineffective. The plan to allow deflection of AoE spells still lives, which may offer the middle ground between rendering the caster immune to single-target attacks and offering zero protection against AoE, adding the diversity as well as indeed an option to "burn through passively" by frying wizard's unprotected allies with an added bonus of depleting his own defense.

 

But all my arguments that reflection of AoE is viable and logical too have proven ineffective. And Turning is even worse, because it really makes you immune (5%-10% cases when it is relatively safe to burn it can hardly count), unlike the still overwhelm-able Deflection. No implementable solution has been found yet.

[amanasleep]

As far as I can judge, burning through spell protections is largely ineffective. The plan to allow deflection of AoE spells still lives, which may offer the middle ground between rendering the caster immune to single-target attacks and offering zero protection against AoE, adding the diversity as well as indeed an option to "burn through passively" by frying wizard's unprotected allies with an added bonus of depleting his own defense.

 

Not certain I understand why burning through protections is ineffective. If a wizard has Spell Deflection, you have 3 options:

 

1. Secret Word, Pierce Magic, etc.

2. Burn through with other spells (best option is Melf's Minute Meteors, which will take 3 levels off per meteor).

3. Ignore and cast AoE.

 

Making Deflection block AoE could make it easier to burn through as you say, although on balance I think this change protects wizards more than it makes them vulnerable. In any event, AoE protection on Spell Deflection is arguable, but I think it's largely too abusable on Spell Turning and Spell Trap.

 

The more I think about it, AoE for Spell Deflection but not for Turning or Spell Trap would be tactically interesting, so I am now in favor of that change.

 

But all my arguments that reflection of AoE is viable and logical too have proven ineffective. And Turning is even worse, because it really makes you immune (5%-10% cases when it is relatively safe to burn it can hardly count), unlike the still overwhelm-able Deflection. No implementable solution has been found yet.

 

OK, but Spell Turning doesn't make you immune. You can still use Spell Protection removal to bring it down (4 MMM's will do it too, and only the fire damage will be reflected) or ignore it with AoE.

 

As a Level 7 spell, Spell Turning really should be formidable, and people rarely use it now. It is actually easier to bring down than Spell Deflection, because Secret Word and other removers remove the highest level protection first, which means that Spell Deflection might not get removed if you also have GoI active.

 

Really, I don't understand the problem people have with the current system. The only problem I have is that I wish there was a way for Spell Turning to bounce spells more often in practice, but otherwise everything works great (under SCS at least).

Edited August 26, 2012 by amanasleep

[Jarno Mikkola]

Btw, is there anyone still maintaining TDD?

 

On a side note, I'd like to make an arrogant/selfish statement. I'm very willing to make everything I can to have Revisions mods work flawlessly with high quality mods such as aVENGER's ones, even when they partially overlap (e.g. adding similar items, altering similar things, etc.), but I'm not nearly as willing to do so for all existing mods (unless you or Ardanis can convince me ), especially outdated ones, or those not conceptually compatible with Revisions ones. For example even a classic mod such as Weimer's Item Upgrade isn't 100% compatible with IR, and will never be.

Here you go with the conseptually incompatible again...

Erhm, but you know... the Weimer's Upgrage is actually compatible with IR ... NOW that the BWP has it's hands on the stuff and made an adjustment to it... and it's only made if both mods are installed via BWP/BWS.

And yes, the TDD was last updated in November 2010... not that it needs to be updated to make it conseptually compatible with... as you can just overwrite and adjust the spells you see as the fitting once to be.

What's asked here- is that you go and take a look and see if you can make a better job than the mods makers ... not that you adjust your whole spell sellection to match theirs ... but DO NOT remove any spells.

 

For example, there's this one spell Daer Ragh's Aura of Cleansing, the idea of the spell is nice... but it's just 10 times too strong... as it's duration is longer than the Improves Alacrity spell, if my memory serves me at all. So if you cut the effect by 10, you might just get a spell worth to cast without every one feeling it's cheating. Yes, I am talking about turning the rounds to turns and turns to 1/10th of turns here...

 

Mordenkainen's Force Missiles

This would pratically be Evocation's version of Flame Arrow, firing Magic Missiles instead of arrows, and each with a small blast radius. For some reason PnP dmg (the same within AD&D and 3E) seems very OP to me, as each force missile deals up to 2d4 dmg (no save) + 25 dmg to target and anyone within 5 feet (save to negate), and you get up to 7 missiles. I guess the "save to negate" instead of "save for half" is what should keep it balanced (ironically that's pretty much what I suggested to do for FA), but the 7x 2d4 (no save) alone is kinda significant, and on a failed save 174 magic damage is a disintegration spell!! o_O A 1st lvl Shield spell blocks this spell ok, but I doubt it's enough to balance it considering only mages have such counter - for everyone else this pretty much seems an Improved Disintegrate. Am I missing something?

Well, you can make the first 25 dmg missile make the target immune to the "area damage" of the other missiles... so the max damage reduces to 81, while the area can be filled with lesser lesser creature deaths(33 & 25) or kinda severe injuries. And make the save vs half more than fine.

 

Animate Dead - Animate Skeletons

This is truly a must. Necromancers not having a single undead minion to summon before 5th lvl spells is ridiculous imo, especially considering within Forgotten Realms setting they actually have an Undead Summoning spell at each lvl. It will match the current cleric's Animate Dead spell, summoning skeletons early on, and a couple of greater ones later on, but no Skeleton Warriors.

Note that the reason for the Skeleton Warriors was to stay within the ally cap of 5. You could always make the animated skeletons not have the cap, and not increase any to greater ... while keeping their duration short. Edited August 27, 2012 by Jarno Mikkola

[Ardanis]

Erhm, but you know... the Weimer's Upgrage is actually compatible with IR ... NOW that the BWP has it's hands on the stuff and made an adjustment to it... and it's only made if both mods are installed via BWP/BWS.

Technically, but not cosmetically.

 

And yes, the TDD was last updated in November 2010... not that it needs to be updated to make it conseptually compatible with... as you can just overwrite and adjust the spells you see as the fitting once to be.

What's asked here- is that you go and take a look and see if you can make a better job than the mods makers ... not that you adjust your whole spell sellection to match theirs ... but DO NOT remove any spells.

I do not wish to sound like Vlad or Sikret, but there is a choice to be made between producing new content - widely acknowledged as of high quality (people requested Revisions to be included into BGEE), - or establishing compatibility with every single mod out there. We do make an effort to remain compatible with other widely recognized mods like SCS and aTweaks/RR, and we try to avoid issues with other mods if it doesn't require too much work. But checking everything out is really counterproductive. The best we can do without postponing the new version release date infinitely is to look into specifically reported issues.

 

Also, as I have already pointed out in the IR forum, we consider it normal to remove other mods' spells/items if they are not the main focus of said mods and impose difficult to solve compatibility problems - by default, unless specifically requested otherwise.

[Incantatar]

I do not wish to sound like Vlad or Sikret,

You don't. Actually your far from it thankfully.

 

Reading amanasleep's post above, MMMs really shouldn't be able to remove spell protections, at least not 3lvls per meteor.

 

Oh and why not add Teleport to lvl 7, allowing to teleport to selected places? Like this mod http://forum.sigil.cz/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=740

Edited August 30, 2012 by Incantatar

[Jarno Mikkola]

Oh and why not add Teleport to lvl 7, allowing to teleport to selected places? Like this mod http://forum.sigil.c....php?f=20&t=740

That mod can be installed after SR. And there are other such spells already. Each can be installed after the other mods and there shouldn't be too many incompatibility problems(note that I am not saying if these two can).