Call for input - bardic magic

[Jarno Mikkola]

didn't tobex add them already?

The kit scroll bars ? Yes, but the ToBEx doesn't work in the BG*EE games. Just in the Non-EE games.

[lynx]

so where's the problem?

[subtledoctor]

TOB/BGT + TobEx enables scroll bars (and a bunch of other things I see as essential, like concentration checks). The EEs, somehow, do not yet have scroll bars. I have some hope that they'll appear in the upcoming 1.4 patch though.

 

EEs added a bunch of externalized stuff for thief kits. You can restrict kits to only HiS + MS + OL, but no FT or PP or DI. I don't believe ToBEx makes that possible. This is one of the rare times Beamdog has really gone further in enabling modders to do cool stuff. (Externalizing weapon styles is another big one.)

 

So given the plans I posted above, to distinguish rogue kits by differing access to various skills, you can pretty easily infer that this mod will be EE-only. Sorry. Give me the facility to do this stuff on the old engine, and I'll happily include support in this mod. But as long as TobEx is dead in the water and no one picks up the reins, you're going to see more and more stuff going EE-only.

 

Meanwhile, on-topic, anyone have suggestions to fill out my bardic ability pools?

[kreso]

Try here. Not all are applicable/useful to BG world (think Diviner/Transmuter in PnP vs them in BG) but I'm sure you can find at least a dozen worthwile.

My tips (I'm thinking about implementability and usefulness here):

Song of Discord (berserk effect on enemies), Eyebite, Daze, Calm Emotions (sorta SR's Break Enchantment), Rage, Good hope, Greater Heroism, Mass Suggestion, Crushing Despair etc.

[Bill Bisco]

I would really like to see a Michael Jackson-like effect where monsters are forced to dance with the bard: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wdgIEHDOiaU

 

I'd also like something like a Diresinger where singing summons undead and gets better undead over time.

[Fiann of the Silver Hand]

TOB/BGT + TobEx enables scroll bars (and a bunch of other things I see as essential, like concentration checks). The EEs, somehow, do not yet have scroll bars. I have some hope that they'll appear in the upcoming 1.4 patch though.

 

EEs added a bunch of externalized stuff for thief kits. You can restrict kits to only HiS + MS + OL, but no FT or PP or DI. I don't believe ToBEx makes that possible. This is one of the rare times Beamdog has really gone further in enabling modders to do cool stuff. (Externalizing weapon styles is another big one.)

Restricting thief skills is doable, just not as simply as in EE.

 

Spells: bards are historians and story-tellers. Maybe something to do with Lore bonuses and saves vs INT-based magic (charm, illusion)?

[Bill Bisco]

I'd also like to see a drain life aura bard kind of like larloch's minor drain in a radius. Works like anti regeneration.

[Grammarsalad]

It might be possible to add a kit as a cleric, but change class and kit via script...

[subtledoctor]

This guy seems to have found a way, so I assume it can be done.

 

http://www.shsforums.net/topic/44729-the-rogue-class-switching-mod-bard-to-thief-and-vice-versa/

 

In which case, we just use empty bard kits under the bard class menu, and each will simply run a CLAB spell to run the class-switching script into the appropriate new thief kit.

[Jarno Mikkola]

It might be possible to add a kit as a cleric, but change class and kit via script...

I have done this a few times as a part of a kit, and it's fine mostly, but it's not as elegant as one hopes it to be...

 

This guy seems to have found a way, so I assume it can be done.

You did try his mod right, cause you have to switch to be the thief with the provided spell to then be able to use the rogue(non pickkpocket) skills and be unable to cast spells for that time.

So you can restrict the kits to be half thieves or quater, 1/8th thief, but it still a thief without access to the mage casting table unless you use a multi class of thief/mage.

[subtledoctor]

Yeah that's the whole point: unlike that mod, this switch only needs to happen once, a second after character creation. Roll a bard, it becomes a thief, and then you're a thief forever. No wizard casting ever, for any bard - that will be replaced by the bard magic which is the subject of this thread.

[AstroBryGuy]

How would you handle compatibility with mods that have bard-specific content? For example, a romanceable NPC with bard-exclusive replies that uses a Class(Player1,BARD) check to detect a bard CHARNAME? Or one that checks for arcane spellcasters, e.g.,

 

 

OR(2)
 Class(Player1,MAGE_ALL)
 Class(Player1,BARD)

 

You could rewrite the Class() checks as Kit() checks, but you'd need an intelligent re-scripter to detect if the Class(Player1,BARD) check is in an OR() already, since nested OR()s are bad.

[Mike1072]

WeiDU does have REFACTOR_TRIGGER if you wanted to, say, replace one trigger with two triggers.

 

If you are just replacing Class(Player1,BARD) with Kit(Player1,FAKEBARD), you shouldn't need it.

 

This wouldn't deal with the problem of your bard getting detected as a thief, though.

[subtledoctor]

This wouldn't deal with the problem of your bard getting detected as a thief, though.

As yet, I haven't been convinced that will be a big deal. I'm talking about collapsing thieves and bards into a single "Rogue" class, and if scripts and encounters detect and react to them the same way as thieves... Eh, I'd need specific examples of how that would be a terrible thing, to be convinced to put much effort into redressing it.

 

SoA strongholds will be an issue, but I think that is moddable. We'll see.

[AstroBryGuy]

BG1NPC does have some dialog options that check for Class(Player1,BARD), for example Coran's and Dynaheir's romances. So, unless you hot-patch those scripts/dialogs, Bard CHARNAMEs will miss some content.

 

There's also some combat scripts in BG2EE that detect Bards as spellcasters for targeting with disabling spells like Silence (which should be one of the worst spells for a Bard to get hit with, unless he/she has the Mime Bard kit). ;-)