Unearthed Arcana presents Might & Guile: tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues

[Enigmajazz]

Hi @subtledoctor, love the MOD

I want to activate feats for F/M/T (I know this is probably OP but it's what I want to do). I have managed to edit the d5mcft1.spl so that the icon appears and tried added a column with the heading FIGHTER_MAGE_THIEF to the d5flstf.2da but when the icon is clicked in game no selection box comes up. Do I need to use a different heading or do I need to make another change?

 

Edit: Nevermind worked this out for myself

Edited February 25, 2022 by Enigmajazz

[subtledoctor]

Version 4.18.4 fixes an occasional bug that could lead to bards' spellcasting slots appearing to double when wearing armor.

It also adds beholder rays to the list of things that can be avoided with the Spell Evasion feat.

[subtledoctor]

Version 4.18.5 fixes the various forms of Spell Evasion when applied to items.

Scales of Balance, SD's Random Tweaks, Will to Power, and Tome & Blood are also updated with the same fix.

EDIT - I should clarify, this is a very rare bug. It was visible with Wands of Fire in relation to traditional Spell Evasion, because Wands of Fire have two different item abilities. There are very few items, if any, with two ability headers that interact with the other forms of this Evasion. If you are not seeing a problem in your game, then don't feel compelled to update these mods.

Edited March 7, 2022 by subtledoctor

[Mordekaie]

Preparing an EET install. The modlist is almost done and i have been starting ordering all that stuff.

I have few questions about SoB before going further (and sorry in advance for your time):

 

210- Bard Overhaul: Multiclass Bards    - Installation with warning in PI ? I don't know if there is a "serious" problem behind that. Do you know what makes PI to react?

220- Revised Multiclassing and Multiclass Kits       - any issue with NPC_EE ?

240- Improved Rangers               - will do some more "in game" testing (i like it very much; hoping it will fit/not conflict with other  mods from my modlist)

245- Revised Movement Bonuses (Quickstride)    - Nice component for Barbarians/monks/rangers + Scout kit

275- Revised Shadowdancer                                   - Nice revision (especially for that HiPS replacement).

I still want to keep the "standard" Shadowdancer kit for NPCs and i would like to add this Revised Shadowdancer as a "new" kit (probably for my character to make a multi fighter/revised shadowdancer). What kind of manipulations should i do to obtain this result ? I consider this as an opportunity for me to start learning how to modify a mod (instead of just installing it and being confused with conflits and load order).

322- Add the Elven Archer (ranger kit)                 - Planning to add this kit (without the Feat System and Revised Archery) to test the trick shots while keeping  the "standard" Archer for comparaison. Is it possible ?

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by Mordekaie

[subtledoctor]

16 hours ago, Mordekaie said:

210- Bard Overhaul: Multiclass Bards    - Installation with warning in PI ? I don't know if there is a "serious" problem behind that. Do you know what makes PI to react?

Almost certainly nothing to worry about.

16 hours ago, Mordekaie said:

220- Revised Multiclassing and Multiclass Kits       - any issue with NPC_EE ?

Nope, they are fine together. The more multiclass kits the better IMHO (though some of these are stinkers - TBH the ranger/mage is hacky trash)

16 hours ago, Mordekaie said:

I still want to keep the "standard" Shadowdancer kit for NPCs and i would like to add this Revised Shadowdancer as a "new" kit (probably for my character to make a multi fighter/revised shadowdancer). What kind of manipulations should i do to obtain this result ? 

In might_and_guile/components/275_revised_shadowdancer.tpa, delete the block from line 95 to line 127.

16 hours ago, Mordekaie said:

322- Add the Elven Archer (ranger kit)                 - Planning to add this kit (without the Feat System and Revised Archery) to test the trick shots while keeping  the "standard" Archer for comparaison

TBH the mod’s structure here has gone through some revisions, and I’m not sure what this kit gets if you don’t install Revised Archery - as the trick shots are in that component. This might be an install sequence that hasn’t been tested. 

[Mordekaie]

Thanks for your reply and time.

About "210- Bard Overhaul: Multiclass Bards" installation with warning, there is the following line in the corresponding debug file :

WARNING: no effects altered on d5mcfb1.spl      (i don't know if it is of any help for you)

I may give a try with Bardic Wonder kits. Does thsi mod fit with your Bard overhaul

I may also install Bardic Wonder. What do you think ? Are they compatible ?

 

 

[Mordekaie]

9 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

In might_and_guile/components/275_revised_shadowdancer.tpa, delete the block from line 95 to line 127.

I am probably missing some aspects of the process (considering i am still a complete dummie in this area). I did install the "modified" mod but nothing happened : i just get all the vanilla thief kits, in particular the shadowdancer. I was hoping to get an additional "revised shadowdancer" kit with a new name to distinct this new kit from the vanilla Shadowdancer.

 

9 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

322- Add the Elven Archer (ranger kit)                 - Planning to add this kit (without the Feat System and Revised Archery) to test the trick shots while keeping  the "standard" Archer for comparaison

TBH the mod’s structure here has gone through some revisions, and I’m not sure what this kit gets if you don’t install Revised Archery - as the trick shots are in that component. This might be an install sequence that hasn’t been tested. 

I confrm : without installing Revised Archery, i get an Elven archer instead of the vanilla archer for an archer character (but with all the characteristics of the vanilla archer). This kit needs Revised archery (which anyway install the kit) to be installed first.

And obviously, as  "240- Improved Rangers"  and "245- Revised Movement Bonuses (Quickstride)" are installed prior to the new Elven Archer kit, this new kit doesn't get the new abilities.

[Quester]

Some more thoughts on the bard kits:

The Skald's Inspiration: Power seems too weak. Even with the level scaling, it's not going to make much of a difference at anything but the earliest levels. I would suggest at least the very minor boost in power by changing the level scaling from +1 damage every five levels, to +1 every four levels. That way it scales a little better.

The Loremaster should reasonably have a bonus to their lore skill, should they not? Beyond the +5 per level that (almost?) every other kit gets.

Suggestion: change the name of the Meistersinger to Piper. It seems to fit better thematically in my opinion.

Are the Swashbuckling abilities of the Blade and that of the Swashbuckler and Corsair supposed to be different? Should perhaps the Blade be given another ability instead (which I think they have in the vanilla game, right?) And, should the Blade perhaps be allowed Mastery *** in the relevant weapons instead of just two pips? It is after all in their name.

I still think the Jinxer and Hexblade kits are way too similar to each other. Could they be given some more ability that sets them apart from one another?

Also, just to check but IWDification's "Add IWD Bard Songs" would be incompatible with the changes to the bard from M&G, right?

[subtledoctor]

2 hours ago, Quester said:

Suggestion: change the name of the Meistersinger to Piper

Well it's based on the original 2E source material.

2 hours ago, Quester said:

The Skald's Inspiration: Power seems too weak. Even with the level scaling, it's not going to make much of a difference at anything but the earliest levels.

It's +4 to damage on every attack, party-wide (including summons etc.), and you can attack and cast spells while the song is in effect. Seems to me that's not nothing. Of course, mind you, that is the song Skalds get at first level. They get another song at 6th level and you can learn about five to seven more songs over the course of the game. So it's not like you are locked into using it. It has its place (when facing tons of melee mobs) but it is situational; and you will learn aa number of other songs with similarly situational application.

2 hours ago, Quester said:

Are the Swashbuckling abilities of the Blade and that of the Swashbuckler and Corsair supposed to be different?

It went through various iterations but I believe it is now a single ability: melee AC bonus, small damage penalty, and a chance to trip when you get a critical miss.

2 hours ago, Quester said:

should the Blade perhaps be allowed Mastery *** in the relevant weapons instead of just two pips?

They can get one more pip than other bards with light bladed weapons (I think daggers, shortswords, scimitars, ninja-to, wakizashi, and longsword). In the unmodded game that means specialization. With the SoB proficiency system where rogues can get specialization, that means mastery.

2 hours ago, Quester said:

The Loremaster should reasonably have a bonus to their lore skill, should they not? Beyond the +5 per level that (almost?) every other kit gets.

Pretty sure they already do...

2 hours ago, Quester said:

I still think the Jinxer and Hexblade kits are way too similar to each other. Could they be given some more ability that sets them apart from one another?

They are very specifically designed to be the same kit - one is a warrior version and one is a rogue version.

2 hours ago, Quester said:

IWDification's "Add IWD Bard Songs" would be incompatible with the changes to the bard from M&G, right?

Not incompatible per se, but those IWD bard songs are only for vanilla-style proper bards. They will not have any effect or be usable by the revised multiclass bard kits.

[Quester]

Okay, thanks for the answers. I am only going off of the readme, mind you. In there some of these things are a little unclear. Haven't actually looked at the kits in game yet, since I'm still preparing my install list.

[Mordekaie]

I found a D2 modfix that includes some fixes to different mods including a component/fixes for M&G. Would you recommend those M&G fixes ?

D2 mod fix

Edited March 31, 2022 by Mordekaie

[subtledoctor]

What is it? Where is it from? What does it fix? Is it discussed anywhere? Pardon my reluctance to download a file on the internet that looks like “mivsvysebj.zip”…

I’m not aware of anything that needs fixing, so I guess I can’t recommend it. If people find stuff that needs fixing, I strongly urge them to mention here or some other relevant place. People are certainly welcome to code up fixes - less work for me! - but if I don’t know about it, then I might end up updating something that interacts badly with it. 

[Mordekaie]

13 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

What is it? Where is it from? What does it fix? Is it discussed anywhere? Pardon my reluctance to download a file on the internet that looks like “mivsvysebj.zip”…

I’m not aware of anything that needs fixing, so I guess I can’t recommend it. If people find stuff that needs fixing, I strongly urge them to mention here or some other relevant place. People are certainly welcome to code up fixes - less work for me! - but if I don’t know about it, then I might end up updating something that interacts badly with it. 

I have been investigating a little ; i didn't find any more info about this mod beside the link from Beamdog. I know that "D2" has other interesting mods that i may include in my EET list. It is probably a list of personal fixes that the author has been sharing with the community. I apologize for my post if it brings any tension between modders.

Ayway and just for infos, you will find below what is written in the readme concerning M&G:

==================================================
Might and Guile - multiclass kits by subtledoctor
==================================================
- fixed some errors and added missing info to kit descriptions
- Tomb Runner: removes extra +1 backstab and Set Snares (will have normal amounts now)
- Ranger/Thief: fixed the Nature Magic spells and added spell lists to descriptions
- Ranger/Mage: added missing apr bonuses at levels 7 and 13
- Spellfilcher: lowered starting skill points from 50 to 40 (same as regular Thief)

Proficiencies:
Ranger/Thief - standard Fighter multi
Tomb Runner - 2 slots in Thief weapons, 2 slots in single weapon
Thug - standard Fighter multi
Spellfilcher - standard Thief profs
Loremaster - 1 slot in all weapons, no weapon styles
Ranger/Mage - 2 slots in Thief weapons, none in weapon styles (gained automatically)

- not working: add proper Sneak Attack progression. This doesn't seem to do anything currently. The multiclass kits just use the regular Thief progression. But in the event that the kits are updated to use their own lines in the 2das, this patch will give the proper progression (based on kit description).

[subtledoctor]

Ah. All of that stuff actually was brought up in this thread, and has been addressed already in recent mod updates. So there is no need for that.

[Guest Jeff]

I'd like to edit the feats such that the Herald Class can gain access to some fighter and thief feats, how would I go about doing that?