Unearthed Arcana presents Might & Guile: tweaks and kits for warriors and rogues

[Dan_P]

Thanks for the info. I basically get how it works, at least enough to patch it with weidu. I've got the extra backstab and the extra traps (which I'm assuming are unintended) both removed.

[Gwaihir]

@subtledoctor

Hi! In my current game I made Imoen a Jinxer through NPC_EE, however she did not receive any feat, apart from the emanation: malison. As I understand, jinxers should get feat selection, is that wrong? Can I add one through console?

Also, I would like to swap the two handed weapon style with shield fighting. Can that be done mid-game, by editing files in NI or console?

Edited January 30, 2022 by Gwaihir

[Chitown Willie]

Subtledoctor,

Should a Level 1 bard w/ CHR 15 have 2 (0 + 2 extra from CHR from SoB Stat Bonus) - or 3 castings?

Reason I ask is because when creating a brand new Mage/Thief > Bard, I'm granted 3 castings. But based on "d5cstbrd.2da", I was under the impression that Level 1 bards can't memorize any spells :

2DA V1.0
0
        1   2   3   4   5   6   7
1       0   0   0   0   0   0   0

Also, I'm allowed to memorize 1 spell from a list of 5:

•     Charm Person
•     Friends
•     Mage Armor
•     Sleep
•     Spook

But Garrick/Will can't memorize any spells; they just have the included spells (i.e., Vocalize, Command).

Edited February 4, 2022 by Chitown Willie

[Dan_P]

Posting some minor issues with some of the Multiclass kits (from multiclass component), in case you didn't already know about them. These aren't urgent or anything, just whenever you get to it. I've already patched most of these for myself.

Ranger/Thief 
- various Nature Magic issues:

Spoiler

d5rt100.2da (Nature Magic I)
- 2da doesn't include a line for D5RT106.SPL (Magical Stone), I'm assuming this is an oversight.

d5rt200.2da (Nature Magic II)
- table has charm mammal, but with wrong resource

d5rt300.2da (Nature Magic III)
- the resources are all for Nature Magic I spells

I attached fixed 2da files, if you don't want to edit them yourself. These can also just be dropped in the override for anyone who wants a quick fix.

rangerthief2das.zip

 

Ranger/Mage
- in Heart of Winter, a newly-created Ranger/Mage doesn't get the level 1 druid spells.
- missing info in description:

Spoiler

• Gains weapon style proficiencies automatically at levels 1 and 10. Single Weapon, Two Handed Style, and 2 Weapon Style will all max out on their own. Should probably be noted in the description because it's easy to assume something might be wrong when you see extra proficiencies that you didn't select showing up in the character screen.
• Gains Animal Summoning I and Death Ward as level 4 wizard spells
• Gains Animal Summoning II as a level 5 wizard spell

Thug 
- just a description thing. I saw on the last page you added Detect Illusion to the kit, but it's still listed in the disadvantages. Since it's a Thief skill (so shouldn't be affected by most tweaks), it might be worth editing out.

Besides these, there's still the backstab progression issue I mentioned previously, though I'm not sure if there's even a fix for that one. Might need to edit the descriptions to avoid confusion. For myself, I just patched in a note in the descriptions that the game might use the unkitted Thief progression instead.

Also, a question about proficiencies. These are the proficiencies for the kits:

Spoiler

Ranger/Thief - thief weapons, axe, spear, longbow
Tomb Runner - thief weapons (no katana)
Thug - thief weapons + longbow
Spellfilcher - thief weapons + longbow (can't use)
Loremaster - thief weapons (no katana), axe, warhammer, no weapon styles
Ranger/Mage - thief weapons, bastard sword, axe, war hammer, flail, mace (can't use non-Thief weapons)

In addition, Spellfilcher is the only kit that can take sword and shield style. Are all of these intentional? It seems arbitrary to leave out katana or Sword and Shield for some of the kits. Also, just my opinion, but I don't see a reason for the Fighter/Thief kits (and maybe even Loremaster) to not be able to put points in all available weapons.

[Dan_P]

Also noticed this (this'll be my last post on the multiclass kit stuff). I made this separate from the last post for better readability:

Ranger/Mage: doesn't get the +1/2 apr bonuses at levels 7 and 13. Specifically, the file name for d5_numat.SPL is too long (needs space for the # at the end of the EFF filename), so it doesn't get added to the qd spell files.

Also, the apr bonus isn't mentioned in the kit description, though it can be inferred from the "Ranger" part of the name. Technically, not getting the bonus would be accurate to the description, since it doesn't mention it (or being able to specialize in weapons). Well you can decide what's best.

 

Also, a suggestion for the weapon profs for multiclass kits. This is what I patched them to for myself that I think works better than the current setup in the mod:

Ranger/Thief - standard Fighter profs
Tomb Runner - 2 slots in Thief weapons, 2 slots in single weapon
Thug - standard Fighter profs
Spellfilcher - standard Thief profs
Loremaster - 1 slot in all weapons, no weapon styles
Ranger/Mage - 2 slots in Thief weapons, 2-3 in weapon styles

Main thing is less arbitrary changing of profs from vanilla (separate tweaks can be used for that). Loremaster can learn all weapons, for academic purposes, but doesn't train enough to advance in weapon styles. Ranger/Mage is changed to Thief weapons only, but can specialize, owing to greater combat focus. Tomb Runner, I'm actually not 100% sure about, but for now I restricted it to Thief profs, and also removed Two Handed Style, due to lack of training (description says it needs a free hand).

[Gwaihir]

@subtledoctor

So, just noticed that the multiclass bard kits were not installed in my current game. Quick look at weidu log showed that component 210 was not there. Did a quick install on a clean BG2 game, and this is the error: (this is with Might and Guile 4.17.2)

Spoiler

//ERROR: cannot convert fatigue_zero or %fatigue_zero% to an integer
//ERROR: [sppr102.spl] -> [override/d5z295i.spl] Patching Failed (COPY) (Not_found)
//Stopping installation because of error.
//ERROR: [d5zclons.2da] -> [override/d5zclons.2da] Patching Failed (COPY) (Not_found)
//Stopping installation because of error.
//Stopping installation because of error.
//Stopping installation because of error.
//Stopping installation because of error.
//Stopping installation because of error.
//ERROR Installing [Bard Overhaul: Multiclass Bards], rolling back to previous state
//Will uninstall 2675 files for [might_and_guile\might_and_guile.tp2] component 210.
//Uninstalled    2675 files for [might_and_guile\might_and_guile.tp2] component 210.
//ERROR: Not_found
//Please make a backup of the file: Setup-might_and_guile.debug and look for support at: SubtleD
//Automatically Skipping [Bard Overhaul: Multiclass Bards] because of error.
//Using Language [English]
//[.\lang\en_us\dialog.tlk] created, 104020 string entries
//NOT INSTALLED DUE TO ERRORS Bard Overhaul: Multiclass Bards

 

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Gwaihir

[subtledoctor]

3 hours ago, Gwaihir said:

multiclass bard kits were not installed

Huh. Super weird. At any rate, fixed now in 4.17.3.

[Gwaihir]

2 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Huh. Super weird. At any rate, fixed now in 4.17.3.

Now it installs fine, thanks!

[Guest noober]

Hi SubtleDoctor. I was reading through the readme of Might & Guile, and most of it seems really cool and well done. The feat system sounds neat, lots of well balanced bard kits added etc, and I'm definitely including this in my upcoming playthrough. However, in my opinion it seems a little light on additional single class fighter kits, compared to all the other cool additions. As such I was just wondering if you have any plans for adding more kits for fighters in the future?

Also, the bard kits seem very well designed but the Jinxer and the Hexblade seem to be almost identical?

[subtledoctor]

Thanks for the feedback! No plans, I’m slowing down adding new content. Fighters are tough: I’ve added a fighter version of the Archer and Swashbuckler, and the vanilla kits cover a few other angles. But it's hard to come up with more. If you look at the source material, the stuff for thieves and bards is so creative, while fighters and especially clerics was a bit drab. (Cleric kits were basically “rich cleric” and “middle-class cleric” and “poor cleric”  )

You can already set up different kinds of fighter with the feats, and I might add something like armor proficiencies at some point. 

39 minutes ago, Guest noober said:

the Jinxer and the Hexblade seem to be almost identical?

They are, in fact, just about identical; but one is a fighter/mage and the other is a thief/mage.

[subtledoctor]

On 1/27/2022 at 3:59 PM, Dan_P said:

EDIT2: I did notice a couple other things, tested with EE v2.6.6

• The multiclass thieves use the regular thief progression for backstab.

So I've been finally looking into some of your reports, and this is just really sinking in. Is it possible that multiclass kits cannot set their own backstab progression?  That is very disappointing, if true.

[Dan_P]

1 hour ago, subtledoctor said:

So I've been finally looking into some of your reports, and this is just really sinking in. Is it possible that multiclass kits cannot set their own backstab progression?  That is very disappointing, if true.

Yeah, that seems to be the case. Checked on both EE v2.5 and v2.6.6. This affects the multiclass bards too, so all thief multiclass kits.

Edit: Just to add, this is for both backstab and sneak attacks. Editing the lines does nothing, and deleting the line also does nothing. The reason I was even looking into it was because I was patching sneak attack values for mod kits I have installed for IWD:EE. Basically noticed it changing nothing for multiclasses.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Dan_P

[subtledoctor]

Updated the mod to v4.18, which addresses all of what @Dan_P mentioned in the last few posts there. (Well, I think all of it, at least most of it.)

This also updates the semi_spontaneous function library to parity with 5E spellcasting v1.6 and Tome & Blood v0.9.26. Of note, when these functions are applied to arcane casting (as they are for MnG's Revised Multiclass Bards), contingencies, sequencers, and the Identify spell will automatically be updated to be compatible with this spellcasting style. The upshot is, the Identify spell can now identify up to four items, instead of just one; and sequencers and contingencies will now let you choose from your known spells instead of your memorized spells, and will not cost you the memorization slots of the spells you choose.

[Dan_P]

Hey, thanks for the continued updates. Just a few minor things I noticed (was mainly checking to see how your changes compared to my own patch for previous versions).

Loremaster: Can become Proficient in all weapons except for Bastard Sword, which I'm assuming was left off by accident.

Ranger/Mage: The description says it gets 15 skill points per level, but the number in thiefskl.2da is 10. For reference, this was at 12 before the change to multiples of 5.

Spellfilcher: This is one I had forgotten to mention. It starts with 50 skill points, then gains 20 per level. For comparison, an unkitted Thief starts with 40 points and gains 25 per level. I just thought it was odd to start with more points than the base class, then gain fewer per level. Also, no mention in the description about gaining 20 points versus 25. 

I don't know if the 50 starting points is a mistake or not. Just pointing out the numbers, in case they aren't what you want them to be. For myself, I patched it to start with 40, then keep at 20 per level (so same as Bounty Hunter), then added a note in the description. I think setting it to match either Bounty Hunter or Shadowdancer seems fair, since the kit otherwise has no disadvantages compared to a plain mage/thief.

[subtledoctor]

Thanks! Handled those, and slightly improved compatibility with NPC_EE in version 4.18.1.