Dispel/Remove topic (continued from SCS forum)

[Demivrgvs]

Personally, I don't like the idea of checking Dispel against the target's level. Like the magic adheres better to high-level characters, or something? It's weird.

That's my main gripe as well and pretty much the only reason that made me never mention this solution before.

 

Last but not least, I actually think that despite its flaws Dispel Magic main issue isn't caused by the spell itself but rather the "overleveling" of AI spellcasters. If your enemy is the same lvl as you, or even 2 lvls higher the chance to get all your buffs dispelled would still be 50-60% (still a bit OP because of the large AoE but bearable), but considering all the complains I read I have to assume either vanilla cres or SCS re-leveling isn't finely tuned. Except few rare cases (e.g. Lavok) I don't think overleveling is necessary to create a good challange, but especially for the vanilla game it was the easiest way.

 

If only I could find a coder or two to work on Quest/Creature Revisions.

[Jarno Mikkola]

If only I could find a coder or two to work on ...Creature Revisions.

Make your gathered thoughts on the creatures into a topic, in SR or the IR forum, I am sure Mike can separate it when the time comes to it's own forum, and I am sure we can make a .tp2 for it on the fly.

 

Just make sure that you don't forget the unique characters. Also remember that the current summons you have in SR are totally out of the realm of reality, so tweaking those is the first place to start. Too many hit points, way out of resistances and or damage output. Yeah, they might be taken from a P&P book, but those are way off the normal BG2 games scope, where there's HP level caps, stat caps etc for the player characters, let alone to summons that should be 1/5th of the effectiveness of the player chars. See that's why you get 5 of them. Aka there's no justification to have a summoned creature that has more that 100 hit points, even with a HLA.

 

I don't really see there to be need for Quest Revision mod, there's already enough other things that modify that aspect, in different mods. Try the quest mods, Unfinished business mods, xp tweak mods, and other(item randomizer etc etc etc.) that you can install, and there's really hard to see what there's to change.

[kreso]

Nice job Kreso, I guess it's worth including it in the next build which I upload tomorrow.

I'll send you the code tonight, you can keep it as a seperate component (imo, it's even better that way - if people seem happy with it include it later).

Just add a component in main SR tp2 that asks if one wants to install it. It must go after SR's main component.

Some things I need to know beforehand:

 

a) what should it stop? Dispel & Breach or only Dispel? I'd vote for both tbh.

b) duration? I kept it 5 turns, but I'd rather tone this down (drastically) to 5 rounds; or 1 turn max.

c) which spells should remove it? (Pierce Shield, Spellstrike, Dispel, Breach?)

d) percentage probability for removal. I've kept Dispel at 100% chance, we can tone it down (50, 75)? I'm assuming higher level removals should have 100% chance. I'd vote for 100% on all removals including Dispel. One thing to note - SCS sometimes uses Remove magic in sequencers.

e) Message displayed when Screen goes down. I use "Dispelling Screen dissipates"; but I'm very open to suggestions.

[Demivrgvs]

Dispelling Screen

a) what should it stop? Dispel & Breach or only Dispel? I'd vote for both tbh.

b) duration? I kept it 5 turns, but I'd rather tone this down (drastically) to 5 rounds; or 1 turn max.

c) which spells should remove it? (Pierce Shield, Spellstrike, Dispel, Breach?)

d) percentage probability for removal. I've kept Dispel at 100% chance, we can tone it down (50, 75)? I'm assuming higher level removals should have 100% chance. I'd vote for 100% on all removals including Dispel. One thing to note - SCS sometimes uses Remove magic in sequencers.

e) Message displayed when Screen goes down. I use "Dispelling Screen dissipates"; but I'm very open to suggestions.

a) concept wise it should only stop Dispel imo, but I can live with Breach too if "necessary"

b) casting time should remain 5, thus no super short duration. I'd keep 5 turns considering its intended role. Why would you make it short lasting? Short duration would make more sense if it remains as it is (immunity to dispel, not canceled by it)

c) If DM removes it why would you ever waste a powerful spell removal on it? that being said, doesn't it need to remain detectable as SI:Abj for SCS? If yes, spell removals should cancel it.

d) 100%, no random chance if it is supposed to work as a Spell Shield. Leave the % thing to actual dispelling, protection vs removals system is best kept as a rock/paper/scissor.

e) no idea, I'm Italian and my English is so and so

 

Off Topic summons

Also remember that the current summons you have in SR are totally out of the realm of reality...

I know I have to limit the hit points of some powerful summons (Elementals, Aerial Servant, etc.), but most of them doesn't really seem to need any nerf. I'll try to gather some feedback on it but it seems like 1% of beta testers spontaneously give me feedback. Thank god they are more than 100.

 

Quest/Creature Revisions

I don't really see there to be need for Quest Revision mod...

There's soo much room for improvements instead imo. Is there a mod which tackle the stupid "you can rest everywhere" mechanic? Is there a mod which finally gives some sense to sewer's mind flayer lair, twisted rune, etc.?

 

Also, we could go area per area and revise encounters to increase variety and challenge. Better creature selection and/or positioning (e.g. no more golems stuck on doors), more unique encounters (there was a big discussion back then regarding SCS randomness vs uniqueness), etc.

 

I'd say Slightly Improved Ilych is a good example of how I'd revise an area, and Polytweak is a good example of how I'd revise creatures.

[Jarno Mikkola]

I'll try to gather some feedback on it but it seems like 1% of beta testers spontaneously give me feedback. Thank god they are more than 100.

The gathering feedback is harder if you aren't asking people ... you know the sugar rather than vinegar metaphor ?

Did you ask specifically... this is why I said you should raise a topic about the creatures, specifically about the creatures too. Not, ouh here's a list of the has been creatures that has 0 replies cause it's a list of them, not a questionnaire of how one should change the pre-existing(aka vanilla BG2) creatures, given the summon and caster levels(aka spell changes to the .spl).

 

Feedback:

Aerial Servant, not that I can actually tell you on what level this spell can be cast, but anyways:

 

STR 21, DEX 19, CON 17, INT 6, WIS 11, CHA 11; AL Neutral

HP 148, AC -1, THAC0 2, Saving Throws 4/6/5/4/7

2 Attacks Per Round, 2d6+11 Crushing Damage (Fist +2)Special Qualities:

Natural Invisibility: constantly invisible as if affected by an Improved Invisibility spell

Immune to hold, poison, sleep, & stun effects

1. Has too many hitpoints. A character whose class id a fighter, needs to be hmm, level 18-22 to have as many HPs, realistically at least. That's one caster spell, not their whole arsenal. 80 hit points should be kinda enough. As the level creep gets to be equal to 8th level character fighter.

2. STR is too much. Considering this is smaller creature than a giant.

3. 2 attacks, fun, but 2d6+ 11 damage, erhm, there's no weapon that has that in normal game and thus it's OP ... 1d8 + 5 +2 or something from 18/100 could be rationally made as a case, the +2 from the enchantment. That's at least 3-11 points of damage too much.

4. Natural invisibility, I cannot see a point to this, the AI can see those creatures if they have the cheat, and if they don't, well the fighter opponent is screwed, as not able to target or hit the blocking opponent, which if you check is pure cheese.

5. Immunities seem thematic. OK. If there would be Lightning immunity(99%-100% damage immunity), that could be OK too.

And as an additional feature, if the character casting this also has an ally that casts say Fire Elemental, the Aeriel servant should turn hostile and go after the FE.

 

That's the first creature. I won't go on. As this is off topic like pointed out. But the point was that there should be an active topic about this.

 

More on this here. Please comment about this there.

[kreso]

Dispelling Screen

a) what should it stop? Dispel & Breach or only Dispel? I'd vote for both tbh.

b) duration? I kept it 5 turns, but I'd rather tone this down (drastically) to 5 rounds; or 1 turn max.

c) which spells should remove it? (Pierce Shield, Spellstrike, Dispel, Breach?)

d) percentage probability for removal. I've kept Dispel at 100% chance, we can tone it down (50, 75)? I'm assuming higher level removals should have 100% chance. I'd vote for 100% on all removals including Dispel. One thing to note - SCS sometimes uses Remove magic in sequencers.

e) Message displayed when Screen goes down. I use "Dispelling Screen dissipates"; but I'm very open to suggestions.

a) concept wise it should only stop Dispel imo, but I can live with Breach too if "necessary"

b) casting time should remain 5, thus no super short duration. I'd keep 5 turns considering its intended role. Why would you make it short lasting? Short duration would make more sense if it remains as it is (immunity to dispel, not canceled by it)

c) If DM removes it why would you ever waste a powerful spell removal on it? that being said, doesn't it need to remain detectable as SI:Abj for SCS? If yes, spell removals should cancel it.

d) 100%, no random chance if it is supposed to work as a Spell Shield. Leave the % thing to actual dispelling, protection vs removals system is best kept as a rock/paper/scissor.

e) no idea, I'm Italian and my English is so and so

a) OK, Breach gets rid of it as well.

b) ok, CT=5; 5 turns (I'd make it short since the effects imo shouldn't last too long; but fine - 5 turns it is. I'd probably settle for 2 turns tops...)

Just for th record, I'd revert Dispel AoE on 30 if you use this AoE Dispel Screen. 20 is very, very small AoE. The spell lost half it's mojo just by this, unless you're in an area that prohibits spreading aroud like City Gates Lich tomb and similar - there it's just as good as before .

c) AI wouldn't (and won't) deliberately use any spell removal on it - but since Pierce Shield works as a super-duper Breach, I don't see why it wouldn't destroy DScreen. Spellstrike is, well, Spellstrike, which should destroy everything bar Spell Shield, so why not clean DScreen if it's there? Note, DS would *not* stop either of them, they'd just remove it as they do with other stuff.

d) K, 100% it is.

e) ............any more suggestions? Something a la "Dispelling Screen protection cancelled", destroyed, "Dispelling Screen broken", "Dispelling Screen absorbs a spell and dissipates", "Magic attack absorbed, Dispel Screen cancelled".....

 

Anyhow, now the only way to remove DS (even from enemies) is to hit them either by Dispel Magic, Breach, or Pierce Shield/Spellstrike. (Demi, if you don't want them to cancel it remove part of the code that deals with spwi903 nad spwi805.)

 

On a sidenote - Demons/high level mages (especially those who summon demons who in turn use Dispel magic, like Tolgerias) eat up DS in an instant + Dispel you quite often.

I think this tweak will make the early BG2 a bit easier (less dispels) and mid/late (Underdark, any high-class demon battle, ToB) harder.

Mages will have to play far more defensively with Deflections to keep buffs up.

 

I'll have the code wrapped up in 2 hours or so.

[Demivrgvs]

@Jarno you picked the only objectively unbalanced summon but I already admitted that when few players reported about this specific summon. My big mistake was forgetting that AD&D spell was more like BG's Gate or PnP Planar Binding.

 

That's the first creature. I won't go on. As this is off topic like pointed out. But the point was that there should be an active topic about this.

Well, there was a topic here, it just got sort of abandoned. Feel free to revive it and point out all the OP summons.

[subtledoctor]

My big mistake was forgetting that [Aerial Servant] was more like BG's Gate or PnP Planar Binding.

Neither here nor there, but it's funny you say that, in my clerics mod I spontaneously decided that Aerial Servant and Gate will be good/evil versions of the same 7th level spell...

[kreso]

Demons and Elementals aside, it's kind of done.

Link for those unpatient with a Weidu installer, Demi if you want to add this to SR do an INCLUDE of Dispelling Screen.tpa which you add somewhere.

I suggest a seperate component like with "Deflections stop AoE spells".

All is patching, sans 4 spells you need to copy from somewhere in SR files if .tpa is called. (*all 3 with k1 prefix and spwi510d*, ignore all others in spells folder like spwi510a, spwi510, they're unused.)

 

Install after SR (mandatory) and before SCS.

 

What this does:

Changes Dispelling Screen into an AoE spell. Protects vs one instance of Dispel Magic and/or Breach, then vanishes.

Description is kind of lackluster; if somebody (Salk/Demi/anyone?) can do better please do. If it bothers you, go to languages/english and change the description yourself.

For now, this is used:

 

Level: 5
School: Abjuration
Range: Personal
Duration: 5 turns
Casting Time: 5
Area of Effect: Caster and nearby allies
Saving Throw: None

By casting this spell, caster creates a transparent, permeable barrier that shields the him and allies from Dispel Magic and Breach spells. The barrier dissipates after one instance of Dispel Magic or Breach. Spells higher in power that remove specific protections like Pierce Shield and Spellstrike remove Dispelling Screen from target without getting absorbed by it

 

 

As you can see, I made PS & Spellstrike remove it. To change it, open components/Dispelling Screen.tpa, scroll down to a line that says

//Disable this (153-214) to prevent Spellstrike & Pierce Shield to remove Dispelling Screen//

 

and delete all that jazz up to line that says "end of code".

 

Beholder innate Anti-magic ray is also tweaked to blast it, since otherwise this would be "the spell" to use vs them. I've removed 25% MR bonus.

[geg_Ma3gau]

hey guys.

 

Do you have any idea how compatible are the tweakpack's "all creatures get max HP" and SCS' "super dragons/ demons etc" modules? I always install SCS last and after the tweakpack for sure.

 

Im looking forward to your next patch so much. Using SR IR and SCS and also tweakpack ofc how do i install my patch the fastest? I need to reinstall SR and then reinstall tweakpack and then SCS with the same options to make sure everything is ok?

[Kalindor]

Level: 5

School: Abjuration

Range: Personal

Duration: 5 turns

Casting Time: 5

Area of Effect: Caster and nearby allies

Saving Throw: None

 

By casting this spell, caster creates a transparent, permeable barrier that shields the him and allies from Dispel Magic and Breach spells. The barrier dissipates after one instance of Dispel Magic or Breach. Spells higher in power that remove specific protections like Pierce Shield and Spellstrike remove Dispelling Screen from target without getting absorbed by it

 

 

It's not a bad description as-is. Here is an expanded one for you to use or not as you desire:

 

"Upon completion of this spell, a transparent and permeable barrier descends upon the caster and all allies within XXX feet. Individuals protected by the Dispelling Screen will be shielded from the effects of Breach, Dispel Magic, and Remove Magic. After absorbing one of these spells, the magical barrier around the creature dissipates. Very powerful antimagic spells such as Pierce Shield and Spellstrike will dissipate a Dispelling Screen without being absorbed."

[toxin]

A quick note about duration - in contrast to the other protection/deflection spells, this one dissipates after the first shot so I don't think it overpowered to last something like a turn/lvl. I agree that this duration is not typical to AoE spells though so perhaps making it 6th level will balance that out. Just my 2 cents.

[Demivrgvs]

Very powerful antimagic spells such as Pierce Shield and Spellstrike will dissipate a Dispelling Screen without being absorbed

Wait a sec, what does that mean? That Pierce Shield will cancel DS and then remove another spell protection?

[kreso]

 

Very powerful antimagic spells such as Pierce Shield and Spellstrike will dissipate a Dispelling Screen without being absorbed

Wait a sec, what does that mean? That Pierce Shield will cancel DS and then remove another spell protection?

 

Yes. I made it so Spellstrike keeps it's removal mojo & given that Pierce Shield is a combat protection removing spell. Should DS prevent Pierce Shield from working, while getting removed by it? I'd probably vote yes...

If so, add 206 vs Pierce Shield to spwi510d (the spell that has "old" DS effects). That will prevent it from working on it. Or add a piece of code to bottomof .tpa that goes something like

COPY_EXISTING ~spwi510d.spl~ ~override~

LAF ADD_SPELL_EFFECT

INT_VAR

opcode = 206

target = 1

duration = 300

power = 5

STR_VAR

resource = spwi805

END

I'll be away for 3 days so I won't be able to change stuff during that time.

[subtledoctor]

Pierce Shield is more or less (Pierce Magic + Breach), no? So if DS is negated by Pierce Magic OR Breach, it seems reasonable that Pierce Shield should breach the DS and then also remove a spell protection.