Subtledoc's Random Tweaks

[subtledoctor]

Two more ideas:

1) Make Goodberry a druid’s swiss army knife. It can generate a single bunch of berries (one item) and you choosecwhat it does when you cast it:

• Cure Light Wounds
• Sanctuary
• Barkskin
• Cure Disease
• Cure Fatigue
• Lesser Restoration
• Produce Fire
• Et cetera

Some options would not be available (like Restoration) until you reach higher levels. Or could even make versions of the spell at every spell level, which would have more possible effects (and better healing, for the healing effect). This would really lean into the idea of druids working their magic via plants/nature, and give them a cool way to simulate a bit of spontaneous casting. 

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2) Make Sunfire party-friendly.  And not bypass MR.  Hear me out. 

a) Sunfire is stupid. It’s great for dolo mages, it’s near-useless for 6-man parties. It bypasses MR, for no reason that I can see except some technical issue with it being self-targeted (the caster’s own MR could block it). 

That’s stupid. I’d say, make it subject to MR, give it a party-friendly projectile maybe reduce the max damage to balance it being party-friendly. Still wouldn’t be OP because you can’t direct it - it only affects the area immediately around the caster  

Heck, if it’s going to be a mid-level AoE party-friendly spell centered on the caster, maybe just replace it altogether. Seems like a good place for Isaac’s Missile Storm or something similar. 

b) Items that cast Sunfire on hit are stupid. More trouble than they’re worth. They would be cooler if it was party-friendly too. And/or reduce the size/speed/intensity of the effect. Maybe use the smaller, slower whoosh of Produce Fire instead of Fireball/Sunfire. Or maybe like a 1- or 2-round Beltyn's Burning Blood on the wielder.

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EDIT -

3) Speaking of item tweaks: how about imposing some kind of cost for drinking a potion in combat?  If it was BG1 and going to the Inventory screen unpaused the game, this wouldn't be necessary.  But now you don't need quickslots: you can go into your inventory, rummage through a potion case, find just the right potion, and drink it, and it happens instantly with no effect on your ability to attack in the chaos of combat.  That seems kind of silly. 

The obvious idea is a short (1 round or less) Slow effect.  Or maybe an even slower Pause effect.  Maybe just reduce your movement speed and/or APR for a short time? 

Edited March 1, 2020 by subtledoctor

[Bartimaeus]

Isn't Sunfire not subject to MR because it targets undead, which a good amount of in SoA are more or less immune to magic? That would be what I'd suspect, anyhow. ...Wait a second, Sunfire isn't Sunray - mages don't even have access to Sunray! Oh dear, my brain. Sunfire is renamed to Fireburst in SR, that's why I'm confused. I also didn't know it penetrated MR...apparently, that was deemed to be a bug in BG2, as it was reversed for BG2:EE. SR also changes it to be subject to MR. ...So wait, SR nerfed its AoE effect (30' to 20') and removed its MR-penetration specialty...and gave it nothing in return? I don't *think* this spell was especially popular to begin with, so that seems odd. Kind of like the idea of changing it back to the original name (because Fireburst does hit everyone in actual P&P, while Sunfire isn't a P&P spell) and making it party-friendly, yeah.

Goodberry: Fun concept, could easily be done via the select spell opcode (using icons of the spells they're supposed to emulate), but it does sound too powerful - or, if you actually tried very hard to balance it via level progression, the useful effects would come too late at too high of a level for it to be worth the bother. You really gonna have a Lesser Restoration at like level 9 or something when Lesser Restore, a 4th level spell, only becomes available at 7th level? Too wacky.

Potions: I've had similar thoughts, also about how healing potions should probably be a regeneration effect instead of an instant cure...but then I realized "maybe I'm just changing something for the sake of changing something - this is just going to make it so people use potions a little earlier and maybe have to disengage and kite while the healing goes through, which is never something I'd want to 'force' players to do - also I never use potions anyways, why am I even thinking about this?".

[subtledoctor]

6 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Sunfire is renamed to Fireburst in SR, that's why I'm confused. I also didn't know it penetrated MR...apparently, that was deemed to be a bug in BG2, as it was reversed for BG2:EE. SR also changes it to be subject to MR. ...So wait, SR nerfed its AoE effect (30' to 20') and removed its MR-penetration specialty...and gave it nothing in return? I don't *think* this spell was especially popular to begin with, so that seems odd.

Well, the damage is greater than Fireball.

But, man, I just looked at this spell in BGEE v2.5.17... it uses op148 to cast a subspell at a point (that's quite different from the original Sunfire) and the subspell uses the Fireball projectile but it does not bypass MR (also very different) and it has a 318 effect preventing "creature=source" (i.e., presumably, the caster) from being affected.  So basically it's a Fireball but you can safely be within the radius of your own Fireball?  Is this the new normal version of this spell in the EEs??

I still don't love it.  Going with the Missile Storm idea for a minute: I know a couple Missile Storm spells are added by the "Made in Heaven" mod, but I haven't looked at how they work.  I've played around with NI a bit and here is an extremely simple execution: just cast Magic Missile at everyone within the AoE radius.  It's a 5th level spell, so you''ll be 9th level when you cast it, so MM will be maxed out: you'll spit five magic missiles at every enemy within 15 feet.  Does that seem crazy?  Hear me out:

• It will literally cast the 1st level spell at everyone, so all the things that block Magic Missile will automatically block this, without complicated coding or worries about interactions with other mods.  That includes Shield, ProMagicEnergy... and Minor Globe of Invulnerability.  Not sure whether I like that or not...
• It will be blocked by MR, unlike the old Sunfire.
• While it sounds strong, it actually does a lot less damage than Sunfire: 5d6+5 to each target, vs. 15d6.
• It would look super cool. 

Thoughts?

Edited March 2, 2020 by subtledoctor

[Bartimaeus]

@Sunfire: Yeah, but it's the same as vanilla - maxes out at 15D6 at 15th level. So...as far as I can tell, SR straight up nerfed it - twice! - with nothing in return. Making it party/neutral-friendly would be a pretty cool and interesting development, in my opinion - especially because it's a self-targeted 20' radius spell, unlike something like Horrid Wilting, which is an interesting curveball usage-wise. I legitimately want to implement that.

@Missile Storm: It feels...weak? The raw damage dealers for 5th level arcane spells are...Sunfire and Cone of Cold? I absolutely despise using Cone of Cold personally - stupid janky self-pausing combined with an already janky cone effect - but in terms of damage output, I think they're more on the money for 5th level spells. Feels more like it'd fit as a 4th level spell...and what do you know, Missile Storm actually is 4th level in P&P (although with a pretty different implementation). You could do some funny business with Magic Missile, too. Like, why not add some additional hidden headers with ridiculous level requirements (past 40) for Magic Missile that will cast more than 5 missiles that you can force Missile Storm to cast at higher levels? 5 missiles would already look insane against a bunch of targets in range - why not 7? Greater Missile Storm at 6th level? Let's see 10 or 11 and melt the game engine...

[Mythalar]

Those implementations of missiles storms spells would be awesome.

Buy yeah the first level MM casted all around would be quite weak at 5th level so maybe at 4th level.

And a bigger, "unchained", spell at 7th level. Perhaps with a little something more perhaps since 1d4+1 DMG/2 level is quite weak at this level (even moreso if it can be countered by a simple shield spell...)

[subtledoctor]

The actual Missile Storm spells have a random chance to hit enemies with something like 1 to 4 missiles... this would hit every enemy with 5, guaranteed.  What other spells are there that are party-friendly?

• Holy Smite (3rd-level priest spell, only affects evil, 10d4 magic damage)
• Glyph of Warding (3rd-level priest spell, 10d4 electric damage)
• SR Fire Trap (2nd-level priest spell, 10d4 fire damage - btw that's pretty overpowered)
• SR Flame Arrow (3rd-level mage spell, 10d6 fire damage split among up to 5 enemies)
• ADHW (8th-level mage spell, targetable, 20d6 magic damage)

it would be akin to SR Flame Arrow, but with an uncapped number of targets, up to twice the damage to each one, and a better damage type.

[kjeron]

13 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

But, man, I just looked at this spell in BGEE v2.5.17... it uses op148 to cast a subspell at a point (that's quite different from the original Sunfire) and the subspell uses the Fireball projectile but it does not bypass MR (also very different) and it has a 318 effect preventing "creature=source" (i.e., presumably, the caster) from being affected.  So basically it's a Fireball but you can safely be within the radius of your own Fireball?  Is this the new normal version of this spell in the EEs??

It has always been a Self-Immune Fireball that is cast at your location. It's design hasn't changed - it's just coded that way to not bypass MR.  It does need one fix - the subspell range needs to be increased (30 would be enough) for some scripts to use it effectively.

It only every bypassed MR due to technical limitations, not by design (the effects were always flagged not to by bypass MR).  By casting the spell targeting them self, the spell bypassed MR - which is standard behavior for any spell.  The problem is that this MR bypass affects all targets, not just the caster.

[subtledoctor]

26 minutes ago, kjeron said:

It has always been a Self-Immune Fireball that is cast at your location. It's design hasn't changed - it's just coded that way to not bypass MR. 

Ah - I see now, even though it uses opcode 148, the ability target is still 5 so it is still centered on the caster

26 minutes ago, kjeron said:

It only every bypassed MR due to technical limitations, not by design (the effects were always flagged not to by bypass MR). 

Right, that’s what I always figured  Though, games being games, that basically became the defining feature determining how and why you would use the spell.

[Grammarsalad]

On 3/1/2020 at 4:33 PM, subtledoctor said:

1) Make Goodberry a druid’s swiss army knife. It can generate a single bunch of berries (one item) and you choosecwhat it does when you cast it:

• Cure Light Wounds
• Sanctuary
• Barkskin
• Cure Disease
• Cure Fatigue
• Lesser Restoration
• Produce Fire
• Et cetera

Some options would not be available (like Restoration) until you reach higher levels. Or could even make versions of the spell at every spell level, which would have more possible effects (and better healing, for the healing effect). This would really lean into the idea of druids working their magic via plants/nature, and give them a cool way to simulate a bit of spontaneous casting. 

This reminds me of my Cantrip and Orison spells. They each allow the caster to cast from a selection of minor spells (ie priest or mage cantrips, respectively) that are weak for the level but make up for the descrepancy by offering variety (if some version of 1st level cantrips is installed, it is added as a 2nd level spell). 

The idea of having one version per level also solves a problem introduced by SR. Now, of course, I understand why SR made it a first level spell. It's so weak in anything like it's current form that it is just not worth a second level slot. But, it's not really worth a first level slot, either (I think Demi himself has said as much).

And now if you want to completely revise the spell you have to account for it as both a first and second level spell (depending on whether SR is installed). Also, I think IWDEE has it under a different internal name, so that's another wrinkle. 

Anyway, having multiple versions for each level can streamline the series of spells. Add a version under the bg(2)ee internal name (making sure to remove the original spell res from hidespl in IWDEE), and add a version under the IWDEE spell name and you don't even have to do a check for SR (though you still need to worry about IWDEE). 

And you don't really need to have 7 versions. It could be like the animal summoning spells in vanilla (e.g. version 1 at level 2 or 3, version 2 one level higher, etc.). It should only target the person eating the berry, imo, and should never have an effect that is equal to an effect that can be produced by a priest spell at the level of the spell (or higher).

The only exception is when you have a revision that lowers the level of such a spell to at least one level below the berry in question. For example, I have a revision that replaces unfailing endurance with a more level appropriate toughness spell and duplicates the effects of UE as a 1st level spell remove fatigue (I'll be taking your advice re reducing fatigue level to 1 rather than 0). In such a case, I think it's perfectly valid to have a spell that restores fatigue that is lower than 4th level (edit: but again, not 1st level imo)

Edited March 4, 2020 by Grammarsalad

[subtledoctor]

Gonna add another little tweak, adding proper stat numbers to monsters where needed.  As of yet the only one I have is: set Yetis' Strength to 18/99.  (Those guys in IWD should pack a wollop, but I always see them doing 1 or 2 damage!)  This makes them basically akin to ogres.

Can anyone think of other monsters in need of adjustments to their stats?

[Luke]

17 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Can anyone think of other monsters in need of adjustments to their stats?

I fear most monsters in IWD:EE have 9 in all stats (which of course doesn't make sense... Elder Umber Hulks with 9 Strength??)

[Grammarsalad]

2 hours ago, Luke said:

I fear most monsters in IWD:EE have 9 in all stats (which of course doesn't make sense... Elder Umber Hulks with 9 Strength??)

Yeah, if you're not careful, this could easily become a creature revisions mod. Lol

[Jarno Mikkola]

58 minutes ago, Grammarsalad said:

Yeah, if you're not careful, this could easily become a creature revisions mod. Lol

Or rather a fuck up of epic proportions.

See the stats alone do nothing, cause if the monster does melee damage, yeah the STR does bonus damage, but what's not said is that the Yeti(ms4yeti.cre) actually already has 18 STR. The others don't... but they have items that call out their damage, they are called b1-*the damage die*.itm, and that's about it. There's no clearer evidence that that's the amount of damage they were intended to do. Yes, it's a 2ed rules, and most monsters didn't actually probably even have stats, except the combat ones, Thac0, HP and AC, there was no need for strength for most cases cause the players weren't probably allowed to pin the mosters down cause it's not in the rule set, so no stat was required... unlike in say 5th ed, where you can do all that and more with an athletic check and opposed roll.

Also Luke, please stop playin on the easiest difficulty level as that gives your characters +5 luck, which means that the damage is reduces by that amount from the top, unless it's 1.

[subtledoctor]

The Imp is correct, in that some creatures have 9 in all stats but other numbers might account for it.  Like, a 4+3 HD Ogre might have its STR set to 9, but have its thac0 hard-set to 13 instead of 16, and carry a special weapon that does +6 damage.  The result would be indistinguishable from giving the ogre 18/00 strength.  In that case, changing the STR value in the .CRE file would indeed mess things up. (I don't recall umber hulks doing 1 damage against me, so I have to check whether they need adjusting or not.)

That's why this won't turn into a massive Creature Revisions mod.  (Yet?)  The Yetis in IWDEE are noticeably, painfully, wildly wrong.  They call out to me for fixing every time I play.  So I don't want to fix every monster; I'm just wondering if any readers who, y'know, actually play the games (  ) can easily call to mind any other monsters that are similarly overtly and obviously broken. 

Another candidate might be the BG1EE skeletons mentioned in another thread, which don't have proper piercing/missile resistance.  I'm actually on Jarno's side in that thread - I think they are working as intended.  But, for players who want to alter them, this might be the right place to code it.

[subtledoctor]

Another question: I want to add another component that moves all non-shield shield-slot items to a different slot.  A lot of them are bard instruments, harps and such.  I get why the devs put them in that slot, the idea is you hold the instrument in your off-hand.  But I think it can interacts badly with your chosen weapon style (if that style is SWS or S'n'S).  Which bugs me.  I personally never end up using those instruments if my bard uses single-weapon style... and then what's the point??

So the question is, what would be the best alternate item slot?  A quick-item slot?  Perhaps the gloves/bracers slot?  (How can you play a harp while wearing Gaunlets of Ogre Strength??)  Any other ideas?