Subtledoc's Random Tweaks

[Jarno Mikkola]

1 hour ago, subtledoctor said:

Now also thinking about Neutralize Poison... ...

• Cure fatigue

That's going to be ... kinda difficult, cause the game doesn't trackt on this except on rare occutions. Aka, you can't really set it back to zero from a non zero value and have it effect applied immedietly. Which is why the Haste doesn't have the real fatigue effect, remember ?

[Salk]

Some neat ideas there, subtledoctor.

I like Improve Mantle,  Improve Otiluke's Sphere and Nerf vampires Level Drain proposed changes. 

I'm uncertain about Mirror Image. Would the AI (and AI modifications like SCS) still use it as Level 2 spell? If not, I would approve of this change too.

Even if some interesting components may be installed over SRR, I would still recommend Bartimaeus be given permission to integrate approved non-EE spell tweaks into his own SR fork for the benefit of non EE players like himself or me.

Edited March 18, 2020 by Salk

[Bartimaeus]

5 hours ago, Salk said:

Some neat ideas there, subtledoctor.

I like Improve Mantle,  Improve Otiluke's Sphere and Nerf vampires Level Drain proposed changes. 

I'm uncertain about Mirror Image. Would the AI (and AI modifications like SCS) still use it as Level 2 spell? If not, I would approve of this change too.

Even if some interesting components may be installed over SRR, I would still recommend Bartimaeus be given permission to integrate approved non-EE spell tweaks into his own SR fork for the benefit of non EE players like himself or me.

I am way too stressed out at this time to be working on really designing anything, so it's a moot point for the time being anyways. I also don't get the impression Subtledoctor particularly cares, especially since SRR is not something he uses and reaches a relatively small audience. My favorite ideas are:

1. Sunfire/Fireburst neutral-friendliness. This spell needs something, and I think that might be its something.

2. Mirror Image 3rd level spell (but probably won't happen). I think SCS will use it correctly as long as the IDS entries for the two different versions are updated (the 3rd level version would take the 2nd level version's identifier, while the 2nd level would get a deprecated tag).

3. Otiluke's revision (which I can legitimately claim I already had a vision for...and my implementation might end up being pretty different anyways).

4. Energy Drain kill effect. Also a spell that just needs...something, anything, and it thematically at least sort of works (plus it's a good opportunity to use one of my favorite graphical effects, the "ghost rising out of corpse" one...even though Wail of the Banshee already uses it at this level).

5. Ring of Danger Sense: Well, more IR-related, but also a ring that just needs something a little more concrete to be used more, and though +1 AC is generic, it makes perfect sense for it.

 

Other ideas I like but am not totally sure of:

1. Protection from Petrification (specifically, making it more like Protection from Evil in that instead of blanket immunity, it gives somewhere between a +2 and +4 bonus, while Potions of Mirrored Eyes and Wraithform keep the outright immunity).

2. Mantle (not yet sold on this exact implementation, but it's at least on the right track re: player vs. AI disparity, and there's stuff worth trying out to see if it's better in there - also, his implementation doesn't work for non-EE players anyways).

3. Luck. This is a spell I've never had a good grasp over how powerful it actually is in SR. Making it an AoE buff a la something like Bless or Chant is an interesting one, especially since it's an arcane spell, but I think our numbers would end up at different places.

4. Vampiric saving throws: ...But I'd make it more severe - not a neutral saving throw, but -2 at least and maybe even -4. This is vampires' signature ability, after all. Perhaps it could depend on the "quality"/age of the vampire, but it might be rather annoying to patch each vampire manually depending on what you "think" they should get. If level drain wasn't so broken, I would've loved to have made a Shapechange form for like an Ancient Vampire or something - alas. It's just as well, since I only ever wanted 5 forms for Shapechange, although I'm still not sure how useful the forms I made are because I've literally never played Throne of Bhaal with SRR (though I did get really close one time). Speaking of which, I still never had a good idea for the seventh and final form of Polymorph Self that I wanted...sigh.

 

@subtledoctor Neutralize Poison does kind of suck...I'm already sold on the idea of giving Lesser Restoration stat restoration, and fatigue/drunkenness (lol) would actually make sense as well. Neutralize Poison could easily become Neutralize or Protection from...Ailments? Wait, isn't there already a scroll with that name? Blimey. Anyways, protection from disease wouldn't be unwelcome.

Edited March 18, 2020 by Bartimaeus

[subtledoctor]

On 3/18/2020 at 12:36 AM, Jarno Mikkola said:

That's going to be ... kinda difficult, cause the game doesn't trackt on this except on rare occutions. Aka, you can't really set it back to zero from a non zero value and have it effect applied immedietly. Which is why the Haste doesn't have the real fatigue effect, remember ?

There might be an issue in the old engine... I forget.  But there is an IWDEE spell that removes fatigue, it works just fine.  And my various spontaneous casting systems bump fatigue from 0 to 1 when you wake up, and they work just fine as well. 

EDIT - that's right, you can't use it with a duration.  But you can permanently set it to one value, and then later permanently set it to another value.

 

21 hours ago, Salk said:

I'm uncertain about Mirror Image. Would the AI (and AI modifications like SCS) still use it as Level 2 spell?

 

15 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

 Mirror Image 3rd level spell (but probably won't happen). I think SCS will use it correctly as long as the IDS entries for the two different versions are updated (the 3rd level version would take the 2nd level version's identifier, while the 2nd level would get a deprecated tag).

 

The way Mirror Image works (IIRC... haven't looked at that code in a while) is, it keep the old spell exactly as is, but adds it to hidespl.2da so it is unavailable to the player.  Then it adds a new MI spell, with a new IDS name, at 3rd level.  Then it alters all scrolls to have you learn the new spell instead of the old spell.  So yes, SCS enemies will still use it as a 2nd-level spell.  That's not ideal, it is a miniscule advantage for the AI... but when spells are flying fast I don't think players will really notice, and who's to say enemy mages don't have some special abilities or bonuses that change their spell slots just like Charname or Edwin can get?  The upshot is, it doesn't change AI scripts AT ALL.  I coded it to completely leave AI scripts alone, because I don't want to take a chance on messing them up.

 

21 hours ago, Salk said:

Even if some interesting components may be installed over SRR, I would still recommend Bartimaeus be given permission to integrate approved non-EE spell tweaks into his own SR fork for the benefit of non EE players like himself or me.

 

No real need to port this stuff into SRR or anywhere - the way this is set up now, every single spell gets its own component.  So you can pick and choose each individual tweak.  They will install right alongside SR/SRR (just install this later) so they can be used together, no problem.

A lot of what I am doing here utilizes EE-only opcodes; this is a bit of a pie-in-the-sky, "if I could do anything I want with these spells, what would I do?" project.  Some stuff might work fine on the old engine - Color Spray, Luck, Mirror Image, Sunfire, level drain saves, the high-level spells, and maybe Otiluke's.  But other stuff - Pro Petrification and especially Mantle - will definitely require the EE game.  Next update, I'll try to systematically determine which tweaks can be used on the old engine.

Regarding specific stuff:

-- The current iteration of Pro Petrification uses my (EE-only) spell evasion system to grant an extra saving throw against the effect - not just a simple save bonus.

-- Mantle is currently supercharged Stoneskin, which incorporates total immunity to missile weapons (a la SR) and blocks all secondary effects from weapons.

-- Sunfire is currently Missile Storm, casting MM at every nearby enemy.

Another proposal: I'm thinking about giving Moonblade a chance to cast Faerie Fire on hit.  That way it will have some benefit against non-undead enemies.

Also, on the subject of Faerie Fire: it strikes me that it should prevent the target going invisible.  EDIT - with SR at least, this already happens.

Edited March 19, 2020 by subtledoctor

[Grammarsalad]

One idea I had for N. Poison was to combine it with Cure disease and cure paralysis and rename it, "Cure Affliction", or something like that.  

[subtledoctor]

10 hours ago, Grammarsalad said:

One idea I had for N. Poison was to combine it with Cure disease and cure paralysis and rename it, "Cure Affliction", or something like that.  

Yeah - like, put together all the lower-level cures at once - Slow Poison, Cure Disease, Remove Paralysis, Unfailing Endurance,* and roll them all into a single mid-level spell.  That would cure physical afflictions, and you have Exaltation/Spiritual Clarity to cure mental afflictions. And Restoration to cure negative energy/level drain. As for stat drain, I'm honestly fine with both spells curing it.  It is quite rare, and quite annoying, and I think I'd rather play a game in which is it pretty convenient to fix it.

* I am aware that Unfailing Endurance is already a mid-level spell... but cripes, I really can't see why.  Faiths & Powers moves it to 1st level, which is much more appropriate given its utility, IMHO.

EDIT - glancing at the EE version of the spell, apparently they made it a combination of Slow Poison, Cure Disease, and Cure Light Wounds.  Not terrible, but still not good enough.  With this tweak installed over SR it will do all that, plus remove fatigue, plus provide immunity to poison and disease for the duration.

Further thoughts:

-- This should probably reduce the casting time for Exaltation/Spiritual Clarity.  It is brutal trying to cast those in combat.

-- Shouldn't NPP give some kind of resistance to Skull Trap and ADHW?  Those do "magic damage" but it is specifically described as some kind of necromantic energy damage

Edited March 19, 2020 by subtledoctor

[Bartimaeus]

It's definitely beneficial to keep wackier/experimental ideas as separate components like this when possible. The monstrosity that has become my settings.ini file for SRR (...and IRR, for that matter) is proof enough of that. Of course, part of the problem is that I'm working inside the frameworks of those mods, and they do stuff like completely changing the behavior of petrification when that pretty obviously should've been a separate component with at least a couple different options to choose from with clear explanations as to what they effectively do...but since it's not, I'm kind of in a bind, especially when you consider that so many people use automated installs where, if I start putting "essential" (to them) parts of the mod in new components, then I'm effectively removing those features from their install. For stuff like individual spell tweaks, it's perfectly fine for stuff to stay as additional components in a separate mod.

Protection from Poison (what Neutralize Poison effectively currently is) has value as a spell in of itself, and that should probably stay, but uh, maybe at 3rd level, not 4th - after all, its greatest use is definitely in BG1 (I would think?), and poison really just doesn't have the power that elements do in BG2. I don't know for sure, I guess. Remove Paralysis is a dumb spell, too, speaking of.

Edited March 18, 2020 by Bartimaeus

[Grammarsalad]

7 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

It's definitely beneficial to keep wackier/experimental ideas as separate components like this when possible. The monstrosity that has become my settings.ini file for SRR (...and IRR, for that matter) is proof enough of that. Of course, part of the problem is that I'm working inside the frameworks of those mods, and they do stuff like completely changing the behavior of petrification when that pretty obviously should've been a separate component with at least a couple different options to choose from with clear explanations as to what they effectively do...but since it's not, I'm kind of in a bind, especially when you consider that so many people use automated installs where, if I start putting "essential" (to them) parts of the mod in new components, then I'm effectively removing those features from their install. For stuff like individual spell tweaks, it's perfectly fine for stuff to stay as additional components in a separate mod.

Protection from Poison (what Neutralize Poison effectively currently is) has value as a spell in of itself, and that should probably stay, but uh, maybe at 3rd level, not 4th - after all, its greatest use is definitely in BG1 (I would think?), and poison really just doesn't have the power that elements do in BG2. I don't know for sure, I guess. Remove Paralysis is a dumb spell, too, speaking of.

Completely agree.  Lol.  My ini is getting crazy, and the number of combinations that I have to consider is getting...out of hand.  The whole thing is such that I have to assume nothing for every single spell (to the point where I'm using RES_NUM_OF_SPELL_NAME for known spells like chill touch...lol)  That reminds me: I have to peep SRR to ensure compatibility when I get the chance--it's probably not enough if I just ensure compatibility with SR anymore... and then there is IR and IRR. lol

 

27 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

* I am aware that Unfailing Endurance is already a mid-level spell... but cripes, I really can't see why.  Faiths & Powers moves it to 1st level, which is much more appropriate given its utility, IMHO.

Yeah, I have a tweak that changes the spell (mostly as is, but resetting fatigue to 1) to a 1st level spell called "Remove Fatigue". I think that's an actual AD&D spell, so bonus.  I'm thinking of ways to make Unfailing Endurance worth a 4th level slot (refreshing fatigue of the party, as well as giving each member an innate ('second wind') that allows them to refresh their fatigue again...or something)  

 

[subtledoctor]

7 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Protection from Poison (what Neutralize Poison effectively currently is) has value as a spell in of itself, and that should probably stay, but uh, maybe at 3rd level, not 4th - after all, its greatest use is definitely in BG1 (I would think?), and poison really just doesn't have the power that elements do in BG2. I don't know for sure, I guess. Remove Paralysis is a dumb spell, too, speaking of.

There are a lot of Hold effects, especially in the first half of BG2, so Remove Paralysis might actually be a useful spell... if I ever memorized it!  It being AoE - a full counter to Hold Person, essentially - can make it even more useful than Free Action... in some very limited circumstances.

Agree that Pro Poison with a duration is useful.  3rd level, sure, but heck, maybe that could even be 2nd level.  And lo and and behold, Slow Poison is right there!

It occurs to me that, in the EEs, you could actually make Slow Poison do what it says on the tin.  Give it a duration, and have it set a spellstate; then patch every poison effect to cast one of two subspells: one would do the normal amount of poison, but against anyone with the Slow Poison spellstate, the 2nd subspell would kick in and do the damage a lot slower: change damage per second to damage per round, and damage per round to damage per turn, or something like that.  You're still poisoned, and still need an antidote (or a 4th-level Neutralize Poison spell), but you'll survive long enough to finish the battle and get help.

That's probably totally doable, and it sounds exactly like the sort of thing that belongs in a mod like this. The trick is, how to get SCS pre-buffing routines to use it, so the player can no longer use poison to destroy enemy mages' ability to cast spells...

EDIT -

Need to make some relatively final decisions here soon.  I'm 75% through SoD, and I've started installing mods onto BG2 to continue, and this is ostensibly the next one to be installed...

Edited March 19, 2020 by subtledoctor

[subtledoctor]

Updated to version 0.3.  Changes:

-- The casting time for Exaltation is reduced to 4

-- Spiritual Clarity gets a bump to have the same effects of Exaltation, except the effects only last for 5 rounds instead of 10, and the casting time is 1.

-- Slow Poison now immunizes the target from poison for 3 rounds (so you don't use the spell slot to cure someone only to have them immediately be poisoned again).

-- Neutralize Poison is now "Remove Afflictions." In addition to poison, it neutralizes disease, blindness, deafness, Hold, and fatigue.  If SR is installed, it extends immunity to disease for the same duration as its immunity to poison (1 turn/level, I think).

-- Moonblade now has a chance to cast Faerie Fire on the target.  If this happens to an invisible target, it will render them visible.

-- Phantom Blade now has a chance to cause the target to become Confused for 3 rounds.

[Endarire]

@subtledoctor
Mantle: What about making Mantle reflect some of the physical damage dealt to the caster (or would have been dealt, if not for Stoneskin/damage reduction/etc.)?

[Jarno Mikkola]

2 hours ago, Endarire said:

@subtledoctor
Mantle: What about making Mantle reflect some of the physical damage dealt to the caster (or would have been dealt, if not for Stoneskin/damage reduction/etc.)?

If you would like to explain how you define this "Some of the damage" with ogre or giant hitting you, or a slime dewouring and aciding your legs, then do tell, how exactly you are going to ? Pictures, or it didn't happen.

[subtledoctor]

Spell Revisions turns Mantle into Prismatic Sphere, which instead of protecting you does a lot of random damage to anyone attacking you. I don’t love that; but some people might love it! So this gives you a more defense-oriented alternative. I think between vanilla, SR, and this version, players have a pretty good set of three quite different options. 

[subtledoctor]

Incidentally, I just played through the invasion of Dragonspear Castle in SoD.  Neera had Stoneskin and MI up, and walked behind the front line of fighting, so that she was right in between the front battle line and the Crusaders' rear line, where their casters and some back-line fighters were engaging several of my summons.  She cast Missile Storm from this mod, and it was pretty epic. 5 Magic Missiles streamed out at about 25 different enemies.  The framerate dipped (I'm on ancient hardware) and it happened too fast for me to get a screenshot.  But it did a total of close to 400 points of damage spread among the enemies, a nice party-friendly assault on people who had already been softened up by a Fireball. 

(Then she casually strolled back behind my party, and cast Confusion.  That was pretty much the end of the Crusade's defenders.)

[Luke]

On 2/26/2020 at 5:56 PM, Grammarsalad said:

One thing I did was give them all a contingency effect that killed them if a nearby enemy saved vs spell (the save had higher penalties for higher level versions, I believe). The idea was to simulate the "disbelieve" mechanic.

Thank you very much for sharing!

I decided to remove the fake weapon and give them this effect. I also replaced your 'no filter' check with an INT check. In particular:

• Shadow Monsters: if the attacker has 'INT >= 16', then it will automatically disbelieve. Otherwise ('INT < 16'), it will disbelieve only upon a successful Save vs. Spell.
• Demi-Shadow Monsters: if the attacker has 'INT >= 17', then it will automatically disbelieve. Otherwise ('INT < 17'), it will disbelieve only upon a successful Save vs. Spell at -2.
• Shades: if the attacker has 'INT >= 18', then it will automatically disbelieve. Otherwise ('INT < 18'), it will disbelieve only upon a successful Save vs. Spell at -4.

To sum up, these creatures will deal full damage unless the attacker realizes (via making a Save vs. Spell) it's hitting an illusionary creature.

Let me know if you need more details about how to implement this mechanic (it's a little bit different from yours...)

Edited April 21, 2020 by Luke