Endarire's unauthorized mod uploads

[jastey]

@Zaramorte in other words: make a technical good update that fixes bugs, does not change the content, stays true to the author's intentions, make a transparent changelog, offer it in the according mod forum, be ready to take it down if asked to - and we'd kiss your feet. really, this community is about "all hands on deck". We all are the community, there is no elite group of modders who are chosen to maintain all mods; modders come and go, new modders arise and take over older projects, there is modders who were newbies only recently and now they are more skilled than I am.

Unfortunately, all @Endarire is hearing is "I am allowed to upload adapated mod versions".

[Zaramorte]

19 minutes ago, jastey said:

and we'd kiss your feet

no need... i got a ring for you all to kiss.

 i got it: as a mods user, i was worried that there might be too strict rules that could kill old but good mods... but what u said is undisputable, expecilly about technical skills, transparent changelog and being ready to take it down if the author show up asking for that.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Zaramorte

[DavidW]

It’s often easier to contact the owners if defunct mods than you might think.

When I borrowed from Ascension’s dialog for Wheels of Prophecy, I wrote to David Gaider. When I wanted to technically update Ascension-WEIDU, Cam and I wrote to Wes Weimer. Both replied quickly and courteously even though they were long, long gone from the modding scene.

It doesn’t always work, but it’s worth trying, even for ancient mods.

[jastey]

Yes, that, too. OF COURSE you try to contact the authors first, too.

My approach above was for mods where the authors are not reachable.

[InKal]

On 9/9/2023 at 7:08 PM, morpheus562 said:

I bring this up as it seems to mirror more and more the Rox situation but with more incompetence and less technical skill. If the mods here have the ability to check posters' ip addresses, it may be worth seeing who else matches with Endie.

eeehhh, I tried her Sola and Valen versions (out of utter desperation) and a.... technical skill, eh? NO! no technical, no skill, just bugs.

Recently Beamdog is like temporarily down and I am working for a fecking months on a working modded installation of bg2EE and couldn't find expanded classes anywhere until I was like wait!! monsieur Endarire has his github and voila there it was Expanded Classes latest version! Moreover there was also Sarevok romance mod archived for posterity I was also searching for some time. Great job, Endarire!!! eheh, I mean a couple of 30 year old mods uploaded without my grandma permission, oh, well, not great, not terrible either........

 

Seriously, uploading Dark Tidings was a dick move but overall his uploads may/can?/could? be really helpful. 

 

can, can? like tincan...OOOOHHHHHHH, Endarire, you forgot to upload Paladins of Fearun mod!

Edited September 11, 2023 by InKal

[Zaramorte]

On 9/9/2023 at 10:46 PM, DavidW said:

It’s often easier to contact the owner

yeah, i agreed, i was talking about cases when it's impossible (if a mod is dead u can ever find a way to try to reach the author... but if it's the author to be dead... well that's a bit more complicated )

Edited September 11, 2023 by Zaramorte

[Frenzgyn]

2 hours ago, InKal said:

Seriously, uploading Dark Tidings was a dick move but overall his uploads may/can?/could? be really helpful.

Some are legit. Expanded Classes & Kits IS one example, he asked and Semiticgodness allowed:

Quote

@ Endaire: I don't use Github much these days, but if y'all want to upload the mod to a Github repository, by all means, do so.

Now, since forks are usually  fine, out of the remaining 40 repositories, how many of them have author permissions?
There is the case of Lena Mod: the author gladly accepted Endarire's proposed fixes and released an update on HIS github. Why is Endie dropbox link still public? WTF?

If there were only a bunch very old mods, without an official host anymore I suppose nobody would have bring the fact up.

That's precisely what irks me, it was EASILY avoidable: just privately archive the few "rare" (or "fragile") mod you're afraid of "losing" (for example SHS ones not already on Github or other mirrors atm) and make them public if the needs arise, fork whatevere you want, upload all you've got permission and DON'T propose and advertise unofficial tinkered version without permission of the author or current maintainer.

Probably he would have still be able to upload 70% of what's there, nobody would have feeled pissed off and this thread would have never existed.

[jastey]

4 minutes ago, Frenzgyn said:

it was EASILY avoidable: just privately archive the few "rare" (or "fragile") mod you're afraid of "losing" (for example SHS ones not already on Github or other mirrors atm) and make them public if the needs arise, fork whatevere you want, upload all you've got permission and DON'T propose and advertise unofficial tinkered version without permission of the author or current maintainer.

Probably he would have still be able to upload 70% of what's there, nobody would have feeled pissed off and this thread would have never existed.

Very well put.

[Roberciiik]

@Endarire There is a lot of more or less good feedback on your actions. Please pay attention to it. 

From my side, it would be better to ask GitHub owners if they can upload the official mods into GH organization instead of doing it by your own. For example, after this post, I reach out to Austin and ask for permissions to upload BWL mods to the BWL GH org. And now we have those copies here:
- https://github.com/Black-Wyrm-Lair/Jini-Romance 
- https://github.com/Black-Wyrm-Lair/Rjali-Romance

Use your power to do it properly, not to destroy the reigning order...

[Grammarsalad]

On 9/9/2023 at 2:33 PM, jastey said:

@Zaramorte in other words: make a technical good update that fixes bugs, does not change the content, stays true to the author's intentions, make a transparent changelog, offer it in the according mod forum, be ready to take it down if asked to - and we'd kiss your feet. really, this community is about "all hands on deck". We all are the community, there is no elite group of modders who are chosen to maintain all mods; modders come and go, new modders arise and take over older projects, there is modders who were newbies only recently and now they are more skilled than I am.

Unfortunately, all @Endarire is hearing is "I am allowed to upload adapated mod versions".

I don't think it's so much that @Endarire doesn't take this seriously. I think he takes all of this very seriously. I think that he probably feels like he is following these guidelines... 

I have had a few conversations with him about this, and he seems primarily concerned with compatibility and preservation. I think he takes himself to be doing this stuff to _merely_ preserve and maximize compatibility. 

I think he could be mistaken about that, but even if so, I think it's a good faith mistake. 

[Guest]

On 12/15/2023 at 1:52 AM, Grammarsalad said:

I think he could be mistaken about that, but even if so, I think it's a good faith mistake.

If it was a good-faith error, it would have removed the problematic mods and would not offer versions adapted by EET mod converter as functional.

You can take a look at it and see what a compatibility update look like for him.

After pirating the mod Kim the pirate... (Using only EET mod converter)

He do the same with The Undying mod... Now a v2.7 is out ! So again he mislead player and lie about compatibility...

There's also "his" partially adapted version of More Style for Mage he's promoting on beamdog.

On 12/15/2023 at 1:52 AM, Grammarsalad said:

I have had a few conversations with him about this, and he seems primarily concerned with compatibility and preservation. I think he takes himself to be doing this stuff to _merely_ preserve and maximize compatibility. 

I've had a few conversations with him before this thread, and every one of them was personal and repeated requests, after telling him no.... He waits a week or a month and then starts again with the same requests.

Exactly the same thing he's been doing since this thread came out, keeping quiet for two months and coming back as if nothing had happened.

 

It should be noted that the Kim mod is maintained by the French community, and was clearly asked to withdraw his version on several occasions. Which he totally ignored.

And I'd like to make it clear that I have no problem with certain mods being saved on github, but now, given his practices, is it possible to trust those so called backup ? (not to mention his other versions not on github)

 

 

Edited January 16 by JohnBob

[CamDawg]

The credit is the one thing I don't mind. You do the work, you should get acknowledged. It's everything else that's problematic.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, CamDawg said:

The credit is the one thing I don't mind. You do the work, you should get acknowledged. It's everything else that's problematic.

Yes, you're right, but in this case what work ?

And Kim the pirate isn't an abandoned mod, he shouldn't release update without at least asking for it first.

Edited December 15, 2023 by JohnBob

[CamDawg]

Fair enough. I'm working from a general good-faith assumption which, given actions to date, is not warranted.

[Guest]

@Endarire, I hope again that you can understand why all this is problematic...

If you really want to participate to an update, I can propose you this...

We can work together on The Undying, I see you have added the fixes from BigWorldFixpack.

But you miss several things like Evaluate buffer and chapter checks.

I have already added the PVRZ needed for the two maps to work fine on EE, but didn't go any further because a lack of time.

I'm very, very far from being an expert and can't promise that we'll be able to make a fully functional version, especially since Com_Solaufein mentioned a problem with the dialogs that needs fixing.

So it's up to you, just let me know if you're interested.

Edited December 15, 2023 by JohnBob