Six's suggestions

[Jarno Mikkola]

No they don't, but that is an entirely different story than magic resistance. Mirror Image effect is hardcoded, and I currently have no idea of a possible solution to this problem.

Well, an unfair solution would be to make it hurt when it hits- Make the area effects damage distributed so it the levels you have take down the mirror images easily. For example Fireball; the maximum damage is now: 10d6, but it could be corrected so it hits with 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+ 10*(0-5). So the target is actually hit with 11 damage producing missiles, not by one large one.

It's unfair cause it takes down all the mirror images.

Hmm, can the spell effect be immune to the Mirror image spell?

[Ardanis]

Mirror Image effect is hardcoded, and I currently have no idea of a possible solution to this problem.

I've tried to test my idea to see if it'd work and guess what? It actually did work!

Still it's not exceptionally easy and fast to do, and involves ids too.

 

Mirror Image - add to it the "State: Set IDS State [72]" (which works with the 'duration" timing) to alter the caster's SPECIFIC (which appears to be mostly unused in the game)

 

DD thing - add the 177 to affect the SPECIFIC from the MI.

The eff itself is the "Spell: Cast Spell (at Creature) [146]".

Finally, the spell specified in the eff - the normal damage of the DD.spl with the target '1- self', to bypass resisting effects by the MI. However it seems to bypass MR as well...

 

PS perhaps lengthening the chain would make it MRable. Instead of doing damage the spell should apply yet another spell or effect as a subject of bypassing MR. Then the second spell would deal the damage.

[Icendoan]

I suppose it could remove and reapply the Mirror Image spell, but then you would have to check for Mirror Image, which I don't think spells can do.

 

It would be scripting, if a simple one, once you find the mechanic to bypass it.

 

Icen

[Demivrgvs]

Mirror Image vs. AoE spells

Well, an unfair solution would be to make it hurt when it hits- Make the area effects damage distributed so it the levels you have take down the mirror images easily. For example Fireball; the maximum damage is now: 10d6, but it could be corrected so it hits with 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+ 10*(0-9). So the target is actually hit with 11 damage producing missiles, not by one large one.

I'm quite sure this wouldn't do anything, damage headers have nothing to do with "how many hits" the character takes, else a vanilla's Fire Arrow would destroy all images with its 3-15 damage headers (1d6 piercing/5 levels + 1d6 fire no save/5 levels + 1d6 fire save/5 levels).

 

Mirror Image effect is hardcoded, and I currently have no idea of a possible solution to this problem.

Mirror Image - add to it the "State: Set IDS State [72]" (which works with the 'duration" timing) to alter the caster's SPECIFIC (which appears to be mostly unused in the game)

 

DD thing - add the 177 to affect the SPECIFIC from the MI.

The eff itself is the "Spell: Cast Spell (at Creature) [146]".

Finally, the spell specified in the eff - the normal damage of the DD.spl with the target '1- self', to bypass resisting effects by the MI. However it seems to bypass MR as well...

This is very interesting, but I fear it is more complicated than it seems, and surely it would be hugely time consuming, as I would have to create many .spl files for each spell because the damage applied via EFF has to take into account caster level.

"State: Set IDS State [72]" may create some other issues itself: for example it's not tied to the caster effectively being protected by MI, and thus a character who lost all his mirrored image would still has his SPECIFIC set to cast EFF on himself, effectively causing an AoE spell to deal double damage.

 

I suppose it could remove and reapply the Mirror Image spell, but then you would have to check for Mirror Image, which I don't think spells can do.

 

It would be scripting, if a simple one, once you find the mechanic to bypass it.

I think there's no way to do this. Even if doable via script it would cause instances in which a character protected by MI isn't effectively protected for a few instants leaving him defenceless.

[Ardanis]

"State: Set IDS State [72]" may create some other issues itself: for example it's not tied to the caster effectively being protected by MI, and thus a character who lost all his mirrored image would still has his SPECIFIC set to cast EFF on himself, effectively causing an AoE spell to deal double damage.

I did feel like I've missed something important. Turns out to be this one.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Mirror Image vs. AoE spells

Well, an unfair solution would be to make it hurt when it hits- Make the area effects damage distributed so it the levels you have take down the mirror images easily. For example Fireball; the maximum damage is now: 10d6, but it could be corrected so it hits with 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+ 10*(0-5 ). So the target is actually hit with 11 damage producing missiles, not by one large one.

I'm quite sure this wouldn't do anything, damage headers have nothing to do with "how many hits" the character takes, else a vanilla's Fire Arrow would destroy all images with its 3-15 damage headers (1d6 piercing/5 levels + 1d6 fire no save/5 levels + 1d6 fire save/5 levels).

Hmm, read it again, I said: 11 damage producing missiles(or explosions actually, on maximum level). It's alike the magic missile or Fire Arrow(or it should in later levels as it makes 1 missile/every 5 caster levels beyond the 5...).

 

So the Fireball remake would make be actually 1d1 area effect missiles/level(no save) and an area effect missile that does +0-2/level with no safe +0-3(safe vs. breath to all damage)/level, and the max level is 10.

[Demivrgvs]

I used again this topic because "it's where all started" and because Plans for Future Release one has become really too extensive to be followed.

 

Nature's Beauty

I've never understood the "so pretty you'll go blind" thing as anything more than an exaggeration of "as radiant as the sun" (in itself an obvious hyperbole) to the point of absurdity. Which is a long-winded way of saying that I've always thought it was stupid. I wasn't exactly going for Mass Charm (that should be a Level 7 Enchantment spell), but more the idea that everybody basically stops fighting to check out the gorgeous babe, and some of them decide to defend her, even if that would technically involve switching sides. Maybe instead of the Save vs. Charm, it should have a 33% chance of Charming enemy creatures, no Save.

Actually Mass Charm is an unimplemented 8th level Enchantment spell, but this may just as well be an illusion based version of it available only to druids. I don't see much difference betwenn a small AoE Mass Charm and what you're suggesting, and I think a simple charm effect would be fine.

 

That being said there are two ways to do this spell:

1) the illusion may last 10 rounds and each round those near the caster may be affected for a short duration (as you proposed)

2) the illusion may last only an instant (as it currently work) and the charm effect would last 10 rounds

 

From an aesthetic point of view I prefer your suggestion, but we care the most about gameplay than the latter solution would be much better, as I really don't know how a 1-2 round charm effect would work (it causes a lot of mess imo). Allowing the charm effect to last something like 5 rounds and take place each round for x rounds is too much imo, as it would be more effective than a supposed 8th level Mass Charm.

 

Furthermore, I think we should make the spell useless against certains enemies. Nymph's sight should affect only humans and though we could assume Nature's Beauty is a more powerful version, it still shouldn't affects beings like undead or ozee creatures.

Oh yeah, I forgot that to mention that part. Nature's Beauty should not affect creatures who are Blind, or who do not reproduce sexually (Undead, Golems, Slimes, Illithids, & probably Myconids). As for its further effectiveness, the issue is whether the spell really changes the caster's actual appearance, or instead causes them to take on the specific ideal of beauty of the individual victim's mind. If the former, it would only work on Humans, Half-Elves, & Elves, but if the spell works in the latter method, it would affect just about any creature not excluded above--leaving everything from Gibberlings to Dragons as potential victims. Since the spell is listed as Illusion rather than Alteration, I would say that the latter path is the more correct one.

I do think this spell works as an illusion spell, and thus it should affect most creatures. The ones we already mentioned shouldn't be affected (Undead, Golems, Slimes, Illithids, & probably Myconids), let me know if we miss anything.

[Salk]

In my vision, I imagine people affected by Nature's Beauty to just drop their weapons and stand still, doing nothing (I would suggest paralysis).

 

The spell's parameters (saves, duration, ecc.) can be discussed.

[Demivrgvs]

In my vision, I imagine people affected by Nature's Beauty to just drop their weapons and stand still, doing nothing (I would suggest paralysis).

Well, paralysis is either a hold or a stun effect, and considering the former is one of the most common immunity I would have to opt for stun, which is fine considering that one of the Nymph unimplemented abilities is Stunning Glance, but wouldn't it be just a druid version of Symbol of Stunning?

 

And speaking of Symbols, should I change them to affect only enemies like Gliph of Warding and Fire Trap already does?

[Raj]

And speaking of Symbols, should I change them to affect only enemies like Gliph of Warding and Fire Trap already does?

 

Yes, because vanilla AI damages his allies more than the player, scs2 don't use them so there're no issues, and players will be spared from aiming stress.

 

Btw, about symbols, could you answer to this plz?:

 

Trying to get rid of Symbol of Weakness I used the Limited Wish option 'I want my party to be healed' and the effects vanished, but the portrait disease icon stayed forever. That spell is a pain to remove if you are soloing or not using clerics btw, can you let Heal get rid of it or make it last 8 hours instead of being permanent?

[Salk]

In my vision, I imagine people affected by Nature's Beauty to just drop their weapons and stand still, doing nothing (I would suggest paralysis).

Well, paralysis is either a hold or a stun effect, and considering the former is one of the most common immunity I would have to opt for stun, which is fine considering that one of the Nymph unimplemented abilities is Stunning Glance, but wouldn't it be just a druid version of Symbol of Stunning?

 

It would have practically the same effects but the means to have them will be different.

 

Not to mention that I am suggesting this as "base" for Nature's Beauty but things could be tweaked and adjusted further to make it more unique.

 

But I do think the stunning effect (even considering that Stunning Glance would re-enter from the back door) and the dropping of the weapon is the way to go.

 

My suggestion is also this: after the stunning effect and the dropping of weapon effect are finished, I suggest to change the status of the affected characters from hostile to neutral (not friendly) for few more rounds (simulating a short period of time of disorientation). After that, they would pick up their weapons and start fighting again.

 

Would it be possible?

[Raj]

Would it be possible?

no

[Demivrgvs]

And speaking of Symbols, should I change them to affect only enemies like Gliph of Warding and Fire Trap already does?

 

Yes, because vanilla AI damages his allies more than the player, scs2 don't use them so there're no issues, and players will be spared from aiming stress.

Vanilla's liches would be more effective, and DavidW may think to use Symbols again if we make them appealing. He just stated that he'd like to add SR's new offensive possibilities to his AI in the future.

 

Btw, about symbols, could you answer to this plz?:

 

Trying to get rid of Symbol of Weakness I used the Limited Wish option 'I want my party to be healed' and the effects vanished, but the portrait disease icon stayed forever. That spell is a pain to remove if you are soloing or not using clerics btw, can you let Heal get rid of it or make it last 8 hours instead of being permanent?

The portrait issue may be a missing "remove icon" opcode in the Limited Wish's effect, as I haven't worked neither on Limited Wish nor on Wish. The best feature of the spell imo is exactly that it forces players to use Cure Disease imo. I already reduced the duration to 8 hours for Blindness and Deafness, and I can do it here too, but what would be the point of having Cure Disease if resting is as effective as up to 6x Cure Disease?

 

 

Well, paralysis is either a hold or a stun effect, and considering the former is one of the most common immunity I would have to opt for stun, which is fine considering that one of the Nymph unimplemented abilities is Stunning Glance, but wouldn't it be just a druid version of Symbol of Stunning?

It would have practically the same effects but the means to have them will be different.

 

Not to mention that I am suggesting this as "base" for Nature's Beauty but things could be tweaked and adjusted further to make it more unique.

 

But I do think the stunning effect (even considering that Stunning Glance would re-enter from the back door) and the dropping of the weapon is the way to go.

I would never implement "drop weapon" opcode again, I removed it on purpose from all fear effects as it seriously ruined the AI and it was only annoying against players. Players can just retrieve the dropped equipment (and sometimes an item could be permanently lost because accidentaly forgot on the ground) while the AI would ignore it and fight with fists.

 

My suggestion is also this: after the stunning effect and the dropping of weapon effect are finished, I suggest to change the status of the affected characters from hostile to neutral (not friendly) for few more rounds (simulating a short period of time of disorientation). After that, they would pick up their weapons and start fighting again.

 

Would it be possible?

It may be possible (or not), but anyway I'm not looking for too much trouble at the moment as V3 is already taking much more than I expected and I'd like to finish it on these holydays.

[Salk]

I would never implement "drop weapon" opcode again, I removed it on purpose from all fear effects as it seriously ruined the AI and it was only annoying against players. Players can just retrieve the dropped equipment (and sometimes an item could be permanently lost because accidentaly forgot on the ground) while the AI would ignore it and fight with fists.

 

I understand the problem but it is a real shame. The drop weapon is going to remain unused and I cannot help but think we are deliberately removing one original effect from the game, reducing the variations alternatives (not so many) of one unit.

[Raj]

The portrait issue may be a missing "remove icon" opcode in the Limited Wish's effect, as I haven't worked neither on Limited Wish nor on Wish. The best feature of the spell imo is exactly that it forces players to use Cure Disease imo. I already reduced the duration to 8 hours for Blindness and Deafness, and I can do it here too, but what would be the point of having Cure Disease if resting is as effective as up to 6x Cure Disease?

 

Temples don't remove it so if you fail a single save and you are playing without a cleric you are screwed the whole game. No other spell forces you to play this way.

 

Remove Disease is already effective casted mid-fight against blind spells and if you don't want to walk encumbered after a symbol of weakness till you reach a inn or a safe spot, still worth memorize one or two.